Bought a different two row and now, my numbers aren't right.

[slayer021175666]

Hello everyone.
I started buying 2 row malt from a local farmer/ maltster (instead of the local home brew shop because it's not really local. 25 MI away!) and now, my numbers are low. It was at about 1.065 and now, it's at 1.055. His malt must have a little less extractable sugar in it, I figure. But, what I'm trying to do is get my beer back up to the alcohol level and flavor that I liked it at. That is another problem is, it's not as malty as it used to be. I tried mashing at a higher temp and that didn't help. My recipe has 10 lb total grain in it and 6.5 lb of that is the two row. To get my numbers from 1.055 up to 1.065, how much more of the two row should I add? And, if anybody knows of one, I was wondering if there's a calculation or formula for this. I will definitely take anybody's advice or rough figures or whatever that may help though as well. At this point all I'm thinking is, bump it up by 1 lb and see what happens but, that could take a recipe after recipe to figure out just by bumping it up here and there. I like to hit the number the first or second brew if that's possible.. This was for a five gallon recipe.
Thank you everyone. Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

I ran into a problem like that a handful of years ago when I bought a sack of "organic" 2 row base malt from an in-state maltster (Valley Malt, fwiw) and on the first brew with it noted a significantly lower-than-expected OG. It did not take much sleuthing to find the reason for that: the kernel size was equally significantly smaller than what I was used to with my usual base malts (Simpson Golden Promise, Weyermann Pilsner, and Briess Brewers Malt), which with a .032" gap never failed to hit OG numbers.

With a bit of experimenting I found I just had to dial the mill gap down to .025" to provide a visually equivalent crush. The next batch I used the Hadley malt the OG hit the expected numbers...

Cheers!

 

[MaxStout]

Perhaps the new malt has less diastatic power? Has it been kilned a little darker than the previous 2-row? Or the local farmer inadvertently denatured some of the enzymes while kilning the malt.

Incomplete conversion in the mash could be the culprit. If it has less diastatic power, it might need a longer sacc rest. You could try doing an iodine test on a small sample to see if any unconverted starch remains.

A lower mash temp, rather than a higher temp, would yield more fermentable sugars. If you still get low efficiency, you could try adding some alpha amylase to the mash to aid conversion. You can also add a few pounds of some malt with high diastatic power, like wheat or pilsner malt.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I agree with above, the simplest thing to try would be to extend the mash 15-30 min next time and see if your numbers are where they normally are at.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's likely under modified with more protein. If you stop at 120F for 10 minutes and then ramp it up to 150F, you'll get a lot more extract.

 

[slayer021175666]

It's likely under modified with more protein. If you stop at 120F for 10 minutes and then ramp it up to 150F, you'll get a lot more extract.

Thanks but, I'm mash in a cooler mash tun. I don't know how I would stop it at 120.

 

[slayer021175666]

Perhaps the new malt has less diastatic power? Has it been kilned a little darker than the previous 2-row? Or the local farmer inadvertently denatured some of the enzymes while kilning the malt.

Incomplete conversion in the mash could be the culprit. If it has less diastatic power, it might need a longer sacc rest. You could try doing an iodine test on a small sample to see if any unconverted starch remains.

A lower mash temp, rather than a higher temp, would yield more fermentable sugars. If you still get low efficiency, you could try adding some alpha amylase to the mash to aid conversion. You can also add a few pounds of some malt with high diastatic power, like wheat or pilsner malt.

I'm not really after more alcohol. I'm after a more malty flavor. That's why I said that I raised it a degree. The beer seems thinner and less sweet with this malt. And yes, it's about 5% now and it was about 6.5 percent. The alcohol drop isn't as concerning to me as the thinner body and less sweet flavor is.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can still hit a protein rest. You'd just use a smaller amount of water to get to 120 and then add enough boiling water to get it up to 150. That's called an infusion step mash. It's a moot point if you're not going to keep using that variety of 2 row past what you already bought. Start by using 10% more than the recipe calls for.

 

[slayer021175666]

You can still hit a protein rest. You'd just use a smaller amount of water to get to 120 and then add enough boiling water to get it up to 150. That's called an infusion step mash. It's a moot point if you're not going to keep using that variety of 2 row past what you already bought. Start by using 10% more than the recipe calls for.

Okay. I've actually heard of that but didn't really know what it was. That makes total sense though. I can look up some YouTube videos or whatever and see how other guys are doing it. Another thing that you said though that has me a little confused is when, you said to add 10% more of the barley. Can you explain why I would want to do that if you think that the step mashing would solve the problem?
And to let you know, yes. I am definitely going to keep using the barley and soon I'm going to try his malted wheat. It's half the price of the local home brew shop and it's not 25 miles away. I just got to get it adjusted, I think. I'm pretty sure that's all it is, is I need to adjust a few things. Or maybe just what my original idea was which was, add more barley.

 

[Bobby_M]

Okay. I've actually heard of that but didn't really know what it was. That makes total sense though. I can look up some YouTube videos or whatever and see how other guys are doing it. Another thing that you said though that has me a little confused is when, you said to add 10% more of the barley. Can you explain why I would want to do that if you think that the step mashing would solve the problem?
And to let you know, yes. I am definitely going to keep using the barley and soon I'm going to try his malted wheat. It's half the price of the local home brew shop and it's not 25 miles away. I just got to get it adjusted, I think. I'm pretty sure that's all it is, is I need to adjust a few things. Or maybe just what my original idea was which was, add more barley.

Either step mash at your current amount or add 10% more if you don't want to step mash. I'd say experiment with both methods and if the flavor intensity doesn't improve, move on. Good price is one thing, but if it tastes weak no matter what you do, it's not really a good value.

 

[slayer021175666]

Either step mash at your current amount or add 10% more if you don't want to step mash. I'd say experiment with both methods and if the flavor intensity doesn't improve, move on. Good price is one thing, but if it tastes weak no matter what you do, it's not really a good value.

I'd say you're right about that, Bobby.
If you just can't get it to taste right at all, it's worth paying more money.
Thanks for your clarification. I think I'll try the 10% more barley first.
I know a guy who owns and operates a local brewery and he buys The barley from the same guy. He told me to up the green amount but, he was talking like 20%. Do you think I should start with 10 or go ahead and use his 20% since, he's years of experience brewing with it?