has anyone exceeded the 200 gallon limit

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kappclark

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I obey the law (mostly)..

I am not sure, though, how the 200 gallon limit could possibly be enforced ... this year I might find a way to hit that # ..

I am asking if anyone might have exceeded this mysterious number ... I figure I would need to do roughly a batch every week to go beyond the limit ...

And - has anyone ever heard of anyone getting socked by enforcement for thier 201st gallon ?

Any confessions ?
 

the_bird

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I can't imagine it would ever be an issue unless you had an ******* neighbor who ratted you out, or if you got caught trying to sell it. It'd be hard to prove whether the beer you had sitting in bottles had been brewed that year or the year before (especially if your note-taking is as bad as mine!)
 

HP_Lovecraft

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I've hit the 100 gallon limit before.
So then I switched to ciders, meads, and wines.

The ATF lists them seperate, meaning you are allowed to make 100/200 gallons of beer, AND 100/200 gallons of wine.

I assume that cider, being fruit-based, is considered a type of wine? Mead is not grain-based, so that might be a grey area though.

nick
 

cheezydemon

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Assuming that a batch takes 3 weeks in the fermenter.... 17....you could get roughly 85 gallons from one 5 gallon carboy going non stop.

So you would need 3 carboys that were never empty for more than 20 minutes at a time.

Really that is damn near impossible.

You would have to have four 5 gallon carboys going at all times.

AG and assuming a cost of $25 a batch, that would be over $1000 in supplies.

I don't think I am any where near that this year.
 

rabidgerbil

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cheezydemon said:
Assuming that a batch takes 3 weeks in the fermenter.... 17....you could get roughly 85 gallons from one 5 gallon carboy going non stop.

So you would need 3 carboys that were never empty for more than 20 minutes at a time.

Really that is damn near impossible.

You would have to have four 5 gallon carboys going at all times.

AG and assuming a cost of $25 a batch, that would be over $1000 in supplies.

I don't think I am any where near that this year.
I currently have 10 carboys, and will be picking up 4 more this next week. My big thing so far has been brewing for special events like weddings, etc. I supplied 20 gallons to a wedding yesterday. I have another wedding coming up in 8 weeks, and possibly another shortly after that. Being that each of these events takes up multiple batches, I can end up brewing a few times a week to get ready for one of these.

With the size of my family and my close group of friends at church, it is easy to keep myself almost constantly busy with event brewing alone, much less trying to throw in some brewing for my home consumption. I do not know if I will exceed 200 gallons this year, but I would not be surprised if I come very close to it.
 

Nurmey

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cheezydemon said:
Assuming that a batch takes 3 weeks in the fermenter.... 17....you could get roughly 85 gallons from one 5 gallon carboy going non stop.
So you would need 3 carboys that were never empty for more than 20 minutes at a time.
Really that is damn near impossible.
You would have to have four 5 gallon carboys going at all times.
AG and assuming a cost of $25 a batch, that would be over $1000 in supplies.
I don't think I am any where near that this year.
Three words: Ten gallon batches. :D
I do 5 gallon batches but we have 14 carboys and it's not hard to have them all full at the same time.
 

Mutilated1

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That would be a pretty good goal, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to do it. You'd have to brew almost every week, and that would be the easy part, but then that also means you'd have to drink almost 5 gallons of beer a week, and while that would be fun to try, I bet you'd get tired of it before year end. Maybe you could have some parties or something...
 

CBBaron

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Mutilated1 said:
That would be a pretty good goal, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to do it. You'd have to brew almost every week, and that would be the easy part, but then that also means you'd have to drink almost 5 gallons of beer a week, and while that would be fun to try, I bet you'd get tired of it before year end. Maybe you could have some parties or something...
You assume that I drink all of my own beer. I think many members, especially those that approach ;) the limit, share much of their home brew with friends and family. I know close to half of mine is drank by other parties.
With 5gal brews it would be an achievable goal, with 10+gal batches it would not be hard to achieve at all. I have done double batch days before so it wouldn't even require brewing every weekend either.
Given my time constraints and my beer consumption I probably won't brew much more than 100gals this year but I can see how it would be easy to make 200+.
Craig
 

Soulive

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Waboom!! said:
This is an issue that I would absolutely NEVER be worried about!
Ditto! Even if I had everything sitting around in bottles and never drank it, they wouldn't know when its from as mentioned above...
 

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HP_Lovecraft said:
I've hit the 100 gallon limit before.
So then I switched to ciders, meads, and wines.

The ATF lists them seperate, meaning you are allowed to make 100/200 gallons of beer, AND 100/200 gallons of wine.

I assume that cider, being fruit-based, is considered a type of wine? Mead is not grain-based, so that might be a grey area though.

nick
Well, it's not the ATF that enforces the homebrew laws- its the TTB which falls under the US Treasury Department. And it's not separate- it's 100/200 gallons total. Any not-distilled alcoholic beverages are considered the same whether it's beer, wine, cider, mead, etc.
 

HP_Lovecraft

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YooperBrew said:
Well, it's not the ATF that enforces the homebrew laws- its the TTB which falls under the US Treasury Department.
The ATF is the "military wing" of the Treasury Department. There primary job is to enforce TAXATION laws for controlled items. So in the world of politics, the difference between the ATF and TTB is largely semantics. One handles the "front end", and the other handles the "back end".

And it's not separate- it's 100/200 gallons total. Any not-distilled alcoholic beverages are considered the same whether it's beer, wine, cider, mead, etc.
You could be right, but the actual law says this:
27 CFR §§ 25.205
A home brewer may produce, without payment of tax, per household, up to 200 gallons of beer per year if there are two or more adults residing in the household
27 CFR 24.75
The individual may produce, without payment of tax, per household, up to 200 gallons if there are two or more adults residing in the household.
Nowhere does it group them as a single "not-distilled alcoholic beverages". The specific 100/200 laws for beer and wine are completely seperate in the law books.

I'm not a lawyer. In fact, I am only guessing. Is there a seperate law that says only a 100/200 gallons total? (Note, I just noticed that the above regulations do specifically state that CIDER is considered a type of wine)
 

Junebug

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I've thought about this, too...I don't really think there's any way this would be enforced, UNLESS as somebody mentioned previously, you have a nasty neighbor who has it in for you, OR you attempt to sell it. I think that could bring a host of issues. Otherwise, you're in the clear.
 

5 Is Not Enough

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Or maybe if you get on a public internet forum about brewing beer and answer "yes" to "have you exceeded the limit?"
 

Jack

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I enjoy brewing so if I had the time, I could easily see myself brewing 200 gallons/year. (Although I have to confess that I currently only brew 1 gallon at a time... but with my larger set-up I'm sure I could.)

But I know I probably never will because I can't afford to give that much beer away for free!
 

ohiobrewtus

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After this weekend I'll be at 30 gallons in '08 (three 10 gallon batches). If I keep up that pace (which is doubtful) I'll fly past 200 sometime in July.
 
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kappclark

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OK Guys - Looks like I'll be in the clear !


... no ******* neighbors up here ( they all love the brew, and I am very thankful for that! )

Yes - the prospect of consuming that much homebrew is strange, and wrong ! I say it MUST be shared and enjoyed with family and friends .. and perhaps some new friends...it makes me enjoy it that much more ..

So, I figure I consume abt 60 - 75% of what I make .. must share more of this wealth ....

Also, the $25/batch figure should be closer to abt $13/batch when considering purchasing in bulk, and re-using Yeast ...and AG, of course .. simple low hopped brews

So, we have $520 in ingredients, plus cost of propane etc. I do not factor in cost of my time, but I am trying to use my time more efficiently ..

Insead of getting the shiny conical, I bought 3 more plastic fermenters ... best case scenerio has me doing 4 5 gal batches .. I also have 2 carboys .. it would be a challenge to get to 200 ...

I think I wld need to do 10 gal batches to make this happen
 

Donasay

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cheezydemon said:
Assuming that a batch takes 3 weeks in the fermenter.... 17....you could get roughly 85 gallons from one 5 gallon carboy going non stop.

So you would need 3 carboys that were never empty for more than 20 minutes at a time.

Really that is damn near impossible.

You would have to have four 5 gallon carboys going at all times.

AG and assuming a cost of $25 a batch, that would be over $1000 in supplies.

I don't think I am any where near that this year.
I currently have six 6.5 gallon primary carboys, and 2 buckets that I don't use as often any more.

I also have ten 5 gallon secondary fermenters and 8 kegs that I can use as secondaries if needed. (my kegerator only has 2 taps)

I picked the hobby up again in June of 07 after graduating from graduate school, and in 6 months last year brewed 140 gallons of beer and 10 gallons of apfelwine. If I keep up the same pace this year, I can break the 200 gallon limit, but as of right now I have slowed down for the winter as I brew outside, and will probably just bump right up against the 200 gallon limit by the end of the year.
 

Desert_Sky

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i didn't. I stopped brewing at 199.9 gallons last year.


and not a drop more....i swear!!!! ;)
 

Desert_Sky

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the_bird said:
You forgot to count your starters, boy! You're going to have to come downtown with me....

if it's not carbonated and without hops then it's not considered beer right? :rockin:
 

jdoiv

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Chimone said:
if it's not carbonated and without hops then it's not considered beer right? :rockin:
Well I don't know about the carbonation, BMC gets away with brewing beer without hops all the time. :D



I brewed about 215 gallons last year and that was with just getting back into it last March. I've already brewed 30 gallons this year. I have one 14 gallon conical and 2 buckets for fermentation as well as 5 carboys that rarely get used. Most of my beers rarely see it all the way to 14 days before I move them off to the keg (of which I have over 20). I do drink a good bit of it, but do also share with friends and family. Also, of everything I brewed last year, I still have at least 50 gallons still in kegs or bottles.
 

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I suspect the 100/200 limits were established to give them dadburn revenoors a way to nail moonshiners if they couldn't find the stills. A few 55-gallon drums of sour mash corn "beer" are necessary to produce the volume needed to get enough lightning out to justify firing up a decent-size crickside still. Usually the corn "beer" is pretty crude, just big ol' tanks of whatever will ferment with bread yeast pitched in, since most off-flavors from wild yeasts and streptococcal bacteria and stuff barely transfers through the distillation process to the final product, which tastes awful anyway ...

They'd probably bust you if you served yourself up to them, but I bet the treasury department really doesn't give a rat's cherry-red ass about hobby beermakers.

cheers!

--Finn
 

Boerderij_Kabouter

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I don't brew 200 gallons a year... of course not! I brew 150 gallons and my wife brews 190! Just kidding, but if push came to shove could this argument be used?

Seriously my wife does help me brew most times... she rules
 

Drunkensatyr

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I HAVE NOT NOR EVER WILL EXCEED THE 200 GALLON MARK. That being said I have made a LOT of beer this year. I would have to say it was 199.9 gallons.
 

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Boerderij Kabouter said:
I don't brew 200 gallons a year... of course not! I brew 150 gallons and my wife brews 190! Just kidding, but if push came to shove could this argument be used?
No, the limit is per household, not per person.

Household with a single adult: <100 gallons.
Household with two or more adults: <200 gallons.

So people saying things like "I wish I had more roommates": more roommates just means more competition for those 200 gallons. It doesn't raise the limit.
 

TexLaw

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flowerysong said:
No, the limit is per household, not per person.

Household with a single adult: <100 gallons.
Household with two or more adults: <200 gallons.

So people saying things like "I wish I had more roommates": more roommates just means more competition for those 200 gallons. It doesn't raise the limit.
You know, I agree with that on a per brewer basis. However, when I read the statute and reg, it seems to beg the question as to whether the household is limited or just the individual brewer. If you have two brewers in the household, are they limited to 200 gallons, total, or do they each get their own 200 gallons? I haven't done the first bit of research to run that down, but the plain language seems to indicate the latter.


TL
 

PeteOz77

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Considering that I have already brewed 40 gallons, and it's barely 2 weeks into the year, I am thinking I will break the 200 mark by mid year. However, I don't know what the limit is here in AUS, or if there even IS a limit. I suppose I had better check :)

Brewing another 10 gallons tomorrow...
 

flowerysong

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TexLaw said:
You know, I agree with that on a per brewer basis. However, when I read the statute and reg, it seems to beg the question as to whether the household is limited or just the individual brewer. If you have two brewers in the household, are they limited to 200 gallons, total, or do they each get their own 200 gallons? I haven't done the first bit of research to run that down, but the plain language seems to indicate the latter.
No.
(e) Beer for personal or family use.--Subject to regulation prescribed by the Secretary, any adult may, without payment of tax, produce beer for personal or family use and not for sale. The aggregate amount of beer exempt from tax under this subsection with respect to any household shall not exceed--

(1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are 2 or more adults in such household, or

(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only 1 adult in such household.
Emphasis added.
 

TexLaw

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Well, there you go. I don't know what I was looking at before that gave me the idea I had (or what I was drinking at that time), but that's pretty clear. Thanks.


TL
 

Bearcat Brewmeister

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Chimone said:
if it's not carbonated and without hops then it's not considered beer right? :rockin:
The rough idea in this post is the key right here to legally produce more if you can get some cooperation. The law is 200 gallons of BEER per year per 2-adult household - you can produce as much WORT as you want as long as more than 200 gallons doesn't ferment into beer on your property. If you are a stickler for following this law that most likely rarely gets enforced, let your beer ferment at someone else's household - neighbor, friend, relative, etc. Heck, teach them how to brew too and spread the hobby.
 

Finn

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nah, it's per-household. If ya live solo, 100 gallons; more than one adult in household gets it up to the max of 200. Not sure whether your 21-year-old nephew staying in the fifth-wheel out back constitutes a separate household, though.
 
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