Head retention and Chocolate Malt

[Johnny9]

Hey guys and gals,

I have been brewing AG for 1 full year now and am loving it. But, I have on a few occasions had an issue with head retention. Most of my beers have had great head retention (lace, etc) except for 3 (out of 21). I have read and re-read all the head retention threads, but since most of my beers have plenty of head, I am throwing all all the usual suspects (soap film, glassware, etc).

The only thing I can find in common with all three problem beers is: they all had some amount of Chocolate Malt (Britist Mild, N. English Brown, and Robust Porter). These are the only beers that I have ever used Choc Malt on and every other beer that I brewed has been fine.

Could there be anything to this? Is Choc Malt more "oily" than others?

Has anyone experienced anything like this?

BTW:
-I do 10 gallon, full boil batches
-I keg and force carbonate


thanks

 

[Yooper]

I've never had an issue with using chocolate malt. I don't use a ton of it typically, but even in a stout or a nut brown, I get great head retention.

Can you post a typical recipe that you've had an issue with? Maybe something else will stand out to us.

 

[Johnny9]

All these recipes came out of Brewing Classic Styles: Once again, all 10 gallon batches / single temp infusion / batch sparge.

British Mild - Mash Temp 154

English Pale Malt 80%
Crystal 60L 8%
Crystal 120L 6%
Pale Choc Malt 200L 4%
Black Patent (525L) 2%

N. English Brown - Mash Temp 153

English Pale Malt 77.8%
Victory 28L 5.6%
Crystal 40L 5.6%
Pale Choc Malt 200L 2.8%
Special Roast 8.3%

Robust Porter - Mash Temp 153

English Pale Malt 72.6%
Lite Munich 8.4%
Crystal 40L 8.4%
Choc Malt 350L 6.3%
Black Patent (525L) 4.2%
***Lite Wheat Malt 1lb****

On the porter, I added the pound of wheat malt on my own because I was already suspecting poor head retention due to the use of Choc Malt. It definitely helped, but the last 1/3 of every pint was pretty flat and never did have any lace at all.

thanks for the help.

 

[Revvy]

I've never had a problem with head retention in ANY beer I made with chocolate malt in it. Rather than looking at what's NOT in those recipes, look at what is. What do the ones that *giggle* have good head have in common?

Do you have carapils, or wheat or oats or any other malts that are known to *snicker* give you good head in your grainbills

I always make sure to have at least 1/2 pound of carapils in my recipes for just that reason alone.

 

[Yooper]

Hmmm.

Ok, next question- what temperature are your rests? Are you doing a protein rest?

I know, I know- you said single infusion, batch sparge. But the only thing I can think of is a protein rest wrecking havoc with the head retention, or a too-low temperature. Are your thermometers accurate?

 

[Johnny9]

I've never had a problem with head retention in ANY beer I made with chocolate malt in it. Rather than looking at what's NOT in those recipes, look at what is. What do the ones that *giggle* have good head have in common?

Do you have carapils, or wheat or oats or any other malts that are known to *snicker* give you good head in your grainbills

I always make sure to have at least 1/2 pound of carapils in my recipes for just that reason alone.

I have gotten my best head with pales and IPAs. No carapils, wheat, etc added. very simple recipes.....???

It seems that with beer (as in life) consistent head is hard to find....(where's that beavis smiley)....giggle

 

[remilard]

There are other recipe similarities (EKG, lower carbonation, English pale malt) but I don't think any of these have anything to do with anything, including the chocolate malt.

My wild ass guess would be that since these beers are darker your mash pH is lower and you are getting more proteins out of solution during the boil and this is harming head retention.

Do you check mash pH? Have you made other, darker beers with no chocolate malt but good head retention?

 

[Johnny9]

Do you check mash pH? Have you made other, darker beers with no chocolate malt but good head retention?

That is an interesting theory.....

Although I use Palmer's Water Profile excel sheet and my county's monthly water reports to adjust my mineral profile, I do not check the Mash PH. I have heard of pH strips, but haven't been able to find any locally.

I have made a couple of Dry Stouts that have had great head and retention, but they have included 25% Flaked Barley that should significantly aid head retention as I understand it (possible overcoming the protein boil off?)

worth looking into, thanks.

 

[Johnny9]

Just as a follow up.

I checked my notes from all three beers then re-input my salt additions into Palmers Mash pH sheet (with my county's H2O profile).

The adjusted RA for all three fell into the extreme low end of the suggested RA range. That would have certainly resulted in a lower Mash pH. Not sure what I was thinking other than I was still pretty new to this part of the process.

So, at least I have something to try for my next Brown Ale!!:rockin:

thanks