Happiness is: Home malting

[Seabee John]

I hate to be a newbie bringing a buzz kill but does anyone know if malt absorbs carcinogens from the propane heater exhaust? You are burning a hydrocarbon and blowing the exhaust over the malt.

Tobacco farmers around me have almost totally gotten away from fire curing where the exhaust from propane burners is blown directly into the curing barn. Now they flue cure where the exhaust gases are routed through ducts (heat exchanger) that heat the air in the curing barn and the leaf never touches the exhaust fumes.

there are no carcinogens produced from burning carbon based fuels.... just CO2 and H2O...., now if you take some exhaust and "reburn" it, you produce carbon monoxide... still not a carcinogen, but plenty enough reason not to blow it directly into a barn....

EDIT: By carcinogens, I mean cancer causing agents outside the State of California... cause we all know that EVERYTHING causes cancer in California... just look at the label

 

[BrewBeemer]

This is why us high energy demanding Kalifornia people buy energy from dirty coal generating plants that can not be built in Kalifornia, they produce electricty from out of state and ship this dirty coal fuel produced electricity to kalifornia making us a clean and "green state while these outside states get all the dirty pollution from these coal generators in their states. This makes us in Kalifornia look "Green" while the dirty coal is making a mess of other states. The one that makes me laugh is this word called "clean coal". The public is beyond stupid? Global warming is from the hot air out of the politicians mouths and the "Greenie Berkeley types of people" that have their heads UP and LOCKED! Many stupid sheep support these over priced no SSI paying political people that give themselves free raises on a yearly Yes vote. Justice not served. I can have a 68 520 cu/in motor fail smog because it ran too clean and because of a failed visual due to MPI vs a carb. Pre smog now with HP with a big carbon footprint 14" wide by 200' long with a heavy right foot of planted rubber. Pre plastic no smog and love it as life begins at 140 mph. Sorry you got me off topic here, had to add my two cents worth beyond brewing. The cancer in Kalifornia is too many people that do not speak english, to talk to me you must press 1, WTF isn't this the USA? Learn to speak english.

 

[DeathBrewer]

WTF isn't this the USA? Learn how to spell California.

 

[COLObrewer]

I hate to be a newbie bringing a buzz kill but does anyone know if malt absorbs carcinogens from the propane heater exhaust?

Could be, do they (Carcinogens) have a slightly smokey, slightly astringent flavor?

 

[WortMonger]

You could always "fart cure" your grain, for that sulphury lager. I can't attest to a level of carcinogens in there as well though.

On a serious note, I am really liking this thread and I am getting so many ideas.

 

[COLObrewer]

You could always "fart cure" your grain, for that sulphury lager. I can't attest to a level of carcinogens in there as well though

It's a bit nutty.

 

[the_Roqk]

It's a bit nutty.

Yeah Baby! Yeah!

 

[springer]

WTF isn't this the USA? Learn how to spell California.

ya SRSLY

for the love of there at least 10

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

COLObrewer - I can't believe I missed this thread up until now. Thank you for the fantastic thread, I learned a lot, and I still have to go through all the links. Fantastic, I vote for a stickie!

 

[pilotdane]

I need to keep my eye open for an old convection oven. I'm not sure it is big enough for a hundred pounds of grain but it seems to have everything. Heat source, temperature control and a circulating fan to make sure there are no hot spots. A few batches of home made malt sounds like fun.

 

[COLObrewer]

I need to keep my eye open for an old convection oven. I'm not sure it is big enough for a hundred pounds of grain but it seems to have everything. Heat source, temperature control and a circulating fan to make sure there are no hot spots. A few batches of home made malt sounds like fun.

Yes that should work, they've done it before, you'll also want to move the malt around as it drys to release the moisture evenly, not sure it will hold 100lbs of malt either because it almost doubles in mass as well.:rockin:

 

[COLObrewer]

So, our lastest attempt with the home malt.
We planned on testing the limits of our current equipment with a “double mash brew” (10gal tun is our limiting factor). The plan is to mash the max amount of grain twice in the tun, collect the first runnings of each mash in one keggle for a “big” beer, collect the second and third (4th, 5th whatever) in another keggle or two for a smaller beer. The recipe is simple: 14lbs pale (home malt) and 14lbs brown malt (Hugh Baird) for each back to back batch, (56lbs total grist bill), We used Chinook hops (We have a pound or so of chinook in the freezer we have to get rid of). By the way the barley I planted earlier in a container has finally headed out after some transplant shock and it appears to be 6 row of some variety. Here’s a picture:

They aren’t too healthy probably due to transplanting.

I had delusions of grandeuer of creating a 14% brown with the first runnings using this “double mash”. It didn’t work that way, the first runnings ended up with 1.072OG (5gals) and the second and third runnings ended up at 1.060OG (17gals). I believe we need to start doing some sort of protein rest with this home malt. It’s a good thing we had an extended sparging period with this because the efficiency would have been way low otherwise. It appears we got around 78% eff. unless I’m not figuring it right. The wort was still sweet tasting after the last sparge but I didn’t check SG of it. Efficiency seems to be all over the place with the home malt so far. Maybe Polecreek can shed some light with the home malt I gave him, he has another thread going about it in the all grain section on this forum. Here are some pics of the effort if anyone is interested,
Mash tun during one of the sparges: (FULL, heh)

First runnings boiling in 10gal corny keggle:

Needless to say we used all three keggles and utilized the 20gal fermentor for 2nd/third runnings. I will use the smoked malts in the next batch which will be all home malt and I'll probably do a protein rest (at least) at appx. 120F, how long a rest should this be?

 

[Saccharomyces]

Hmm. I'd follow the lead from George Fix and try to maximize your yield assuming you have a large % of insoluable proteins in your home malt. I would dough in at 105*F for a Beta Glucanase rest, infuse to 122*F for 30 minutes to gelatanize the proteins, ramp to 144*F for 30 for an alpha amylase rest, and ramp to 158*F for 30 for a beta amylase rest. Assuming your crush is good (0.040 or smaller mill gap) you should get all the yield you will ever get out of that grain with such a mash schedule.

If you got 78% I'll bet you got 88% yield from the brown malt and 68% yield from your home malt. Or maybe even 90%/65%.

 

[COLObrewer]

If you got 78% I'll bet you got 88% yield from the brown malt and 68% yield from your home malt. Or maybe even 90%/65%.

That's what I was thinking, I'll be able to tell more on the next batch since it will be all home malt. I will probably try a rest schedule similar to what you suggest, I have no pumping aparatus so I will be doing it through batch type procedures, I will have to revisit the books on step mashing and protein rests etc, Thanx!, Vern.

 

[WortMonger]

Ohhhhh I can't wait for the tests to be drinkable and the typing to commence.

 

[COLObrewer]

We'll probably be trying the SMATH batches this weekend, it'll be 2 and 1/2 weeks since kegged. I could probably wait another week but I'm feeling like a noob again chomping at the bit waiting for "first taste".

None of us (Me and the boys) have ever done any real judging of beers, but my initial plan is to utilize the killians sample cups initially for the first tests, we'll do some blind testing of one then the other, I guess using the BJCP guidelines, Aroma, Appearance, Flavor, Body, Overall etc. I was wondering if there is maybe a form for this? That lists the possible aromas, flavors, etc? Couldn't find one on search. Or do we just go by our own impressions/thoughts? After the initial tests, (If the beer is ready) we'll do some large glass sampling and I'll take pics etc. Anything else needed? Any suggestions? I'd love to share this experience with everyone interested, maybe we'll video tape.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I think you are looking for this.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/SCP_BeerScoreSheet.pdf

 

[Stratotankard]

None of us (Me and the boys) have never done any real judging of beers, but my initial plan is to utilize the killians sample cups initially for the first tests, we'll do some blind testing of one then the other, I guess using the BJCP guidelines, Aroma, Appearance, Flavor, Body, Overall etc. I was wondering if there is maybe a form for this? That lists the possible aromas, flavors, etc? Couldn't find one on search. Or do we just go by our own impressions/thoughts? After the initial tests, (If the beer is ready) we'll do some large glass sampling and I'll take pics etc. Anything else needed? Any suggestions? I'd love to share this experience with everyone interested, maybe we'll video tape.

Check out this at the BJCP website. Nice description of most off flavours you'll find in beers. BJCP also has a pdf of their style guidelines on the same site.

Edit: or you could use the form Sacc posted
Terje

 

[COLObrewer]

Thanx guys, that's what I was looking for.
I guess as far as styles go this should be in the "light hybrid beer" category maybe a blonde? Or ?

Maybe we should compare them both to a good commercial craft beer of the style?

If there is such a thing?

I wonder what it would be?

Any suggestions?

 

[COLObrewer]

Fellow brewers,
We decided to try the SMATH brews this weekend. First I'll post some photos:

First pours, Left is home malt, Right is the Rahr.

You'll notice the head is thicker with the rahr, possibly due to a difference in carbonation due to more head space in the home malt keg, both seem to have some chill haze. We used no clarifier at all.

Side by side after sitting a few minutes: Note: the Rahr was poured first and sat while I swapped the lines and cobra fitting from ball lock to pin lock.

The home malt still seems to be a shade darker than the rahr, we didn't notice this while testing because we used the new funky little killians cups.

After a couple of swallows:

The home malt seems to be a bit more carbonated, again possibly due to more head space in the keg, may be the reason for head retention difference also? These are still a little young at 16 days in the keg. Me = No patience.

And at the end:

Tasting results as follows: We sat in the garage for the tasting/judging and utilized the BJCP judging forms and killians plastic cups (I’ve come to the conclusion that these are not good for judging, not enough volume). Me and my three sons. I first poured the rahr in each of the cups, the sons were tasting blind, only I knew which was which.

SON1
Rahr
Aroma: Plain, slightly malty (5). Appearance: A bit hazy, good golden color(2). Flavor: More malty than most lighter styles (lagers, Pilsners), a definite session beer, great after taste, tastes like beer(17). Mouth feel: Medium body, good and carbonated, has a certain sweetness(3). Overall: Very high drinking pleasure, it could be improved with some coriander or other spice, maybe more flavor hops(8), Total score 35.
Home malt
Aroma: Very slightly malty, creamy smell (9). Appearance: A bit less hazy than #1, Same golden color, nice head and rising bubbles(2). Flavor: Has a slightly odd tinge taste possibly alcohol, undecided(16). Mouth feel: Carbonated well, has pilsner body, no cream taste, enjoyable(3). Overall: Not too shabby!(7), Total score 37.

SON2
Rahr
Aroma: Slight hop smell (3). Appearance: Foggy and light color with minimal head(2). Flavor: Malty, a little bitter but not hoppy(8). Mouth feel: Creamy and tingly(2). Overall: Not amazing but not horrifying (5), Total score 20.
Home malt
Aroma: Slight malty smell(3). Appearance: Foggy with some head, balder?(2). Flavor: Creamy soft with some hop bitterness(10). Mouth feel: Creamy smooth coolness?, slight thickness?(3). Overall: Smooth(5), Total score 23.

SON3
Rahr
Aroma: Slightly fruity, no hop aroma, a little malty(8). Appearance: Light yellow, mostly clear, good head(2). Flavor: Extremely light malt taste, no hops taste, can taste alcohol (15). Mouth feel: Good body, carbonated, creamy, not too thin(4). Overall: Very pleasurable (9), Total score 38.
Home malt
Aroma: Pale malt smell, no fruitiness, not real pungent (7). Appearance: Creamy head, very light yellow color, clear(2). Flavor: Malt flavor, less fruity than #1, dry alcohol aftertaste(13). Mouth feel: Not a whole lot of body, not real creamy, astringent(3). Overall: It was alright, not a lot of flavor(7), Total score 33.

Me
Rahr
Aroma: Light malt aroma, maybe butter(6). Appearance: Hazy, light golden color, honey color, good head, coarse bubbles (1). Flavor: Decent malt flavor for a light beer, well balanced, malty finish with astringent after taste (13). Mouth feel: Good carbonation, finishes warm, quite creamy feel(5). Overall: Good lighter beer (9), Total score 34.
Home malt
Aroma: Moderate creamy malt aroma, no hops (7). Appearance: Light honey color, hazy, good head, fine bubbles(2). Flavor: Light – Moderate malt flavor, enjoyable caramel finish, slight astringent after taste(16). Mouth feel: Creamy low to moderate body, good carbonation, slight astringent after taste(3). Overall: Above average light body beer(8), Total score 36.

I’m not calling this home malt a success as yet but at the least the beer is drinkable, what has me worried is the astringent taste. I’m wondering if the appearance of more hulls in the mash actually means something in that regard, we’ll see in a couple more weeks if the flavor profile changes much. Also, we are all new at this written judging thing and we all are into more dark, heavy beers than this, maybe I need to send a couple bottles out for non-biased judging? Sorry for all the hacking, Vern.

 

[Selfsufficient]

Subscribed, that is incredible. I'm not easily this impressed.

 

[WortMonger]

Keep the faith and wait for the beer to come into its own, lol. I can't wait till we are malting like we are brewing on here!!! It is coming and COLObrewer has planted the seeds of change. Grow it, malt it, brew it!

 

[COLObrewer]

Fellow brewers, Thought I'd update you on the home malt efforts, I used an old electric oven to create some roasted malts/barley as follows: I utilized one of the same hoards that I used in the kiln and roasted 5lbs at a time. All of it was roasted at about 350F at different durations, turning almost continuously. Make certain you do this outside as there is a ton of thick smoke while roasting. I will be utilizing some of these specialty grains (along with the malt I smoked earlier) for a planned smoked porter or smoked ale, all I need now is crystal and I will be able to make a dark beer completely from home malt (Crystal coming soon). I will also use a step mash with protein rest on the next batch(es).

Here is the black malt, roasted for 1 hour, turned about every 5 minutes:

Here is the Chocolate malt, roasted for 1/2 hour, turned about every 5 min:

And the Roasted Barley, roasted for about 3 hours, sprayed with water and turned about every 5 minutes, This was some of the same raw "seed" barley I used in the malting process:

Yet another labor intensive process that needs to be automated with some sort of rotating/heating device. The rotating bin I made for the kiln would not work for this due to the max temp of HDME being about 260F? Also the old freezer I use for kilning has some sort of plastic at the door seams. Currently I'm thinking of ditching the plastic rotating bin and making one completely out of stainless or brass screen with a shaft through the sides for the kiln as well as another one to fit in this old oven for roasting purposes. Possibly I can make them so the drive will be interchangeable so I can move it from kiln to oven readily.

In the mean time we've drained the home malt keg and the Rahr is almost empty, I popped a couple of bottles that have been in the cellar since bottled on 5-14, so about a month. Here is a pic of them, showing the Rahr (Right) has cleared but the home malt has not cleared yet, also notice there is more head on the home malt for some reason and it is more carbonated, it also retained the head throughout slurpage. Both tasted good with close to the same flavors/aromas as before:

And a pic next to a strong scotch ale sample from a batch I was kegging at the time (for comparison):

That is all

 

[bendavanza]

crap I just typed this message and prosted before posted, and lost the text, so I will try to remember what I typed.

The grains look great, I'm sure they smelled amazing, too. I think the SS rotating drum is a solid idea, with a port for the shaft in the oven.
So pardon my ignorance, but is the roasted barley not malted? What does the spraying with water do?
Also, I assume the 350 is an ideal temp for roasting, how will the process differ for the crystal malts?
Thanks
-Ben

 

[COLObrewer]

Yes the roasted barley is not malted, it gives a different coffee or roasted flavor for stouts, porters, etc. Also a nutty flavor for browns, etc. It's also used for color I think, deep red or brown colors.

The water spray is to keep the barley from flaming, for some reason raw barley will catch fire easier than malted barley, or so I've read.

Crystal malt is created from green malt (malted barley yet to be kiln dried). The process as I understand right now is to malt it, then kiln it enough to get the surface moisture off, then "mash" it whole to convert the starch to sugar so that it retains the longer chains (which are less fermentable) inside the whole kernel (crystalizing). That is what causes the retention of sweetness during the brewing process.

I don't know why it wouldn't work to simply soak whole pale malt for a period, then mash it whole for the same effect? You would still want to kiln it for grinding/storage and obtaining the different colors of crystal.

As far as I can tell, the different lovibond rating is obtained by the length of kilning/roasting after the crystalizing process, I've yet to determine any set length of time for creating say crystal 30L over say crystal 80L. The darker it is supposedly the more malt flavor, don't know why that would be yet.

As far as temperatures go, 350F was working good so that is what I stayed with, I think some maltsters go as high as 425F for different malts and roasted barley.

 

[brewmonger]

Could be, do they (Carcinogens) have a slightly smokey, slightly astringent flavor?

Its possible the astringent flavor is coming from the husks. If this was feed-grade barley (lower quality) there was probably thicker husks and less bulk to the grain. The husks are probably whats contributing astringency.

 

[mrkristofo]

Epic. Simply epic.

*subscribed*

 

[P-Lay]

... Yet another labor intensive process that needs to be automated with some sort of rotating/heating device. The rotating bin I made for the kiln would not work for this due to the max temp of HDME being about 260F? Also the old freezer I use for kilning has some sort of plastic at the door seams. Currently I'm thinking of ditching the plastic rotating bin and making one completely out of stainless or brass screen with a shaft through the sides for the kiln as well as another one to fit in this old oven for roasting purposes. Possibly I can make them so the drive will be interchangeable so I can move it from kiln to oven readily...

Even though I'm a long way off from getting to this point in brewing, I'm loving this thread. I recently came across this coffee roaster drum that got me thinking of this project. It's a bit costly for the diy-er at $110 and only does small 5 lb batches. Maybe someone wanting to try this out with smaller batches on their grill. I posted it in another thread and got the suggestion that the holes might be a little too large and the grain might fall through. This could be avoided by attaching a stainless steel or aluminum screen to the outside of the barrel - though, to some, this might defeat the purpose of buying one, instead of building one, in the first place. At the very least, maybe you could copy the design.

 

[COLObrewer]

. . I recently came across this coffee roaster drum that got me thinking of this project.

That would be perfect for roasting/kilning although it would take more time to do enough pale for a batch, but perfect for roasting specialty grains. I hadn't thought of using the grill, of course then one would need the rotisserie. It appears the holes are not too big, but it's hard to tell from the pics, I would think the holes could be a little over 1/8", but not much. Great suggestion!:rockin:

I'm currently looking at aquiring a commercial washer that has been removed from the building, it is all stainless inside and out and looks like it would hold 100lbs at least. It already has a large pulley on the drive end for turning, the holes on it MAY be too big though, easily fixed.

 

[zorro]

COLObrewer, I like your setup. I've mimicked your malting / couching floor and had some pretty decent results, but I need some help. This is my first time malting my own grains. I'm struggling to keep the grains from molding during the germination phase. Do you have this problem? If so, do I just ignore the mold - because it dies in the drying process? I don't know!!!

I only have access to corn and wheat where I live. I haven't found any barley yet. So, for my first batch I purchased about 75 lbs of wheat for $5 at the local grain elevator. I took about 15 pounds put them in my brewing pot and covered them with water overnight. The next day, I spread them in the malting floor the next day. Each day I stirred them and dumped about a glass or two of water on them to keep them moist - maybe this was too much. How moist do you keep your grains during the germination phase?

I had some mold and instead of letting the mold destroy the whole batch (maybe it already had), I put the grains in the homemade dehydrator (similar to your fridge dehydrator, but without the fridge). I got the grains to dry and then the next day I poured 5 gallons of hot water over them and let them sit in a thermos/cooler at about 140 degrees F. I didn't get much specific gravity improvement over plain water. I let it sit overnight and the next day it smelled sour, but a little better (but not good) on the SG ~ 1.01 . I ended up throwing out the batch, fearing contamination.

The only things I could think of which I didn't do correctly were:
1. I had some mold in the germination phase
2. I didn't crack the wheat before mashing.

Sorry for the long post, but do you have any suggestions?