Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

Yakima 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Don't know why you guys are having attenuation issues with Conan. I have used both Conan from a can of Heady Topper and GigaYeast. From my experience it attenuates way better than 05 or any of the standard clean yeasts including WLP090 (San Diego Super Yeast - the fastest and highest attenuating of the West Coast ale yeasts.) In fact the only two yeasts I have used that attenuate better than Conan are WLP099 (Super High Gravity Ale Yeast) and WLP045 (Scotch Whisky Yeast.)
 
ianmatth said:
Don't know why you guys are having attenuation issues with Conan. I have used both Conan from a can of Heady Topper and GigaYeast. From my experience it attenuates way better than 05 or any of the standard clean yeasts including WLP090 (San Diego Super Yeast - the fastest and highest attenuating of the West Coast ale yeasts.) In fact the only two yeasts I have used that attenuate better than Conan are WLP099 (Super High Gravity Ale Yeast) and WLP045 (Scotch Whisky Yeast.)
Click to expand...


Probably b/c you're a super awesome Brewer
 
ianmatth said:
Don't know why you guys are having attenuation issues with Conan. I have used both Conan from a can of Heady Topper and GigaYeast. From my experience it attenuates way better than 05 or any of the standard clean yeasts including WLP090 (San Diego Super Yeast - the fastest and highest attenuating of the West Coast ale yeasts.) In fact the only two yeasts I have used that attenuate better than Conan are WLP099 (Super High Gravity Ale Yeast) and WLP045 (Scotch Whisky Yeast.)
Click to expand...


Just curious, what kind of fermentation vessel do you use?
 
I use a Big Mouth Bubbler currently, although I will be purchasing a Ss Brew Bucket and chest freezer in the next month. I also pitch at 1.0, but I will probably change this in the future as I heard the Alchemist pitches lower. Anyway, this is my experience, and I actually did a head to head HT clone using WLP090 and Conan. WLP090 finished at 1.014, Conan finished at 1.011. I have never had a HT clone finish less than 1.011, and I don't use sugar because when I used sugar the first I did the clone it finished at 1.005.

jammin said:
Probably b/c you're a super awesome Brewer
Click to expand...

I must be doing something right. Do you think it's a good idea to finish this clone with US-05? If so, why? Also, do you have any experiments comparing Conan attenuation to US-05? Maybe you can run an experiment. You can even assume the Safale claim of 6 billion cells per gram and pitch 3 times as much of it as you normally would.
 
Had great success last night brewing the Off the Topper clone from Northern Brewer. The OG came out at .080 and was my best efficiency so far. Had to shake the yeast bottle for an hour it seemed to get it to mix. My past fermentations started within 12 hours. However this one is taking a long time and seems stuck. I have mixed it twice to get more aeration. Lots of foam from the hops. Time will tell. I included the notes for anyone to duplicate. The sacch rest came out dead on 151 F using 4.8 gal at 165 F with a 10 gal home depot water cooler. Ambient temp, and grain was at 70 Deg F.

HTCinstructions.jpg


HTCFerm.jpg
 
SlamDunkel - I had a very similar situation, higher than anticipated gravity and everything else came together as it should.

My Heady Topper kit came with Omega's Vermont strain (in a White Labs vial). This was my first time using the "shaken not stirred" starter method. I pitched the fermented starter @ 67 F and within a few hours, the carboy was showing activity. By 12 hours, the next morning, the carboy was really moving.
 
gotbags-10 said:
When did you pitch? I've had plenty of beers not show active air locks until 36 or more hours.
Click to expand...

It just started this morning. 1 burp per min on the airlock. It has been about 35 hrs. All in the past started 12 hrs by 24 there was full fermenting action.

Update: I am proud to announce it has 4 second bubble intervals at 65 F. It holds steady with room temperature unlike 05 yeast that raises it 3 to 4 deg at max fermentation rate.
I will keep posted the progress.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for a previous post with Volcanoes. And Headaches.
Sometimes the wine maker will batch a 500 gallon yeast pitch for 1 hour at 90+ Degrees F. Then send it off to a 34000 gallon tank with a jacket glycol cooling system. With 6000 Hp of Ammonia Refrigeration it was easy to grab a Yeast takeoff in time. However sometimes they would not grab it at the right time. The center of a large tank can make much yeast heat. Then Boil over. The bulk of the fermentation did not make much Esters. But some Wine makers want Esters for smell. ;-)
 
Brewed up a batch of the Farmhouse Supply version (based on the 1st recipe I believe) last Wednesday. Made a 1L starter with Omega's Conan. Had the best brew day ever for me. Boiled off a bit much (1st time using the Blichmann burner, holy smokes is that thing awesome!) but when I topped it off to 5.5g in the fermentor, I nailed the OG. I pitched the yeast around 68 or so but dropped the temp down to 63.5 over the next several hours. Been fermenting around 63.5-64F for six days. I can still see bubbles forming on the surface. I'm going to rouse the yeast tonight and then tomorrow bump up the temp to 72 to finish it off and hopefully dry it out. I plan to do both dry hop rounds in the keg. Once the gravity stabilizes, I'll crash it for a day, then rack to a keg and dry hop while it is on gas. I bought a 10" stainless hop filter from Stainless Brewing and it looks like it should work great for this. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! There are some great tips in this thread and I'll try some of the recipe tweaks in my next batch.
 
ianmatth said:
Don't know why you guys are having attenuation issues with Conan.

I must be doing something right.
Click to expand...
clearly, please let us know what that something is. conan has now twice crapped out on me early. i have no trouble getting other yeasts to attenuate as expected. since other folks have experienced the same, i suspect that it's the yeast and not just me :)


ianmatth said:
Do you think it's a good idea to finish this clone with US-05? If so, why? Also, do you have any experiments comparing Conan attenuation to US-05? Maybe you can run an experiment.
Click to expand...
i think it's a good idea, because an under-attenuated (sweet) IPA is gross. US-05 seems like a fine choice since it attenuates well... certainly more reliable that Conan, in my experience. given that almost no yeast growth will happen, the second yeast will add little to no flavor. that's why i wasn't worried about adding saison yeast to my stuck Conan DIPA - i just need attenuation.

i would not pitch the US-05 directly into the partially fermented beer. instead i would rehydrate, pitch into a hopped starter whose gravity and IBUs are similar to that of the stuck beer, and then pitch once it's fully active and has had a chance to get used to the presence of alcohol.
 
Maybe Conan is unreliable and I got lucky both times and got great strains, or maybe Conan isn't so great at lower pitching rates. From my experiment Conan attenuates better than WLP090 (which attenuates better than US-05 from my experience) when pitching at 1.0.

Or maybe people just aren't pitching enough yeast. I always make a starter AND I always know how many cells I am actually pitching. I would advise people not to rely on how many cells the manufacturer says are in the product nor to just make a starter and assume they have enough. Make a starter, cold crash it, and make sure you have 25 ml of solid yeast for every 100 billion cells you need.

Until anyone can provide a controlled experiment showing US-05 attenuates better than Conan, I would suggest using WLP099 if your Conan craps out.
 
ianmatth said:
Maybe Conan is unreliable and I got lucky both times and got great strains, or maybe Conan isn't so great at lower pitching rates. From my experiment Conan attenuates better than WLP090 (which attenuates better than US-05 from my experience) when pitching at 1.0.

Or maybe people just aren't pitching enough yeast. I always make a starter AND I always know how many cells I am actually pitching. I would advise people not to rely on how many cells the manufacturer says are in the product nor to just make a starter and assume they have enough. Make a starter, cold crash it, and make sure you have 25 ml of solid yeast for every 100 billion cells you need.

Until anyone can provide a controlled experiment showing US-05 attenuates better than Conan, I would suggest using WLP099 if your Conan craps out.
Click to expand...


I've always had WLP099 finish at about 72% efficiency where US-05 (WLP001) was reliably at 78%+ for me. Did a side by side once with 5 single gallon yeast experiments to see what the flavor differences would be with common American and British strains and had the same experience.

On Conan, it can be finicky for sure. If you don't have control over all of your yeast variables you may not get full attenuation. I'd say you need to oxygenate/use nutrients/use high enough pitch ayes more with Conan than other strains I've used.

::mug::
 
I agree with the previous posts. I think the vial pitch had a low count. It caught up and is roaring constant on the airlock this third day after pitching. It is a strong yeast. I'm going to culture and grow it for future use. It is expensive near 20 usd with shipping.
 
brewski09 said:
I've always had WLP099 finish at about 72%
Click to expand...

Interesting, I usually get well over 90% attenuation from WLP099.

So does anyone actually have experience finishing a beer they started with Conan using US-05 because I have actually used WLP099 to finish a beer I started with Conan and the highest FG I ever had from it was 1.012 - from a 1.150 calculated OG QIPA. Even at a calculated OG of 1.128, I had another QIPA finish at 1.004. That's 97% attenuation! The only other yeast that can match that from my experience is WLP045.
 
sweetcell said:
clearly, please let us know what that something is. conan has now twice crapped out on me early. i have no trouble getting other yeasts to attenuate as expected. since other folks have experienced the same, i suspect that it's the yeast and not just me :)



i think it's a good idea, because an under-attenuated (sweet) IPA is gross. US-05 seems like a fine choice since it attenuates well... certainly more reliable that Conan, in my experience. given that almost no yeast growth will happen, the second yeast will add little to no flavor. that's why i wasn't worried about adding saison yeast to my stuck Conan DIPA - i just need attenuation.

i would not pitch the US-05 directly into the partially fermented beer. instead i would rehydrate, pitch into a hopped starter whose gravity and IBUs are similar to that of the stuck beer, and then pitch once it's fully active and has had a chance to get used to the presence of alcohol.
Click to expand...

do you ramp up temperatures at the end of fermentation? I did three or 5 days kind of cool (63) and then pumped it up past 75 over the next few days. zero problems with attentuation
 
TheHairyHop said:
do you ramp up temperatures at the end of fermentation? I did three or 5 days kind of cool (63) and then pumped it up past 75 over the next few days. zero problems with attentuation
Click to expand...
yup, i ramp almost all my beers to some extent.

on this last conan batch, i pitched at 64, kept it there for 3 days, then slowly ramped to 72.

all is good now: my re-pitch of saison yeast got me down to 1.011 :ban:

TheHairyHop said:
I need to stop brewing IPAs
Click to expand...
no you don't.
 
The Mother Yeast has started the first (it is in the front vial). I did a partial pitch to a .040 SG DME in the back. I am hoping to standard this yeast growing. However because yeast grows so fast sometimes it mutates over generation time.

MotherYeast.jpg
 
So I'm interested in getting a conan strain prob the giga yeast so if I ferment in my basement which is 64 ambient then after 3 days move the carboy upstairs where it's 70 deg help attenuation? I've done it before with wlp500 hefe strain and on all my RIS's using 002 and 007 and so far it's worked. Also did the same with a dipa using 2nd gen 001 and it got down to 1.008 using sugar in the boil though of course. I also hear Conan attenuated better after continuing generations.
 
olotti said:
So I'm interested in getting a conan strain prob the giga yeast so if I ferment in my basement which is 64 ambient then after 3 days move the carboy upstairs where it's 70 deg help attenuation? I've done it before with wlp500 hefe strain and on all my RIS's using 002 and 007 and so far it's worked. Also did the same with a dipa using 2nd gen 001 and it got down to 1.008 using sugar in the boil though of course. I also hear Conan attenuated better after continuing generations.
Click to expand...

That is precisely what I do...... basement is 60-64 degrees, and fermentation temps will rise to 66-68 on its own. Day 3-4, I take the fermenter upstairs where it is 68-70 ambient. I get consistently good ferments (1.010-1.012)

I always brew a blonde ale (1.040-1.045) with my first generation of Conan and then harvest yeast to repitch into future brews (1.050-1.070). I think this helps me get a good beer out of first generation, lots of clean yeast, and I do find 2nd+ generation and on to be generally better.

I also always make a 1L starter 18 hours before and pitch the whole thing while it is actively fermenting. I have found this to work better than even doing a 2L starter and cold crashing, decanting, etc. I usually have pretty good fermentation kicking in within 4-8 hours when I do this.
 
sweetcell said:
yup, i ramp almost all my beers to some extent.

on this last conan batch, i pitched at 64, kept it there for 3 days, then slowly ramped to 72.

all is good now: my re-pitch of saison yeast got me down to 1.011 :ban:


no you don't.
Click to expand...

I take that back, this is what I did

I pitched more than enough this time around and did 72 for three days, 80 for one, and then 65 for a week.
Click to expand...
 
Just to report the yeast went from 1.080 to 1.014 in 5 days.
I am very happy, and have started the first dry hop today.
I also threw in 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin with 1/2 cup of water that was heated to 170 deg F for 5 min. By next week I will rack to lees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racking :) Then put the second dry hop in a bag with Marbles to the corny keg. I am using Iodine tinctures as my anti microbe defense.
 
Maybe the vegan brewer did not like my use of pectin. :) I am glad to report that all is going well with the clone with NB all grain. I will cold crash this tomorrow. Then after a few days rack too near bottom. If there is a lot of Oxygen in a fermentation process you can use Nitrogen to eliminate it. The little bubbling stones used in Aquariums do great things. https://www.extension.iastate.edu/w...n.iastate.edu/files/wine/useofinertgases1.pdf
 
Last edited:
I plan on brewing mine tomorrow. I will be making a 10 gallon batch, and I have a 2.25l gigayeast yeast starter at the moment that is settling in the fridge. I plan on decanting that and adding another liter of starter tomorrow and probably pitch the next day. I think that equates to a 3.25 liter starter for 10 gallons. Is that going to be enough if it is active when I pitch it? I can add more, but my largest flask is 2.25 liters full.

Also I have 40ml of hopshot. Is 20 ml enough, or should I bump it to 28?

I am hoping I can fit all 27 lbs of grain in my 10 gallon mash tun. May have to cut back some grain if i have issues. I have 24 lbs pearl, 1.5 caramalt and 1.5 lbs white wheat.

I will probably use the Fort Worth water which is`

Ph - 8
Ca Calcium - 39.6
S04 sulphate - 30
Cl - (chloride) - 23.5
Na (sodium) - 23
Magnesium – 5.45

Any suggestions to what to add? Normally I just add gypsum, but will be testing out my ph meter and may acidify the sparge. Not sure if CaCl is needed. I will see what I can check in a calculator, but just started reading Water and want to get this brewed in the meantime.

Edit:

On second thought, I have too much to do around my house. Will wait until the weekend to brew this. Could get some RO water if needed.
 
I have seen Yeast take off with a Ph as low as 3.5 to 4. They like a acidic takeoff. Along with a lot of Oxygen. The mash at 5.2 Ph is good for the extraction of sugars from the malt from what I have read.
This is my experience with Wines vs Beers ;-)
 
I am proud to announce that the Clone has been placed in the Keg. I cold crashed it yesterday with a teaspoon of Gelatin. It looked as clear as my past racking off to secondaries. That was Easy. Also am doing the second Dry hop with a large SS tablespoon in a hop bag that has a very fine mesh. 150 or so per inch. It will have a temp rise to room at 70 Deg for 3 days. Then Keged again at Zero. That's my best clone. All Sanitized. This will be my Holiday Beer.
Cheers all.
 
I think my Heady clone has a stuck fermentation. Ugh. I did a 1L starter with the Gigayeast version of Conan. Looks like it petered out around 1.014. Should have down a 2L starter. I was hoping to dry it out down to 1.010 or a little lower. I fermented for 1 week at about 64F and then ramped it up to 72F where it's been for 5 days. I took the gravity reading after 1 week and it was at 1.014 and it's still there now even after ramping up the temp.

I tasted the sample yesterday and it was OK. I can never get a good sense from tasting a sample during fermentation whether or not it will be good once it is dry hopped and carbed.

Should I:
a) Roust up the yeast with a sanitized spoon and see if that can get me down a few more points
b) Roust up the yeast and add some Nutriferm or something to restart fermentation
c) Add more Conan
d) Add some other yeast
e) Ramp up the temp beyond 72F
 
hezagenius said:
I think my Heady clone has a stuck fermentation. Ugh. I did a 1L starter with the Gigayeast version of Conan. Looks like it petered out around 1.014. Should have down a 2L starter. I was hoping to dry it out down to 1.010 or a little lower. I fermented for 1 week at about 64F and then ramped it up to 72F where it's been for 5 days. I took the gravity reading after 1 week and it was at 1.014 and it's still there now even after ramping up the temp.



I tasted the sample yesterday and it was OK. I can never get a good sense from tasting a sample during fermentation whether or not it will be good once it is dry hopped and carbed.



Should I:

a) Roust up the yeast with a sanitized spoon and see if that can get me down a few more points

b) Roust up the yeast and add some Nutriferm or something to restart fermentation

c) Add more Conan

d) Add some other yeast

e) Ramp up the temp beyond 72F
Click to expand...


If it is at 1.014 after a few days at 72F and has dropped bright - it's done. I wouldn't risk oxidizing the by stirring, pitching more yeast, or adding nutes. A statistically insignificant number of people would be able to detect a difference between 1.014 and 1.010. (Brulosopher says so!)

I would dry hop if you haven't already, package it & enjoy!
 
Thanks for the input. I'll check it one more time tonight to make sure it's stabilized. Then I'll rack to a keg, put it on gas, and dry hop at room temp for a few days. Then transfer to another keg to chill, carb and dry hop all at the same time.
 
If it's 1.014 before you've even started dry hopping it could very well drop a few more points. Once you finish it, take a small sample and let it go flat to see where your final gravity actually is. 1.010 is actually a little dry for Heady.
 
1.014 is not terrible - especially for a beer in the gravity range of Heady. I don't think I would repitch any yeast. I agree that you could sneak a point or two dry hopping as sometimes the addition of the hops will rouse the yeast up again. I would say I consistently get 1.012 from Conan.... but I also consistently brew beers in the 1.045-1.055 range too. I also carry it out for many generations. No one can tell the difference between 1.012 and 1.014 as far as taste/mouthfeel.
If it were up in the 1.016-1.020 range... that is where it starts to get really sweet and "off."
 
With my last heady clone using Conan, I didn't take a FG reading. I let it ferment for 3 weeks, maybe longer. I figured it was done. It did not taste good at all. I degassed a sample and checked the SG. 1.019. Nasty. I decided to just dump it. I'm paying a lot more attention this time.

I'm planning to do the 1st dry hop in the keg at room temp while on gas so I don't know how much more it will ferment. Should I do the 1st dry hop in the primary instead?
 
hezagenius said:
I'm planning to do the 1st dry hop in the keg at room temp while on gas so I don't know how much more it will ferment. Should I do the 1st dry hop in the primary instead?
Click to expand...

I would. I double dry hop all my IPA's. first dose in primary around day 5-7. Then second dose in a dry hopping keg for a couple days before jumping to serving keg. I like the initial dry hop in the primary as it is finishing up.
 
Braufessor said:
I would. I double dry hop all my IPA's. first dose in primary around day 5-7. Then second dose in a dry hopping keg for a couple days before jumping to serving keg. I like the initial dry hop in the primary as it is finishing up.
Click to expand...


I second this.
 

Similar threads

S
Autumn Wheat Ale
Replies
5
Views
1K
kwilson16
kwilson16
3 Dawg Night
Pliny the Elder American Pale Ale
Replies
14
Views
2K
redrocker652002
R
F
Advice on developing clone of Mast Landing "Windbreaker" NEIPA?
Replies
4
Views
679
poptarts
poptarts
Clint Yeastwood
Failure Beer
Replies
9
Views
839
Zambezi Special
Zambezi Special
pawleysplayr
Building Towards a Pilsner Taste - Yeast suggestions
Replies
27
Views
3K
ghpeel
ghpeel
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top