Happiness is: Home malting

[COLObrewer]

Brewbecca, congratulations on your barley growing and harvest, that's a nice accomplishment.

. . . . . .
So I was collecting posts on the net, and here comes my first doubt: I found the most different and strange times of steeping and "breathing", some say 2 hours steep, others 8 hours, I even found a page where they say almost 24 hours!! Does it make any sense to you guys? What do you suggest?
!

I found the same thing when I started, I think some of them are using an air stone (or other method) to aerate the water while steeping. Basically you just want to make certain they get a good soak to start with, then make sure they don't dry out after that (while making sure they can "breath"), you shouldn't soak for more than 6-8 hrs without aeration because the barley will drown. Conversely, if you soak for only two hours, you will want to soak them again for at least two hours after maybe 2 hrs rest because you want them to start germinating. You're fooling them into growing

And about the germination stage: any hint about how often spray your barley with water? I found a page where a guy says he closes the soaked barley in a black plastic bag, seals airtight and leave it alone for few days...

The couching phase is basically the same as steeping except they are more spread out to keep from heating up and to allow mixing to keep them from becoming a mat of conglomerated barley/roots, also I've found the more you can move them around the more consistent the growing will be, try to keep the whole mass at the same temperature and moisture content.

It depends on temperature and humidity how much you need to spray them, also if they are covered loosely or not covered, I would definately not seal them in anything air tight for an hour, let alone a few days, they will die (and/or mold). You just need to make certain they don't dry out, I think I sprayed mine every 3 hours. You're still fooling them into growing.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

I found the same thing when I started, I think some of them are using an air stone (or other method) to aerate the water while steeping.

What if I leave the water running through the bucket? The flow of water should keep the seeds aerated. I think.

 

[COLObrewer]

What if I leave the water running through the bucket? The flow of water should keep the seeds aerated. I think.

Sure, the new water coming in will bring new oxygen with it, may be a waste of water though. Just a trickle would work but you don't want it too cold or hot, ideally 40F to 60F, also the more consistent temperature throughout the better.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

I started the malting process today. I'll try the flowing water instead of steeping-aerating, since I have a well that is supposed to be always trickling, otherwise it will get obstructed.

I lost A LOT of seeds that were floating during the washing phase: could it be because I grew the barley myself? No idea.

Anyway, I don't know whether anyone will ever do as I did, grewing some barley on a "manual" scale, but just something from my experience: I didn't use any chemical against weed, I was and still I am a bit against it, but guys, I think I'll do it next time. Weed is a real pain in the arse: not only it will take nourishment supposed to feed the barley, it will chock some barley, it complicates the harvest, the collecting, the threshing, and eventually you'll have barley full of dirt, small leaves, stalks etc.

Ok let's see the result of this first batch. Is there any way to judge the quality of malt, besides brewing it?

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . . . .
I lost A LOT of seeds that were floating during the washing phase: could it be because I grew the barley myself? No idea.
. . . . . . . . .
Ok let's see the result of this first batch. Is there any way to judge the quality of malt, besides brewing it?

I would expect alot of unviable seeds and chaff etc. The barley I used was run through the cleaning process at a batch plant and I still got about 1 lb of weed seeds and unviable barley seeds out of 50lbs, If the seeds floated they were bad anyway.

Without any laboratory testing and or sizing there is no other way I know of, if you're able when you mash it, you should use a step mash process. Let us know how it turns out.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[IslandMike]

What an awesome threat, just read it all and its interesting stuff. A definite Prost!

P.S. Hows that laundry machine conversion going?

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . .P.S. Hows that laundry machine conversion going?

Slow . . . I haven't touched it, I'm hoping to have some time in the next month or so. Hope springs eternal.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

Hello fellow maltsters
a quick update on my malting. Things could go better!

The seeds are germinating, and in my opinion are at 50% of the process, but:

1) the rootlets are of a greyish, weak color, I'd call it a dead color, very far from the lively white of the pics posted by COLObrewer; they are also quite dry. Is it because of the barley? Or more probably they drowned in the steeping process? The water has been flowing, but probably couldn't reach every point of the bucket; it should have been bubbling, but it would have required too much water.

2) I'm using two malting floors, since they're quite small and I wanted the layer to be thin in order to keep the seeds cool. So one malting floor has a quite homogeneous layer about 1" thick, the other, due to lack of seeds, is not fully covered, so there are areas with "isolated" seeds: so in the end, seeds in the latter floor haven't germinated almost at all. I think they dry very quickly, whereas a thick layer keeps the moisture longer.

I will go on anyway, drying the seeds when the times come, to keep discovering wrong procedures. Hope this will help others to come.

Cheers!

 

[wilceaser]

My vote for one of the all time top ten threads!
Awesome information.

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . . 1) the rootlets are of a greyish, weak color, I'd call it a dead color, very far from the lively white of the pics posted by COLObrewer; they are also quite dry. Is it because of the barley? Or more probably they drowned in the steeping process? The water has been flowing, but probably couldn't reach every point of the bucket; it should have been bubbling, but it would have required too much water. . . . . . .

I would have thought a spring would work, I saw a utube video of an old timer making whiskey and he malted his corn in a sack in a stream, left it in there for two days, then removed it and sprayed with warm water, etc.

You say it was in a bucket? How did the water circulate in the bucket? If they are still growing they may come out of it. I don't think it was a problem with your barley.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

I would have thought a spring would work, I saw a utube video of an old timer making whiskey and he malted his corn in a sack in a stream, left it in there for two days, then removed it and sprayed with warm water, etc.

That's a great idea. There's a small... ditch? trench? moat? (sorry for my english ) flowing near my house, I mean, it's quite small, not much water flowing, there could be bacteria, but... I'll give it a try!!
Maybe just a couple of libs. Keep on experimentig! :rockin:

PS: the seeds with grey rootlets are drying at the moment.

 

[Clayton]

Becca, you best bet is to get a 5 gallon bucket paint straner, fill the paint strain hafe full with barley and then top off the bucket with water. soke for 2 hours and then pull out the strainer , dump the water let drain and resoke untill your get the mosture level right.
i also floor malt. i have found that after the soke a very large wool blanket is a great tool for germenation and coucheing the malt. (couching is limiting the oxygen to the malt at the middle and end of the germanation to keep the arospire from growing to large and to alow time for enzyme production and minmize starch consumption by the sprout. i only malt in the late fall when the weather is just right i turn out the malt on to a wool blanken on a huge picnic table , how i spead it and and fold it controlls the temp and oxygen , sometimes i have to slip it in the plasic bag and or a refrigerator to control the rate of germenation. after that i move it on to the concreat floor of my shop to finish and for drying.

if you are trying to use well water to soke and sprout your grain via a trickeling hose placed in the bottom of the bucket, leting the water flow up ward and out, it will not work. deep ground water has nearly zero oxygen. if you are going to use the ground water you need to aeration and agitation to the water before it enter the bucket. it just like home brew you have to oxgenate the wort before you pitch the yeast.

drying the malt , its foggy because the shop is heated to 118F with propane heaters ,
had a few fans blowing down on the malt but thay are off camra

this is the malt after it has been dryed on the floor with large fans and propane heaters, after the floor drying it was loaded in to pillow cases that were tyed closed with tye wire and ran in the clothes dryer for 2 hrs on mid-hi heat.

after the tumble i used a fan to seperate the rootlets that were removed in the tumble from the grain with a fan. at this point I dont do any further drying , the malt feels very dry but may not be stable, as malt house kilm dry for hours - days. so i just store the malt in my cheast freezer with my hops and other grains. so far it has been very very enyzematice malt, i did some testing with cream ales and flaked corn from the Co-op ($7.50 55lbs) and was able to do a complete start converstion (iodine test) with the corn makeing up 45% of the grist

 

[Brewbecca]

Clayton, thanks so much for the info. Greatly useful.

if you are trying to use well water to soke and sprout your grain via a trickeling hose placed in the bottom of the bucket, leting the water flow up ward and out, it will not work. deep ground water has nearly zero oxygen. if you are going to use the ground water you need to aeration and agitation to the water before it enter the bucket. it just like home brew you have to oxgenate the wort before you pitch the yeast.

You're right, I should have thought about it... I only hope I'll not lose the second batch as well, I'm going through the normal process of soaking/aerating, but I already let the seeds in the water for 8 hours, and if the waters has nearly no oxy at all...

But why do you put the seeds in the refrigerator while germinating? Won't the seeds break, due to the water inside freezing?

 

[The Mad Hatter]

very cool!

 

[Clayton]

But why do you put the seeds in the refrigerator while germinating? Won't the seeds break, due to the water inside freezing?

good question, no they are in a refrigerator i use for beer fermentation, So it have a digital temp controller to let me set warmer temps like 50s F and 60s F. like this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-fermentation-chamber-build-105054/

 

[Brewbecca]

good question, no they are in a refrigerator i use for beer fermentation, So it have a digital temp controller to let me set warmer temps like 50s F and 60s F. like this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/side-side-fermentation-chamber-build-105054/

Nice one. This matter of couching is new to me, and even if it seems that mastering it makes a much better malt, it seems to be more obscure than the rest! So I guess I'll have to face it on a second stage, now I'm trying to get the basics of malting. The second batch of barley has lively whitish rootlets, so my deep water is good for soaking/aerating. I'm already not very satisfied by my drying equipment, the greenhouse, it works but it is nearly impossible to have the same process twice. Do you older maltsters think it will affect a lot the final qualities of the malt?

I'm also fond of the washing machine idea. COLObrewer, are you going to use the original resistance as a heat source during the drying? Is it enough? I mean, it is meant to warm water, not a flow of air?


Update: I'd better think about some couching, in less than 48 hours I got 5% overmodified barley...

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . . . . . .
I'm also fond of the washing machine idea. COLObrewer, are you going to use the original resistance as a heat source during the drying? Is it enough? I mean, it is meant to warm water, not a flow of air?...

No, I plan on using an outside air heater ducted into the machine and a fan to pull vacuum on it similar to the previous one.

. . . . .
Update: I'd better think about some couching, in less than 48 hours I got 5% overmodified barley...

I can't believe this, what are you using to determine full modification? You need to cut the kernels in half and inspect the acrospire, do not use the length of the rootlets/chits for this.

What is your water temperature?

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

I classified overmodified the ones with the acrospire breaking the kernel and coming out... guess they're over-overmodified then! 48 hours and it is done.

Don't know about the water temperature, I'll tell you next time I visit my malting spot (it's not at home, that's a little pain because it doesn't give me all time access to it), but I can tell you that when you dip your arm is quite chilling, I wouldn't bath in it. Say around 50/60 fahreneit.
The temperature in the malting room is about 80 fahreneit, while the floor itself should be more or less around 65.

 

[Clayton]

So Brewbecca how is the homebrewing world in Italy? have not seen many board members on here from there.

 

[Brewbecca]

So Brewbecca how is the homebrewing world in Italy? have not seen many board members on here from there.

Well, if I have to tell the truth, I don't know much about that since I'm not a homebrewer myself!!
I'm trying to become a maltster, and since this is the closest thing to a home maltsters' forum I joined the conversation. A friend of mine is the homebrewer, so I'm supposed to give him the malt.

Anyway, I think there's a lot going on in Italy, there are some websites about homebrewing with forums attended by many people; you can find easily ingredients on the net, there are even some shops in Northern Italy. There are a lot of professional microbreweries as well, there are 2 in my hometown (that makes 120,000 people, it's not that big) and you know, here it's not UK or Belgium or Germany where there are strong bier traditions, here wine come first.

So I think the language is the barrier, my homebrewer friend for example doesn't speak much english, he reads this forum searching for recipes and tips, but he's not confident to post, too difficult.

Anyway I still have a long way to go as a maltster, got my first green malt today, nearly 30% of seeds have got mould (I think a dark, almost black end of the seed is mould). The strange thing is that there wasn't any after germination. Probably during the night the greenhouse becomes too much humid. Ok, next try. Keep malting! :rockin:

 

[lurker18]

If the black ends are just on the hulls, don't worry about it. It can be something as simple as a varietal trait, could be sunburn while the crop is still in the field, it may be weathered from the environment. If the actual seed is starting to turn black, you have to peel the hulls of, called perling, to see this. You are allowed up to 0.5% of the seeds to have this. If there are 30% of the seeds that are affected internally, then there is a very big problem with where you are getting your malt from, or the stuff you are getting is feed barley and has not been accepted as malt.


Heated kernels, allowed 0.5%

The one on the bottom right is a good undamaged kernel.

 

[lurker18]

Smut kernels

Fusarium Kernels

If the black looks like these, and as you say 30% of the kernels are like this, this would not make malt. Smut is useable up to 5 kernels per kilogram, and fusarium is usable up to 0.2%, anythin over 1.0% does not even make good animal feed, as these contain toxins that can cause feed uptake problems in the animals.

 

[Clayton]

Brewbecca maybe you can get lucky and find this book on the cheep http://www.amazon.com/Malts-Malting-D-E-Briggs/dp/0412298007

yeah you need to start the drying fast , i use large fans blowing on the spead out malt as in the picture above

 

[COLObrewer]

Brewbecca maybe you can get lucky and find this book on the cheep http://www.amazon.com/Malts-Malting-D-E-Briggs/dp/0412298007 . . . . .

+1 If you want to go pro, this seems to be the book.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Clayton]

That's a great idea. There's a small... ditch? trench? moat? (sorry for my english ) flowing near my house, I .

I think the word you were looking for was stream or brook to me a brook is tiny and then larger you have a stream or creek then after that a river.

 

[COLObrewer]

I think the word you were looking for was stream or brook to me a brook is tiny and then larger you have a stream or creek then after that a river.

If it is a natural stream with nobody above you that would be great, make certain no-one is introducing any toxic chemicals into the water before it gets to you, etc.

Keep on malting my friends

 

[Brewbecca]

Thank you all guys for the support!!!

So I peeled the "black ends", removing the perling with a cutter, and to my big surprise the kernel inside is totally white. So tonight kilning in the house!!


Yeah if I want to use this brook water, I think I have first to go and check where it comes from. It's flowing between fields, it might be used for irrigation, but there are some small factories in the area as well, I wouldn't have their black water in my malt BTW I made a quick google images search, so with brook I can find only hot chicks in bikini, with trench raincoats and the like, so I'd say ditch is the one that fits most. Maybe I'll post a picture later.

The books looks as great as expensive, but I'll definetly think about it!

One last thing: I'm starting thinking about next year, when I'll (want to) process much more barley. So instead of the washing machine, I'm thinking about one of these:
http://blog.leiweb.it/marinaterragni/files/2008/12/betoniera-46.jpg
I know probably it wouldn't be ok for drying, but it can contain much more barley per batch.

 

[Brewbecca]

Ok maybe I've been a little too enthusiastic, some seeds are heated (but I know where they come from don't I? grown in my field), but it's quite difficult to peel them, the perling is very thin.
I decided I'm going to kiln anyway, I'm too curious to get my first malt!
Probably it will be pale ale, the simplest one, and if everything is ok, I'll toast some a bit more.
Hope not to fill the house with smoke!

 

[Brewbecca]

Kilned in two stages, my kitchen oven is not too big. It smells good, like toasted, it tastes like malt ahahah
Have to wait for brewing thought, till august when vacations come.
In the meantime I'm waiting for the book to arrive, and thinking about how to dry and kiln bigger quantities of barley. I was thinking about insulating a room in an old house, or building a hut; 212 fahreneit are not low temperature, so I think this must be planned. I'm not very into DIY up to now
I think I also have to use propanum as a source of heat, than a burner and something to spread the heat. Ideas?

(last night I couldn't sleep and I started looking for old harvester-threshers from the '20s and '30s ahah those were machine... first applications of combustion engines, before it was steam power)

 

[COLObrewer]

There is a whole series of floor maltings videos on youtube that may be helpful or at least give you some ideas, the best (most detailed) that I've found are for Highland Park Whiskey, the malting process is basically the same for beer and whiskey:
, .

One of the major differences is that most whiskey malt is dried/kilned with smoke.
There are more in the series, just do a search on youtube.

Keep on malting my friends