Hard water vs Soft water vs Beer style

[Stormrider51]

I'm posting this in the beginner section because even though I have some years experience I have a new situation. I moved into an area with very hard water. We were advised to install a water softener and did so. My question centers around this, I have a choice of hard or soft water for brewing. So will I benefit from using hard water in brewing, for instance, British Ales and then using the soft water for something like a Pils that originated in an area with low mineral content water? I'm just curious.
Thanks,
John

 

[Gnomebrewer]

No, don't use softened water. Water softeners replace Calcium and/or Magnesium with (typically) Sodium, so water that has been through a water softener is probably high in Sodium.

An RO system also produces soft water, but does so by removing dissolved solids (including Calcium and Magnesium, along with bicarbonate and other ions). Soft water from an RO system is suitable for all styles with some salts added back in.

In your situation, you need to find out what your water profile is to see what it's suitable for. It's not the hardness that's going to be an issue - alkalinity/bicarbonate is the problem.

 

[Yooper]

In short, no. You don't want to use water from a softener for brewing.

Hard water is good for brewing- but water with high alkalinity is not. So my guess is that your water, both the softened water and the 'hard' water is not great brewing water.

 

[Robert65]

You don't want to brew with water from an ion exchange water softener. Remember the basics. Hardness = calcium and magnesium. Alkalinity = carbonate and bicarbonate. A water softener removes hardness by replacing calcium and magnesium with sodium. So you are left with none of the calcium and magnesium that you need for brewing, lots of sodium you don't want, and you still have all the alkalinity, which is the problem element in brewing, what you need to eliminate in order to brew pale beer or even many darker ones. When you hear about pale lagers using "soft" water, what is really meant is non-alkaline. (Some confusion probably because of different terminology in Europe.) If you can get away with it (depending on all the other ions in the water, like sulfate, chloride, sodium, etc.) you might do well to just use acid to neutralize the alkalinity in your raw water. Or you might combine this with dilution with distilled or RO, or just build from 100% distilled or RO.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Where are you living now? I'm assuming you're not at Austin, TX as that has quite soft water.

 

[Stormrider51]

Where are you living now? I'm assuming you're not at Austin, TX as that has quite soft water.

We live near Canyon Lake now. The water out here is very hard. So hard that we were warned to get a water softener or face our tankless water heater having a short lifespan. So we got a Kinetico. They claim to leave the smallest amount of salt in the water of any brand.

I'm returning to brewing after about a 6 year hiatus. My first batch was a Celis White clone. It turned out well although obviously not a match in a side-by-side comparison with the real thing. My second was an Irish Red that turned out very well. I have a Noble Pils in primary at this time. As a side note, I purchased The Catalyst fermentation system and like it. It's certainly easier than buckets and much cheaper than the Blickman stainless conical I sold when I quit brewing.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'll have my softened water profiled so I know what I'm dealing with.
Jphn

 

[z-bob]

Your water is unlikely to be more alkaline than mine, and I'm brewing good beer with it by adding acid. (I've not brewed many great beers, but some were close) Get a water report from the city to see what you are really working with. Most other brewers here buy RO water at the grocery stores, and that's a good solution but a little inconvenient.

For a while I was buying a little RO water and mixing it 50:50 with the hard tapwater and adding just a little acid -- and that's actually probably the best way to do it, but I'm brewing with straight tapwater now because I like the challenge.

BTW, if you get a reverse osmosis machine, put it on the soft water supply. It will remove the sodium from the Kinetico, and it will last longer that way.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

There are some reports listed here
https://www.clwsc.com/ccr#Water-Quality-Report
for the Canyon Lake region, which list the parameters we're interesting in for brewing.
Unfortunately it looks like there is lots of variability depending on the 'blend' of water at any point in time - Canyon Lake surface water or aquifer water - which makes it hard to know what you're brewing with (ranging from moderately soft to very hard). Because of this blending of water, it's also pointless sending a sample in for testing.

It might help you to look at getting a TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter (to get an idea of whether your water on the day of brewing is hard and alkaline or more moderate) and/or a pH meter (to acidify all brewing water before use). Alternatively, it might be easier and more reliable to simply use RO water.

So we got a Kinetico. They claim to leave the smallest amount of salt in the water of any brand.

Water softeners don't take salts out of the water. They replace one ion (mostly Calcium, which is good for brewing) with another (normally Sodium, which is neutral to good in small amounts but not wanted in high amounts). They do nothing for the bicarbonate/alkalinity. Again, don't even consider using your softened water for brewing. Naturally soft water is good, softened water is bad.

 

[Saunassa]

My well water has not been tested for brewing but I can taste a touch of clear water iron. I generally go 60:40 softener to well and the beer tastes good. I do adjust the pH of the water and that made a big change in the beer. Next up will probably be an RO system or buying spring water from the store to mix with the softened water.

 

[Soulshine2]

I'm posting this in the beginner section because even though I have some years experience I have a new situation. I moved into an area with very hard water. We were advised to install a water softener and did so. My question centers around this, I have a choice of hard or soft water for brewing. So will I benefit from using hard water in brewing, for instance, British Ales and then using the soft water for something like a Pils that originated in an area with low mineral content water? I'm just curious.
Thanks,
John

get an actual water analysis and go from there

 

[Gnomebrewer]

get an actual water analysis and go from there

There's not much point. The water supplier uses water from two sources (both very different) in different blends. Water analysis will only show what it is at one point in time.

 

[ktm250]

There's not much point. The water supplier uses water from two sources (both very different) in different blends. Water analysis will only show what it is at one point in time.

Unless he's on a private well. Not sure about his area, but where I live everyone who lives outside of a larger town or city are all on private wells. Even a lot of villages around me have private wells for all residences. He didn't provide that info in the OP.

 

[Stormrider51]

Gnomebrewer must be familiar with this area. Our water supplier takes water from Canyon Lake and also from the Trinity Aquifer.
John

 

[Gnomebrewer]

No, it was in the water report I linked above. I've never visited the US.

 

[ktm250]

No, it was in the water report I linked above. I've never visited the US.

The US varies widely on how residents get water. Urban and suburban dwellers nearly all get water from the city municipal water supply. Outside of those areas it could be a mixture of municipal water supply piped out of the incorporated limits, a county water supply, a self supported water district, private cisterns supplied by a corporate water service or private wells. In my area we are all on private wells drilled to a depth of between 90 and 150 feet to a limestone aquifer.

 

[z-bob]

How close are you to the lake? Can you scoop up a bucket or two of lake water? Anything nasty in it should not survive the boil. (why is everybody throwing rocks at me? )

 

[BrewSomeMore]

I have made some award winning beer from softened water. I can't really taste any detectable salt. Also, it is a newer softner system I got installed a couple of years ago. Try it and see how your beer turns out. You don't know until you try.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How close are you to the lake? Can you scoop up a bucket or two of lake water? Anything nasty in it should not survive the boil. (why is everybody throwing rocks at me? )

That's a great idea!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I have made some award winning beer from softened water. I can't really taste any detectable salt. Also, it is a newer softner system I got installed a couple of years ago. Try it and see how your beer turns out. You don't know until you try.

It all depends on how hard the water was to start with. The point is that there's no reason to use softened water - the stuff the softener removes is good for brewing (Calcium mostly), but it still leaves the alkalinity/bicarbonate, which is the issue with the source water (not the hardness).

 

[BrewSomeMore]

I have not tested my water for alkalinity but makes good pale/lager beer. I might get it tested but is making fine beer. There is probably some residual alkalinity, I just don't know how much it is effecting the beer.

 

[Saunassa]

We have a drilled well and the water is hard. Not super hard water like some have but without the softener you can taste the clear water iron.

 

[AkTom]

I have a water softener. I make so tasty beer, wine and mead. Try a 5 gallon batch of a pale ale. You might be surprised. Then you can make a more personal decision.
Cheers

Hopefully I’ll be moving to Big Spring soon. They have hard water there too. So, I’ll be watching this thread.