Has my fermentation halted? Trying for a pumpkin ale

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gintaras

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Hi all, I'm hoping someone can help me figure out if my fermentation has halted, or if I just have a viscous (fluid viscosity) beer?

Grain bill here..
17 lbs 2 row
1.5 lb Crystal
1 lb biscuit
.5 lb brown sugar, baked with about 10 lbs cubed pumpkin for 90 minutes.
tsp pumpkin pie spice, 1 whole split vanilla bean.

The pumpkin and brown sugar were added to the mash after baking.

This was a 5.5 gallon batch, and the OG was 1.099
Brew day was 2 weeks ago, I pitched 2 packages Safale S-05, no starter.
I used a blowoff tube and it was gurgling pretty good and steady within 24 hours, and continued for about 3 days before tapering off. Temperature was a pretty consistent 68 degrees after the yeast settled down a bit.

So, 2 weeks into it, I transferred over for clearing and the SG is at 1.035?
This seems a little high, and the beer is semi-thick, but doesn't taste awfully sweet.

Would the pumpkin in the mash make for a "thick" beer?

Thanks for all the help that I have gotten off of this forum in the past..
 
1.099 is a very high gravity and in many cases dictates the use of a high gravity yeast strain. What do you mean thick? Like there is pumkin floating around or it has a thick mouth feel?

are you bottling of kegging?
 
Well your attenuation is a bit low for the yeast, at 64% apparent attenuation. If the gravity isn't falling anymore, though, then it's done.

If it tastes fine I wouldn't particularly worry about it. 1.035 is a fairly high finishing gravity if it ends up not going any lower, which is why it probably seems a little "thick". But if you like the taste, then I wouldn't worry about trying to drive it lower. I'm pretty surprised it doesn't taste really sweet, though.
 
hopsalot said:
1.099 is a very high gravity and in many cases dictates the use of a high gravity yeast strain. What do you mean thick? Like there is pumkin floating around or it has a thick mouth feel?

are you bottling of kegging?
Click to expand...

I was going under the assumption that S-05 could handle up to 12% abv.
And thick meaning thick, like motor oil, but not that extreme. Thicker than water though.
 
shanecb said:
Well your attenuation is a bit low for the yeast, at 64% apparent attenuation. If the gravity isn't falling anymore, though, then it's done.

If it tastes fine I wouldn't particularly worry about it. 1.035 is a fairly high finishing gravity if it ends up not going any lower, which is why it probably seems a little "thick". But if you like the taste, then I wouldn't worry about trying to drive it lower. I'm pretty surprised it doesn't taste really sweet, though.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll just let it go and see how it turns out.. it is not overly sweet, maybe a touch but not really, just has a heavy mouthfeel.. and it IS a pumpkin, so perhaps it will be just fine even if it is a tad sweet.. the spices that I baked and boiled with were no longer there after ferment, so I added 1/2 tsp and another whole vanilla bean.. should be interesting..
 
I think part of the issue may be hydrometers measure sugar in a liquid, but it can't differentiate between fermentable and non fermentable sugars, which would give you a higher final gravity reading. If it would make you feel better (and what I often do for big beers) is to add a package of champagne yeast. In addition, don't siphon it off just yet. Swirl the beer around in the fermenter to get what is left of the viable yeast back in suspension. Here, a liquid yeast would have been a better choice, simply because of the higher cell count and it would give you better control over alcohol tolerance.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Home Brew Talk...please excuse spelling and grammar
 
neilph said:
I think part of the issue may be hydrometers measure sugar in a liquid, but it can't differentiate between fermentable and non fermentable sugars, which would give you a higher final gravity reading. If it would make you feel better (and what I often do for big beers) is to add a package of champagne yeast. In addition, don't siphon it off just yet. Swirl the beer around in the fermenter to get what is left of the viable yeast back in suspension. Here, a liquid yeast would have been a better choice, simply because of the higher cell count and it would give you better control over alcohol tolerance.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Home Brew Talk...please excuse spelling and grammar
Click to expand...

Is this true? I was under the impression that sugars Sacch cannon ferment were too small to be fermented, therefore negligible on a hydrometer reading...
 
Hopsalot, at the LHBS I frequent this is one of the lessons they teach brewers brewers who use adjuncts such as fruits, vegetables, juice and so on. They give great advice, I have lots of faith in them. It would be great to get input from other brewers.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Home Brew Talk...please excuse spelling and grammar
 
Gintaras
I have never been able to detect any off flavor/ill effects from pitching champagne yeast. Near as I can tell its fairly neutral and can handle high alcohol environments, which makes it a good "finisher "

Sent from my DROID PRO using Home Brew Talk...please excuse spelling and grammar
 
neilph said:
Here, a liquid yeast would have been a better choice, simply because of the higher cell count and it would give you better control over alcohol tolerance.
Click to expand...

Explain to me how liquid yeast has a higher cell count.

According to mrmalty.com it would take 1.6 packets of dry yeast or 3.4 vials of liquid yeast.
 
cfonnes said:
Ever ferment with Sacc, take a gravity reading, then put in some brett?

Brett will continue to eat sugars that the sacc could not, further lowering the specific gravity.
Click to expand...

yes, I have, thanks for pointing out my error earlier. I am not sure why brett can take advantage of these sugars that sacch cannot. do you know?
 
hopsalot said:
yes, I have, thanks for pointing out my error earlier. I am not sure why brett can take advantage of these sugars that sacch cannot. do you know?
Click to expand...

I could be way off, but I see them as different animals with the ability to eat different food.
 
gintaras said:
I'm just wondering if the baked and mashed pumpkin in the mash added any of this body in the form off non-fermentables.
Click to expand...

Probably, but everyone that has responded seems to think that the high starting gravity has more to do with the high final gravity.

How did you oxygenate the wort? When I ferment wort that is over 1.075 I usually oxygenate twice as long as normal, pitch the yeast, then oxygenate again 12 - 18 hours later. This seems to help the yeast tremendously.
 
neilph said:
I think part of the issue may be hydrometers measure sugar in a liquid, but it can't differentiate between fermentable and non fermentable sugars, which would give you a higher final gravity reading. If it would make you feel better (and what I often do for big beers) is to add a package of champagne yeast. In addition, don't siphon it off just yet. Swirl the beer around in the fermenter to get what is left of the viable yeast back in suspension. Here, a liquid yeast would have been a better choice, simply because of the higher cell count and it would give you better control over alcohol tolerance.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Home Brew Talk...please excuse spelling and grammar
Click to expand...

Well.. yeah... that's what hydrometers are for. If they never measured unfermentable sugars then hydrometers would just always read zero if something is completely fermented out, and that wouldn't be very useful at all. I don't really see what your point is. A higher FG means there are sugars left regardless if they are fermentable or not. Of course it would give you a higher FG because you're putting more unfermentable sugars in. There's nothing that's an "issue" about that, unless I'm not understanding you correctly.

Also, liquid yeasts certainly do not have a higher cell count, unless you're talking about making a starter. But all you need is a couple packets of dry yeast to hit the same cell count as a starter.
 
I think I may be on to something.. I gave it another reading tonight and it fell a point, but only down to 1.033.

I think I remember reading somewhere that adding cinnamon to the boil is a bad idea because it will tend to gelatinize or thicken the wort?

The Pumpkin Pie spice that I used includes cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice.

If that is the case, then that explains my syrupy mouthfeel and high SG..

THoughts? Sure tases good, but the mouthfeel is all wrong.. perhaps some chilling and carbonation will improve it.
 
Well, it has been another week and still not much drop in SG.. Last reading was 1.033 at 67 degrees F..
I wonder if this will just be a big bodied beer.. I wonder if the 1.5 lbs of Crystal malt is contributing to the high SG.. I am thinking of adding some champagne yeast or even a starter of S-05..
Not really sure what to do at this point..
It tastes great! I just wish is was a tad lower in body at this point.
 
Just an update on this.. the beer turned out simply amazing. I like this brew even more than Southern Tier, in my opinion, it is that good and I am brewing another batch next week.
The thickness did not go away and my final gravity reading was 1.033. After carbing and chilling it, you can't tell that much, and the interesting thing that I learned from this, is that Schlafly Pumpkin Ale has that same "thickness" to it, so it must be something in the pumpkin that contributes. (they also use real pumpkin, not just spices)
Overall, this was the best beer that I have brewed and is a huge hit with anyone who tries it. I wish I would have made more than 5 gal, because it is going fast!
 
Just put our first batch in the primary. Added about 2/3 pound of lactose and a can of pumpkin pie filling about 20 minutes left in the boil. I'm hoping that will add a sweet creamy flavor to compliment the pumpkin spices.
 
My Southern Tier clone ended at 1.040 and my sg was 1.086. Still sitting in carboy, might keg it this weekend and see what happens.
 

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