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American Wheat Beer Gumballhead inspired WPA

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DrDale

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I made a partial mash that came out phenomenal but disappeared way to fast. I hope to duplicate it soon!
 

Justibone

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My friend enjoys his partial mash version more than the all-grain version. He also likes it better bottled than kegged. He's made it four times or so, whereas I've only made it once (partial mash, bottled).

That's my $.02!
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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So any confirmed ways to keep the sweetness up in the end when doing an all grain batch? This beer was amazing (got another extract version brewed up 2 weeks ago), but I just upgraded to all grain and would like to make 10 gallons of this.
 

DrDale

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I am about to step into all grain myself, in asking around, some have said to add a little dme to the end of the boil.
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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Although it may change the taste slightly, I wonder if a yeast that is less attenuating would work to retain a higher FG and sweetness.
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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Just threw my second extract batch of this into secondary to dry hop with just an oz of amarillo this round, and the hydro sample was better tasting than the first batch. I fermented lower this go round (60 degrees F ambient temp).

But back to the discussion at hand to retain sweetness. I've just started doing all grain and have it stuck in my mind I want to find a way to keep that sweetness without having to add DME.

After reading a thread on an Oberon clone, they were having the same issues retaining the sweetness and ended up with a drier than desired beer. The solution they came up with (and might be more trouble than it's worth) was using a decoction method instead of single infusion.

I'm still very new at the all grain game, but do you think a decoction would allow some of the sweetness to remain in the final product?

Edit: The oberon clone mash schedule was a single decoction with a 15 min rest at 122 and then an hour mash for 156.
 

HawksBrewer

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To achieve a higher FG and resultant higher sweetness, you should mash higher, say 156-158*F. Cheers.
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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To achieve a higher FG and resultant higher sweetness, you should mash higher, say 156-158*F. Cheers.
I had mentioned that earlier but with objections that it would not fix the problem. It was determined that it would only increase body and mouthfeel, but I suppose like anything else, I need to try it and see where it lands the beer!

Thanks.
 

Justibone

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I'm not really sure. I could bull**** you, but I'm not 100% on that.

It's a place to start, though. Crystal also contributes color. I'd message Cuinrearview, or hit up your LHBS recipe expert.

I've read that Crystal should never make up more than 5% of your total grainbill, but that could be bull**** someone else fed me. ;)

Good luck!
 

DrDale

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How's it going D_ranged? I'm getting ready to try this again. The only issue I had with my last WIPA was that the crisp hop note faded after some time in the bottle. I love the Amarillo but am wanting to try the zombie dust clone which is similar to the gbh just uses lots of citra
 
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cuinrearview

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The freshness of the hop flavor and aroma coincides with the freshness of the beer, unfortunately there is no way around it.

I've thought for a while (and I think mentioned in this thread) that a decoction would probably be the best way to clone the extract/PM version of this beer. To me my all-grain recipe was missing the "cookie" or "sweet bread" taste that made the PM version so perfect. Having only read about the character that a decoction mash adds to a wheat beer I would recommend trying it as my first suggestion. I think that more crystal would take it in the cloying direction. A higher mash temperature would be my second suggestion but I'd be scared to mash at more than four degrees higher. I have not tried any of these things but the PM beer, to me at least, is so damn good it would be worth experimenting with if you are dead set on nailing it with the all grain process. I've read that some beers are just better brewed with extract and maybe this is one of those cases;).
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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How's it going D_ranged? I'm getting ready to try this again. The only issue I had with my last WIPA was that the crisp hop note faded after some time in the bottle. I love the Amarillo but am wanting to try the zombie dust clone which is similar to the gbh just uses lots of citra
The same thing happened to my first batch. As time went on, the hop flavor and aroma faded, but that's just a part of the life of beer. The intensity of the hops is naturally going to fade no matter what hop you use.

I will say that having brewed this only twice, and just kegging my second batch last night, going with citra/amarillo gives off very strong grapefruit flavors, while going simply with amarillo, it was more of a tangerine aroma and taste. So far both of them have been outstanding, and I'm leaning towards the amarillo only, but I'll know for sure by this weekend when the beer has some carbination to it.

I'm not really sure. I could bull**** you, but I'm not 100% on that.

It's a place to start, though. Crystal also contributes color. I'd message Cuinrearview, or hit up your LHBS recipe expert.

I've read that Crystal should never make up more than 5% of your total grainbill, but that could be bull**** someone else fed me. ;)

Good luck!

The freshness of the hop flavor and aroma coincides with the freshness of the beer, unfortunately there is no way around it.

I've thought for a while (and I think mentioned in this thread) that a decoction would probably be the best way to clone the extract/PM version of this beer. To me my all-grain recipe was missing the "cookie" or "sweet bread" taste that made the PM version so perfect. Having only read about the character that a decoction mash adds to a wheat beer I would recommend trying it as my first suggestion. I think that more crystal would take it in the cloying direction. A higher mash temperature would be my second suggestion but I'd be scared to mash at more than four degrees higher. I have not tried any of these things but the PM beer, to me at least, is so damn good it would be worth experimenting with if you are dead set on nailing it with the all grain process. I've read that some beers are just better brewed with extract and maybe this is one of those cases;).
Thanks for the input from you two on this subject matter. I guess finally get my all grain setup squared away last week has put me in the mindset of steering away from extract and trying to maximize the all grain techniques and aspects of brewing. The other determining factor that is keeping me from going PM or staying extract only is the challenge. It would be nice to come back with postive results on creating this beer purely out of all grain and nailing that same sweetness perceived from using malt extract.

To be completely honest, after brewing this a second time, it's going to become a house beer and something that will remain on tap all year long. It's just too damn good not to keep it around!

With that said, I'm planning on brewing this again in 2-3 weeks time and going to try one of the variations mentioned. It looks like a higher mash temp will be a good starting spot, and then decoction if that doesn't produce a desired result.
 

joshstokes122

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I picked up the ingredients to do my third batch of this a couple of days ago. Made the yeast starter yesterday to get ready to brew tomorrow and just realized that I had wrote down and bought the wrong yeast.

I picked up Wyeast Bavarian wheat 3056. Pretty sure I meant to pick up good old 1056. Oops. I guess I could go to my LHBS and pick up some 1056 before I brew, but I think I'll go ahead and try the Bavarian yeast. Any thoughts on how this might turn out?
 

Justibone

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I picked up Wyeast Bavarian wheat 3056. I guess I could go to my LHBS and pick up some 1056 before I brew, but I think I'll go ahead and try the Bavarian yeast. Any thoughts on how this might turn out?
It is sooooo good as is, I'd be afraid to experiment like that. If you really want to experiment, I'd pull off a gallon and ferment it separately.

The secret to really good German wheat beers is, like every other beer, cool fermentation temps. I used to ferment wheats warm, but Jamil Zainascheff made me a believer... cool-fermented wheats kick those banana-bread wheats right in the jimmy!

I don't know how the hops would go with a German wheat style yeast. I would tend to think they might be in conflict, but that is just a guess.

Seriously, this recipe is so good (you've made it before, right?) that I wouldn't mess with a whole batch of it just to experiment. :)
 

DrDale

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D_ranged,
I just made my second batch as well and its sitting in my secondary now for almost a week. I did use the Amarillo for both, 3oz in the boil and then another 1 for a week dry hop. Is that similar to your recipe?
 
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Once the beer cleared up in my keg, it seemed to have a lot better cleaner crisper flavor
This seems strange. Did you make the PM or all-grain version? Every time I've made the PM recipe I couldn't get after it fast enough turbid or not. But I was bottling then so maybe that makes a difference. The only batch I've kegged was my one attempt at all-graining it.
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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D_ranged,
I just made my second batch as well and its sitting in my secondary now for almost a week. I did use the Amarillo for both, 3oz in the boil and then another 1 for a week dry hop. Is that similar to your recipe?
I will have to take a look at my notes, but I only used Amarillo for the boil and dry hopping.

The second batch didn't come out as well as the first, but that was due to an error in accounting for DME and adjusting the hop schedule accordingly. It is still a great session beer, but it's not as good as the first batch.
 

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I'm starting this tomorrow. They were out of Simcoe hops so I'm trying it with German magnum instead. I'm told it's very similar. Any suggestions ? I couldn't quite find it here but due to the size of my pot I'll prob steep w around 2.5 gal. That sound alright? Thanks for all your help!
 

DrDale

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2 1/2 gallon steep is no problem. That's what I have been doing and everything seems to turn out OK. The only time it didn't really was when I had a large grain bill, other than that, you should be golden.
 

wranglerx16

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DrDale said:
2 1/2 gallon steep is no problem. That's what I have been doing and everything seems to turn out OK. The only time it didn't really was when I had a large grain bill, other than that, you should be golden.
Thanks , I've never used leaf hops .. I'm Brewing as we speak. Do you siphon them out or ferment w them?
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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I'm starting this tomorrow. They were out of Simcoe hops so I'm trying it with German magnum instead. I'm told it's very similar. Any suggestions ? I couldn't quite find it here but due to the size of my pot I'll prob steep w around 2.5 gal. That sound alright? Thanks for all your help!
There is no issues going this route. I would usually steep on my stove while heating my brewing liquor outside on the propane burner. It seemed to work very well, and it's the same technique used to make this the first time.

Also, on the hops, you can go with simply amarillo. It's a very tasty beer going with a single hop variety. With that being said, the first time this was brewed, I used Citra instead of Simcoe for dry hopping with great results.

That's the best part about this hobby though, having freedom and experimentation to do what pleases you. Good luck.
 

wranglerx16

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I started my brew on Thursday. The fermentation slowed down and I don't even see bubbles anymore. I'll still wait 9 days and probably transfer to a glass carboy to dry hop. First time w dry hopping as well as this recipe. Any suggestions?
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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I started my brew on Thursday. The fermentation slowed down and I don't even see bubbles anymore. I'll still wait 9 days and probably transfer to a glass carboy to dry hop. First time w dry hopping as well as this recipe. Any suggestions?
Let it sit in your primary for 3 weeks, and then either dry hop in the primary for 5-7 days, or move it to a secondary and dry hop for 5-7 days. Your beer will come out better if you give it an extra week on the yeast cake.
 

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made this just a few weeks ago, almost gone already. grapefruit was a bit strong for the first week, but really mellowed out towards the last 2/3 of the keg. loved it though, great on a nice hot day. Will make again soon, but im new to brewing so i have a few different types i want to get through first. since i have 3 kegs going though it shouldnt take too long to get around to it again. :)

i let it sit in the primary for 7-8 days and dry hopped for about 6. 2 weeks seems to be the most i can be patient for with all of my beers. after that its getting kegged ready or not!

only difference i had from the original recipe is i lost my last package of amarillo so i had to dry hop with simcoe only. next time ill DH it right, and do it all grain. thanks again for the excellent recipe!
 

DrDale

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Mine has been in the secondary about 2 1/2 weeks. I tasted it the other day and it seems better than the last time I made this. I am bottling tonight ;)
 

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Help!! I started my gmh on 4/19 I had an og of 1.054 like my recipe says I dry hopped on 5/12 and today just finished cleaning bottles and transferring to bottling bucket . My fg is 1.022 it says it should be 1.010. Never had this problem before. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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Help!! I started my gmh on 4/19 I had an og of 1.054 like my recipe says I dry hopped on 5/12 and today just finished cleaning bottles and transferring to bottling bucket . My fg is 1.022 it says it should be 1.010. Never had this problem before. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Extract, PM, or All grain? What temp did you ferment at? And did you take your reading before or after adding priming sugar?
 

wranglerx16

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It was the extract recipe I got from the database. Og 1.054 temp was 67-68 . I haven't added priming sugar yet I just have it in my bottling bucket on airlock now
 

D_Ranged_Eskimo

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Looks like you hit the 1.02 extract issue. You may want someone else with more experience to offer advice, but to be honest, possibly bottling as is with a smaller amount of sugar may jumpstart the yeast and finish out in the bottle.

It's a gamble, but it's possible it could restart the yeast to go back to work.

Someone else with more experience will be able to offer better advice though. Good luck!
 
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I have never experienced an under-attenuated batch of beer with this low of O.G. so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. If you truly fermented in the mid to high sixties ambient if anything you should have experienced higher attenuation with a few more esters in the finished beer. The beer itself would be in the low 70s at peak fermentation.

So, there should only be a handful of possibilities why this happened:

1) Your hydrometer is no longer calibrated. Easy to test. 60 degree distilled water should read 1.000
2) Too high of a temp during the mini-mash possibly due to a poorly calibrated thermometer. I doubt this would cause this big of a swing in F.G. though and your spot on O.G. suggests this was probably not the case.
3) Old extract. Sometimes old extract will attenuate poorly.
4) A bad batch of yeast. I have never had a bad sachet of US-05 but it could happen. Also if it got too hot either during fermentation or when pitched the population could have been killed(unlikely but I don't know your process).

Some things to consider. You can also post your recipe and process in the extract forum and I'm sure some other possibilities will surface. There are a lot of combined batches worth of experience on this site and I'm sure you'll get help getting to the bottom of it. Don't think there's much you can do for this batch but I assure you when you get it right you'll be glad you tried this recipe again if you choose to do so.
 

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when you're fermenting @ 62, is that ambient or wort temp? thanks, going to try this one today.
 

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I've bought these ingredients, but with a pound of flaked wheat, I guess we'll see what happens.
 
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when you're fermenting @ 62, is that ambient or wort temp? thanks, going to try this one today.
I use an ice water bath to keep my adhesive thermometer on the side of the fermenter at 62-64. Sometimes I get agressive adding ice bottles during peak fermentation and it reads 58-60. The key is to wait until you see a wee bit of activity to start slamming it down that low. I have had really good, clean results doing this with US-05 including a very nice psudeo-Marzen. Once fermentation starts you'd have to get it pretty cold to stop it. I've read that the temperature in the middle is hotter but with all of that swirling/convection I have a hard time believing it can be much more than a couple of degrees difference from what it reads from through a 1/4" glass or even less plastic. I treat my US-05 like my slave:D and it always does my bidding.
 

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thinking of making this as my next beer. what are the IBUs? also, i'm considering changing the hop bill slightly. i'm a new brewer and want to avoid reusing hops in order to learn as quickly as possible what certain hops taste/smell like. i've already used simcoe, summit, columbus, rakau, opal, and cascade.

could i successfully substitute for the simcoe dry hop? i realize it will change the beer a bit, but as long as it's still good i'm fine with it. my initial thoughts were citra, centennial, nelson sauvin, or sorachi ace. thoughts?

also, i have .5 oz of rakau sitting in the freezer that i would love to use up before it goes bad (i know this contradicts not using hops i've used before, but these are extras and not a new purchase). how about using this at flameout (instead of or in addition to amarillo)?

thanks in advance for your help.
 

wowbeeryum

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additionally, are there any other yeasts that might be fun/interesting to use? in my 4 batches i've only used 1056 and 3711, so trying something else would be cool. maybe american ale II? something else?
 
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