Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

CornyKegs 728
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Has someone actually brewed this recipe? What were the results? Also, I was thinking of brewing this recipe with the Vermont ale yeast from The Yeast Bay and letting the beer sit on 10lb of mangoes for 14 days along with the dry hopping hops. The sugars from the mangoes should restart fermentation for a couple of days. How would this effect dry hopping? Any thoughts on adding mangoes?
 
mell_man79 said:
Has someone actually brewed this recipe? What were the results?
Click to expand...

Given the depth/length of this thread I imagine lots of folks have brewed it :)
I've done four batches and until I get tired of it it owns a tap in my keezer.

Also, I was thinking of brewing this recipe with the Vermont ale yeast from The Yeast Bay and letting the beer sit on 10lb of mangoes for 14 days along with the dry hopping hops. The sugars from the mangoes should restart fermentation for a couple of days. How would this effect dry hopping? Any thoughts on adding mangoes?
Click to expand...

Well, it'd be a different beer, but perhaps a tasty divergence from the recipe. That allowed, I wouldn't be all that keen about extending the time in the fermentor by a couple of weeks while the hop characters attenuate. Perhaps you can compress the time span?

Cheers!
 
Beerdrinker85 said:
Just got some TYB Vermont ale and got everything except comet. Do I need to switch it for Amarillo?

I am heading for no boil hops and no flameout hops as stated up there.


Thanks
Click to expand...

Kimmich confirmed that Heady Topper does, in fact, contain Amarillo.

Confirms it at around 25 seconds into the video:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_mg3r2O8w[/ame]
 
For you VT Heady lovers, if I head to the brewery on a Friday at maybe 2-3 PM, will there be any HT left to buy, or any other beers for that matter? I won't be able to get there until around that time from NY. I can't wait to taste it again and bring some back so I can compare with my own attempts.
 
wow, hd a couple heady toppers and focal bangers last night again for the first time in a few years. I have a few observations. They were very bitter compared with mu memory of them. They were very hazy but not murky. They had a fair amount of sweetness or perception of sweetness. They had the most intense, resinous hop flavor I've had for a long time! Very intense flavor and richness.
 
Couple of questions about the recipe given the info Kimmich shares in this video at 59m12s (embedded video might not start playing at correct time, when you see the question subtitled about hops thats the right part): [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfySDN2mF0&feature=youtu.be&t=59m12s[/ame]

He says he "does not boil hops in his kettle" (62m13s), so why does the recipe have 5min additions?

He says he chills immediately after whirl-pooling (60m27s), specifically he says he whirl-pools, adds hops, lid on, then after they "drop", he chills immediately and as fast as possible. Yet why does the recipe have steeping additions? Does anyone know how long roughly it should take after whirl-pool until the hops drop?

Thanks
 
Whirlpooling and cooling on commercial scales is very different to doing it in homebrew scales. E.g. most English brewers don't do late kettle additions, just hopback/whirlpool. But to get similar results, homebrewers need to do 15, 10, 5 or flame out additions, because our small batches use hops differently, and cool much faster/differently.

However, whirlpooling until the hops drop sounds exactly like our 10-20min steeped additions to me.
 
Agreed, mechanics of a commercial vessel are different than most homebrewing systems. There will even be differences in our systems for hop utilization and your 5 minute addition may be a 10 minute or flameout addition for me.
 
Kimmich says, if he could cool his beer as fast then he would. Since pro brewers are doing barrels of beer, it takes 30-45 min for a pro brewer to whirlpool and drop the hops/trub and cool down their beer. As homebrewers we try and mimic this by doing a hop steep, at lower temperatures, then cool the wort down. If a pro brewer had the capability todo a hop steep, then cool the wort down in 10min then they would.
 
Too many discrepancies in this recipe for me to get behind. Kimmich said he doesn't boil hops, dry hops max 4-5 days (this has 10 days), doesn't split dry hops (this splits twice), dry hops 4oz (this has 5.5oz). This particular hop combo is interesting though, and the fact there are less hops overall in this that other recipes and Kimmich said he doesn't use "a ton" of hops. If anyone else is interested in this kind of stuff I'd recommend searching the hundreds of pages for his last name to find some good posts.
 
the process is not going to be the same. I'm not sure why you would assume as such. as homebrewers, the closest we will get is getting the malt and hop bills correct, and then adjusting for the differences in extraction, pressure, oxidation, etc
 
malhal said:
Too many discrepancies in this recipe for me to get behind. Kimmich said he doesn't boil hops, dry hops max 4-5 days (this has 10 days), doesn't split dry hops (this splits twice), dry hops 4oz (this has 5.5oz). This particular hop combo is interesting though, and the fact there are less hops overall in this that other recipes and Kimmich said he doesn't use "a ton" of hops. If anyone else is interested in this kind of stuff I'd recommend searching the hundreds of pages for his last name to find some good posts.
Click to expand...


Well, I read every single post in this thread and to me, post #2967 was the best of all.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6791071&postcount=2967

The bobbrews process is what I do now when I want to clone this beer on a homebrew scale. You should really give it a try.

Cheers
 
I'm about to give bobbrews recipe a try this coming weekend. Just double checking that the preferred water profile is something like the Burton profile in Bru'n right?

Starting with 8 gallons of distilled for biab I worked out the following:
23.2g Gypsum
.8g CaCl
12g Epsom
1g Canning Salt
4.8g Chalk
2.4ml Lactic Acid

This gets me a pH of 5.4 hopefully and the following water specs:
251 Calcium
39 Magnesium
12 Sodium
582 Sulfate
36 Chloride
138 Bicarbonate

Seems like a ton, but I am rather new to the water chemistry aspect.
 
582 sulfate is pretty high if you are new to water chemistry.
I'd say try the pale ale profile in bru'n water first. It's a good starting point for IPA at around 300 ppm Sulfate.

Edit: ph 5.3-5.4 is good for this recipe.
 
Thinking of brewing the recipe from page 1.
On my beersmith the OG is showing up as 1.059 and final abv as 6.8%
Anyone else experienced this?
 
Quick question: I'm going to be brewing this and using Distilled water for the first time. It's not my preference, but there is construction on the street and the city has me on temporary water through a hose in the street that tastes rubbery.

I regularly adjust my water, usually with just Gypsum and Calc Chloride and Lactic Acid to the target PH. Will I be okay with distilled (all I can get close to me) given that it has 0 Sodium, Mg, etc. . .?

My plan was to add as much Gypsum as I can handle without panicking, and then some Calcium Chloride, and Lactic Acid to get the PH where I need it. I don't need to do Campden tablets with distilled, right?

Thanks!
 
jerkbag said:
Quick question: I'm going to be brewing this and using Distilled water for the first time. It's not my preference, but there is construction on the street and the city has me on temporary water through a hose in the street that tastes rubbery.

I regularly adjust my water, usually with just Gypsum and Calc Chloride and Lactic Acid to the target PH. Will I be okay with distilled (all I can get close to me) given that it has 0 Sodium, Mg, etc. . .?

My plan was to add as much Gypsum as I can handle without panicking, and then some Calcium Chloride, and Lactic Acid to get the PH where I need it. I don't need to do Campden tablets with distilled, right?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Good call on not using your municipal hose water!

Distilled water should be chlorine/chloramine free, but I do remember someone getting persistent bandaid off flavors. Well and behold, it was chlorinated, possibly for longer shelf life. You can always try to smell and taste it, especially when opening the container, or for all security, add a pinch of K-meta, it won't harm anything, and will remove 100% if there's any in there.

RO water from one of those machines in a Walmart or local supermarket may be cheaper (~$0.39 a gallon), bring your own jugs. Unless the system is broken or needs service (check the last service date), it should be chlorine free. A TDS meter will tell you how pure it is.

Add some of your mineral additions (and acid) to the mash water, but you can simply sparge with RO/distilled water, without adding any minerals or acid. If you need more minerals (for HT you do) add the balance to the boil kettle, while lautering. Gypsum dissolves better in cooler water.
 
IslandLizard said:
Good call on not using your municipal hose water!

Distilled water should be chlorine/chloramine free, but I do remember someone getting persistent bandaid off flavors. Well and behold, it was chlorinated, possibly for longer shelf life. You can always try to smell and taste it, especially when opening the container, or for all security, add a pinch of K-meta, it won't harm anything, and will remove 100% if there's any in there.

RO water from one of those machines in a Walmart or local supermarket may be cheaper (~$0.39 a gallon), bring your own jugs. Unless the system is broken or needs service (check the last service date), it should be chlorine free. A TDS meter will tell you how pure it is.

Add some of your mineral additions (and acid) to the mash water, but you can simply sparge with RO/distilled water, without adding any minerals or acid. If you need more minerals (for HT you do) add the balance to the boil kettle, while lautering. Gypsum dissolves better in cooler water.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! Yeah my main concern was if it's okay that there is 0 mg and 0 Sodium, but it looks to me that those minerals don't play a role in mashing. I suppose some campden won't hurt in case there is chlorine.

I normally add minerals + acid to mash water, and minerals only to sparge. I think for this one enough Gypsum is required that I will add Gypsum to desired PH, no acid required, and then rest of Gypsum in the boil kettle.

Thanks again!
 
jerkbag said:
Thanks for the info! Yeah my main concern was if it's okay that there is 0 mg and 0 Sodium, but it looks to me that those minerals don't play a role in mashing. I suppose some campden won't hurt in case there is chlorine.

I normally add minerals + acid to mash water, and minerals only to sparge. I think for this one enough Gypsum is required that I will add Gypsum to desired PH, no acid required, and then rest of Gypsum in the boil kettle.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Are you using a water/mash calculator? Like Bru'nwater or MashMadeEasy? Since it's a light color beer, I'm pretty sure you'll need to add some acid to the mash water, even when using distilled/RO with 0 alkalinity.

There's plenty of Mg added from the malt, no real need to add more. A dash of (kosher) salt will take care of any Na if you think you'd need it. I'm not familiar with the recipe and modifications brewers have come up with, perhaps add some (Calcium) Chloride too, say around 50 ppm?
 
IslandLizard said:
Are you using a water/mash calculator? Like Bru'nwater or MashMadeEasy? Since it's a light color beer, I'm pretty sure you'll need to add some acid to the mash water, even when using distilled/RO with 0 alkalinity.

There's plenty of Mg added from the malt, no real need to add more. A dash of (kosher) salt will take care of any Na if you think you'd need it. I'm not familiar with the recipe and modifications brewers have come up with, perhaps add some (Calcium) Chloride too, say around 50 ppm?
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yup I am adding Calcium Chloride as well. I use Bru'nWater. Unless I am missing something, the Gypsum additions are so monstrous (people are talking here of ~20g for 6 Gallons) that adding the full amount will actually make the mash PH too low according to Bru'nWater. So I think I will just add enough Gypsum to lower Mash PH to what I need, and then add any extra (if I have the nerve) the the kettle.

Also -- I think this is because I am starting out with Distilled. It's possible reg water might be able to handle all the Gypsum and still require a bit of Acid. With distilled water the full amount of Gypsum puts the PH into the 4s.
 
jerkbag said:
Thanks! Yup I am adding Calcium Chloride as well. I use Bru'nWater. Unless I am missing something, the Gypsum additions are so monstrous (people are talking here of ~20g for 6 Gallons) that adding the full amount will actually make the mash PH too low according to Bru'nWater. So I think I will just add enough Gypsum to lower Mash PH to what I need, and then add any extra (if I have the nerve) the the kettle.

Also -- I think this is because I am starting out with Distilled. It's possible reg water might be able to handle all the Gypsum and still require a bit of Acid. With distilled water the full amount of Gypsum puts the PH into the 4s.
Click to expand...

I just read that, 20gr/6 gallons does sound monstrous! But if that's indeed what it takes to get closer to a HT, then so be it.

You're right, don't add all of it to the mash, just enough to get to the correct mash pH, then the rest to the boil kettle. For the latter, I would dissolve it in some cold/luke warm water/wort first, then add. Or add even less to the mash, say up to 100-200 ppm, plus some acid, if needed, to get to your mash pH.

I haven't read the whole thread or even most of the last few 400 posts, but I'm thinking wouldn't it be better to add the balance of that huge dose of gypsum to the chilled wort instead of boiling it for an hour?
 
TheHairyHop said:
adding a solid to a liquid is much easier when hot. you'd have to perhaps pre-dissolve it
Click to expand...



IIRC, gypsum actually dissolves more easily in cool water. I’ve never attempted to add it directly to wort though. Pre-fermentation you could probably add it right in stir it up since you want to oxygenate it anyways.
 
Also, 20 grams seems extreme to me - I think people got carried away when there was a photo of a brew sheet that got out that showed 750ppm hardness. People started assuming this was their treated water target, but it’s more likely to be the targeted concentration for the finished beer. Something around 250-300ppm seems like a more reasonable target for the contribution from the water additions.
 
IslandLizard said:
I just read that, 20gr/6 gallons does sound monstrous! But if that's indeed what it takes to get closer to a HT, then so be it.

You're right, don't add all of it to the mash, just enough to get to the correct mash pH, then the rest to the boil kettle. For the latter, I would dissolve it in some cold/luke warm water/wort first, then add. Or add even less to the mash, say up to 100-200 ppm, plus some acid, if needed, to get to your mash pH.

I haven't read the whole thread or even most of the last few 400 posts, but I'm thinking wouldn't it be better to add the balance of that huge dose of gypsum to the chilled wort instead of boiling it for an hour?
Click to expand...

Yeah adding to chilled wort might be a good idea. In any case, I think I am just going to add enough Gypsum to get the mash PH without acid (which is still a ton) and then call it a day.

One question: when you treat your mash + sparge water, does your pre-boil wort end up with concentrated amounts of minerals? Or when the grain absorbs water does it absorb the minerals as well as they are dissolved?

i.e. does treating mash + sparge to certain ppm = pre-boil wort with same ppm?
 
Here's the link to a BYO article that has a really good analysis of the mineral profile of the brewing water and finished beer (including measurements for a Heady sample):

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3590-minerals-profile-in-the-glass

If you read through this, you'll see why targeting a 200-250ppm sulfate concentration for your brewing water for this beer (somewhere around 8g for a 5G batch) makes a lot more sense than using 20g and targeting 750ppm.

jerkbag said:
One question: when you treat your mash + sparge water, does your pre-boil wort end up with concentrated amounts of minerals? Or when the grain absorbs water does it absorb the minerals as well as they are dissolved?

i.e. does treating mash + sparge to certain ppm = pre-boil wort with same ppm?
Click to expand...

The grain adds much higher amounts of minerals than it absorbs - there's no accurate method for predicting the amount of minerals added by the grain that end up in the pre-boiled wort that I'm aware of, though you can get a rough idea from the same article I linked above. Most water profiles you see are for the water, not the wort though, so you can generally take a recommended profile for the style of beer you're brewing and make adjustments on future brews based on the result. I've also had good results adding NaCl post fermentation to round out an amber I brewed that was a little too dry/bitter.
 
cheesebach said:
Here's the link to a BYO article that has a really good analysis of the mineral profile of the brewing water and finished beer (including measurements for a Heady sample):

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3590-minerals-profile-in-the-glass

If you read through this, you'll see why targeting a 200-250ppm sulfate concentration for your brewing water for this beer (somewhere around 8g for a 5G batch) makes a lot more sense than using 20g and targeting 750ppm.



The grain adds much higher amounts of minerals than it absorbs - there's no accurate method for predicting the amount of minerals added by the grain that end up in the pre-boiled wort that I'm aware of, though you can get a rough idea from the same article I linked above. Most water profiles you see are for the water, not the wort though, so you can generally take a recommended profile for the style of beer you're brewing and make adjustments on future brews based on the result. I've also had good results adding NaCl post fermentation to round out an amber I brewed that was a little too dry/bitter.
Click to expand...

Thanks -- that link is a great resource. I think I'll go for a more normal ~200 ppm IPA-type sulfate for this first crack at it and take it from there.
 
jerkbag said:
Yeah adding to chilled wort might be a good idea. In any case, I think I am just going to add enough Gypsum to get the mash PH without acid (which is still a ton) and then call it a day.

One question: when you treat your mash + sparge water, does your pre-boil wort end up with concentrated amounts of minerals? Or when the grain absorbs water does it absorb the minerals as well as they are dissolved?

i.e. does treating mash + sparge to certain ppm = pre-boil wort with same ppm?
Click to expand...

Or aim for a 200-250 ppm addition total in the boil. You can always add more to a glass of beer after pouring, if you want to experiment with what it does to your palate. Make a small bit of gypsum solution and use a dropper/pipet.

Good sparging and lautering should rinse out most of the sugars and minerals from the grist, so they'll all end up in your kettle, except for a small amount that remains trapped in the wet grains.

The grist also adds some minerals of its own, such as Ca, Mg, Cl, SO4, PO4, oxalates, etc. They get rinsed out the same way, and end up in the kettle, again, with a little left behind in the wet grains.

Yes, since we use ppm, everything remains proportional. Now you could treat your sparge water with different mineral rates from the mash water if you want, it just makes calculations a little more complex, but you should know quite well how much ends up in your wort and beer eventually.

Now the boil changes ratios, not only does it concentrate the sugars, it also concentrates the minerals at the same rate. So 200 ppm preboil may end up as 220-240 ppm in the fermentor, depending on how much water has boiled off (e.g., 10-20%).
 
Planning on brewing this at weekend.
Just not to sure about water additions as I want it spot on.
Anyone recommend what additions I should add please as i`m not to sure about bru n water
thanks

Ive attached my water profile.
Shooting for a Ph of around 5.2

water-1.jpg


water-2.jpg
 

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