Hefe transparent and watery

[Sadu]

Hey everyone,

I'm in for 3 all grain brews so new to the hobby but learning heaps and getting some confidence in my process. First 2 batches (APA and blonde ale) are insanely good, far better than what I expected :rockin:

That said, my 3rd AG batch, German hefeweizen, I'm not so sure about. It's due for bottling in 2 days and I have some concerns.

I brewed this with a friend of mine (who has done a bunch of extract brewing in the past) says he always has trouble with hefes, so this is kinda a nemesis for him. Plus I lived a while in Germany and know and love a good Paulaner or Franzikaner. This is one style I really want to nail.

For yeast we went with WB-06 dry yeast. I read lots of mixed reviews about it, some people love it, some hate it, I figured I'd never know if I don't try plus budget doesn't stretch to a vial of liquid for every batch. I now know about yeast harvesting, didn't back then when this got brewed.

OG 1.046, a bit under my target. FG 1.009, also a bit under. I did a protein rest for 20 mins then 40 mins mash, I probably should have made that 20+60. Boiled for 90.

After a week in the fermenter at 18c it was approaching FG, no real banana or clove but wheaty yeasty taste and nice cloudiness. Left it another 2 weeks in primary, no racking to secondary. Took a sample from the top today and it was clear as a lager . This was not what I was aiming for. Tasted and the yeastyness that you expect in a hefe was gone, it tastes very clean and non-descript, maybe a bit of clove in there maybe. Again, not what I was aiming for at all.

I think the problem lies with temperatures AFTER the primary fermentation was complete. See I needed the temp controller for the next batch so the hefe got 1 week or so at exactly 18c (65f) and after that it's been getting real cold and I think the temps in the room have cold-crashed the beer. Probably the beer has got down to 8-10c or so and hasn't been able to get back up again. So the secondary phase has kinda been happening at lager temps.

I read somewhere that temp control wasn't so important after the primary fermentation was done, but perhaps I took that too literally.

So with that lesson learned, is this fixable? Can I warm it up to say 21c / 72f and give it a bit of a swirl, get some yeast back into suspension? Treat it nice for a couple of days before bottling? Or is that yeast just going to drop out again once bottled?

If it's too late then lesson learned, a clear/clean hefe isn't the worst thing in the world but a bit more flavour would be nice. It's definitely drinkable, just the other 2 batches were so totally marvellous I guess I got my hopes up a bit.

 

[RM-MN]

Hefe's are supposed to have yeast suspended in them. When you had reached FG and verified it, you should have bottled it, perhaps at day 9 or 10. 3 weeks in the fermenter is great for many ales as it lets the yeast settle out. Hefe's need the yeast so you can't let them sit so long or your yeast will settle out, especially if it is too cold.

Once the yeast has settled it is difficult to get it back into suspension as it has flocculated, clumped together. If you swirl your primary fermenter you will get all the trub mixed in, hops, break material, and yeast. i think your best bet will be to drink this batch as is and make a new batch that is bottled as soon as it hits verified FG.

 

[Sadu]

OK thanks very much for the reply. I was torn about how long to leave it in the fermenter, I could have gone either way. I read people saying that hefes are best young and others saying that 3 weeks in primary is a pretty great amount of time for most ales and I figured it would be fine. Just in this case clarity was not what I was after, so lesson learned. Will have another go next month.

 

[JonM]

What was the rest of the recipe? Hefeweizens are usually 50-70% wheat, which makes it cloudy as heck and wheat is really important to the overall flavor profile.

 

[Sadu]

23L/6G batch. Grain bill is 46% wheat, 46% pils, 8% toffee malt. 40g hallertau hersbrucker and 3g cascade for bittering at start of boil (AAs on the hallertau couldn't quite get there alone). WB-06 dry yeast, rehydrated + aerated.

All the malt came from one local manufacturer (Gladfield in New Zealand), I took that grain bill from their website and figured they know their malts better than anyone - basically ran with their suggestion. But yes, I did think the amount of wheat was a bit low compared with other recipes. Possibly having less wheat and more pils has contributed to the clarity?

 

[jjeffers09]

I think flaked wheat is necessary in any wheat beer. You will iron it out on the next recipe. Hefeweizens are never perfect on the first go, not in my opinion. If I am wrong, then I am ready to talk to someone who took a blue ribbon on their first hefe... pm me

**Edit - except Krystalweizen, maybe no flaked wheat in that filtered wheat beer.

 

[Squidmanoo7]

My Hefe turned tart as heck any ideas on why?

 

[brandonnys]

Start a new thread and post your recipe and details, Squid.

 

[WrQth]

My Hefe turned tart as heck any ideas on why?

Infection?

 

[Squidmanoo7]

Well I used northern Brewer recipe kit n I used wyeast Hefeweizen yeast fermention was bout 74 degrees Fahrenheit......og/fg unknown forget to do it all the time....bad habits

 

[Sadu]

So, 5 days in the bottle and I thought I better quality-check the hefe.

Colour has darkened, no longer transparent (could just be chill haze, but same effect), tastes pretty decent actually. Should get better if it keeps carbonating from here.

It's still definitely on the watery side, I'm going to put that down to being 46% wheat, plus getting poor efficinecy from the mash and both the OG and FG were 2 points under target.

 

[jjeffers09]

Better luck next time. I would def change up the recipe IMO

 

[sabotenfighter]

My Hefe turned tart as heck any ideas on why?

If you didn't get your answers in the another thread, it could be due to wheat malt generally lending to a bit of tartness in large quantities. Not off style by any means, unless its like lemony mouth puckering sour.

I think flaked wheat is necessary in any wheat beer. You will iron it out on the next recipe. Hefeweizens are never perfect on the first go, not in my opinion. If I am wrong, then I am ready to talk to someone who took a blue ribbon on their first hefe... pm me

**Edit - except Krystalweizen, maybe no flaked wheat in that filtered wheat beer.

Nope, hefeweizens should be just 2-row and malted wheat. Little crystal doesn't hurt, but isn't necessary. The cloudyness comes purely from the yeast, not from any voodoo or from break material or anything.

On the topic of yeast, next time, try a liquid yeast and/or open ferment. WB tends to floc out and generally have less character than a good liquid like WLP300.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Nope, hefeweizens should be just 2-row and malted wheat. Little crystal doesn't hurt, but isn't necessary. The cloudyness comes purely from the yeast, not from any voodoo or from break material or anything.

On the topic of yeast, next time, try a liquid yeast and/or open ferment. WB tends to floc out and generally have less character than a good liquid like WLP300.

This. Except that the cloudiness is from wheat (high protein) and yeast.

Unmalted wheat is for witbiers, hefeweizens use malted wheat.
WB06 is WAY cleaner than liquid yeasts. IMO, no others come close to WY3068. Open ferments are worth trying as well, but the yeast strain will make a big difference.

Don't do a protein rest for a hef - you don't want to break down the proteins that cause cloudiness.

An acid rest at 42C is great for 'cloviness' but also (IME) increases tartness.

Mash high - I go 42/62/72 (celcius). Only stop for 20mins at 62 for some fermentability, then a longer rest at 72 for dextrins. The tartness of the wheat will dominate if you don't leave enough body.

As with most German beers, the process is as important as (or more than) the recipe. A fairly standard recipe is 60%wheat malt, 40%pils to 1.050, with a single bittering hop addition. Using different mash and ferment schedules with this recipe will result in vastly different beers.

Sorry for the ramble...I love a good hef!