Guinness "Clone". Hope I followed the right process

[Sematary]

So
Here is my ingredient list:
2 lbs dme
3.3 lbs lme pilsen light
0.56 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 7.80 %
0.56 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 7.80 %
0.31 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.32 %
1.00 oz Target [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 23.4 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) Yeast-Ale

I did a 60 minute steeping at just around 175 - 180 degrees - a little higher than I had hoped for but I did get it down to around 170 eventually (last quarter hour). I placed the hops in at the same time I placed the grains in and kept moving the steeping bags around so nothing would burn.
I got the temp of the wort down to about 90 degrees in 20 minutes (thereabouts) and tossed my Irish ale yeast after shaking it up some. I tossed it directly and cold but it seems to be percolating nicely after about 15 hours or so. OG was 1.054.
I guess my concerns are that the temperature was too high for the barley and not quite hot enough for the hops. Also, I don't really know if I should have tossed the yeast cold (ie - straight out of the fridge essentially) or if I should have prepared it somehow or how any of this will affect the flavor in the end. Just wanted to see what you all thought.

My "goal" is to get to an all grain stout but I'm still working on the basics.

 

[tomoncanterbury]

Did you boil your wort? Typically you would steep the grains, then add the malt extract and start you 60 minute boil at which point you would throw in your hop additions at the specified times. (60 mins left in the boil in your case).
As far as your yeast, if it's a dry pack, re-hydrating is common practice but not everyone does it.

 

[Sematary]

Did you boil your wort? Typically you would steep the grains, then add the malt extract and start you 60 minute boil at which point you would throw in your hop additions at the specified times. (60 mins left in the boil in your case).
As far as your yeast, if it's a dry pack, re-hydrating is common practice but not everyone does it.

I did not. The instructions I was attempting to follow weren't super clear. I turned off the gas and added the lme and dme and turned the heat on low to get everything to break down fully - maybe another 10 minutes. But I never brought it to a boil. I'm guessing this was not how I should have done it? :-(

This is what I get for going from kits to doing it myself. sounds like I missed a step? Will it have a huge negative impact on the beer in the end? It does seem to be fermenting properly

 

[Sematary]

So, I was doing some reading on "no boil" brewing and the general consensus (as I saw it) seemed to be that as long as you kept it above 160 degrees for really any more than 30 seconds, you will kill any microorganisms that may pose a hazard. So, the only real downside I saw was that by not coming to a complete boil I may end up with a more bitter beer than otherwise I would have but the beer itself should be fine as long as I'm good with the final product (assuming I am). Does that sound about right?

 

[tomoncanterbury]

It'll still be beer. As far as I'm aware just the risk of infection and not getting the desired bitterness are the main downsides to not boiling your wort but other more experienced Brewers might have more insight.

 

[Sematary]

It'll still be beer. As far as I'm aware just the risk of infection and not getting the desired bitterness are the main downsides to not boiling your wort but other more experienced Brewers might have more insight.

That's sort of what I was thinking - 180 degrees is too hot for the grains I was using but not by alot and it is still more than hot enough to kill bacteria so I think it's safe in that respect but I think I'm going to wind up with a more bitter beer than originally planned for

 

[beermanpete]

You will likely have a beer that is less bitter that intended. The hops need to be boiled to isomerize the alpha acids which is the source of the bitterness. Above 170 degrees there will be some isomerization but to a lesser extent that at a full boil.

 

[McKnuckle]

Definitely read a brewing book or online reference like HowToBrew.com.

There are specific temperatures for all stages of brewing, and you can't really ignore them and expect a reliable process or end product.

Saccharification (mashing) and fermentation especially require diligent temp control. You tossed those out the window here. Luckily, the only grain in your recipe to suffer will be the flaked barley. It won't contribute much, because it needs enzymes from malted barley to convert its starches to usable sugars. The other grains should be okay just steeping for color, flavor, and to dissolve sugars from the crystal malt. The temp was too hot, but shouldn't be a disaster, and it should have pasteurized the grain at least.

Not boiling is a special technique, but is not at all standard and as others have pointed out, it means the hops were not utilized fully, and bitterness will likely be inadequate.

Also, hops don't typically go in with the grain in the mash/steep. They go in during the boil. Yes, people do what is called "mash hopping," but again, it is not a standard process, and it's done in addition to normal boil hopping.

Pitching yeast at 90º was another misstep - that is too hot. Sure, the yeast will ferment vigorously at that temperature, but they will probably produce fusel alcohols and esters that won't compliment the beer. Most ale yeast do best fermenting in the low to high 60s, especially at the beginning, less so after 3-4 days of fermentation.

 

[Sematary]

Definitely read a brewing book or online reference like HowToBrew.com.

There are specific temperatures for all stages of brewing, and you can't really ignore them and expect a reliable process or end product.

Saccharification (mashing) and fermentation especially require diligent temp control. You tossed those out the window here. Luckily, the only grain in your recipe to suffer will be the flaked barley. It won't contribute much, because it needs enzymes from malted barley to convert its starches to usable sugars. The other grains should be okay just steeping for color, flavor, and to dissolve sugars from the crystal malt. The temp was too hot, but shouldn't be a disaster, and it should have pasteurized the grain at least.

Not boiling is a special technique, but is not at all standard and as others have pointed out, it means the hops were not utilized fully, and bitterness will likely be inadequate.

Also, hops don't typically go in with the grain in the mash/steep. They go in during the boil. Yes, people do what is called "mash hopping," but again, it is not a standard process, and it's done in addition to normal boil hopping.

Pitching yeast at 90º was another misstep - that is too hot. Sure, the yeast will ferment vigorously at that temperature, but they will probably produce fusel alcohols and esters that won't compliment the beer. Most ale yeast do best fermenting in the low to high 60s, especially at the beginning, less so after 3-4 days of fermentation.

I misspoke if you got the idea I pitched the yeast at 90 degrees. I mixed the wort with 2 gallons of cooler water and pitched the yeast at 70 degrees.
I'ts been sitting in it's primary fermenter, which is itself sitting in a bucket of water (the ambient room temperature is 71 degrees - hence the water) at a perfect 68 degrees, happily perking along for over 24 hours now. Initial fermentation began around 16 hours after I pitched.

So, since I screwed up the initial boil, but apparently not TOO badly - would dry hopping with some bittering hops in the secondary fermenter make up for some of the lost bittering or would that just be a waste of time at this point?
So, I guess I can expect a sweet beer from this description?

 

[Miraculix]

Hops bitter only if they get heated in water above 80c. Dry hopping only gives flavour but nearly no bitterness.

 

[Sematary]

Hops bitter only if they get heated in water above 80c. Dry hopping only gives flavour but nearly no bitterness.

Fair enough. lesson learned.
Hopefully, despite my misfire on the boiling, the brew will come out good - if on the sweet side.

 

[Miraculix]

If you really think that the brew will be lacking bitterness way too much, than you could still brew a hop tea on the side and mix it with the fermenting batch. Although it would, depending on the volume, of course thin out the beer.

But I would also recommend reading a basic homebrew book as you lack some fundamentals. So maybe just keep this one as it is, read, and then brew a new batch with new knowledge and maybe a recipe lost beforehand so that people could stop you from doing obvious mistakes.

Than you can compare both brews afterwards and maybe you end up preferring the "faulty" one

 

[Sematary]

If you really think that the brew will be lacking bitterness way too much, than you could still brew a hop tea on the side and mix it with the fermenting batch. Although it would, depending on the volume, of course thin out the beer.

But I would also recommend reading a basic homebrew book as you lack some fundamentals. So maybe just keep this one as it is, read, and then brew a new batch with new knowledge and maybe a recipe lost beforehand so that people could stop you from doing obvious mistakes.

Than you can compare both brews afterwards and maybe you end up preferring the "faulty" one

I think I'm going to leave it as is. As stated, this was my first attempt without a script and was considerably more complex than the kits I had used (this wasn't a kit). So, who knows maybe the "faulty" one (which is fermenting quite nicely at 68 degrees) will come out really awesome, or it won't but as stated - lesson learned. And, I have been reading - apparently not enough yet. lol
Thanks for the input folks. The next batch (going to try a Coors lite clone for my wife) will be much better. I won't be able to lager at 35 degrees but my fridge is at 40. Going to use one of my currently empty "Mr. Beer" containers to do a small batch and see if she likes it (will remember to steep - remove, THEN boil the hops. lol)

 

[Miraculix]

You can use one of the Lager yeast strains that do work at room temperature. Search for the "warm fermented Lager thread" here in the forum.

 

[Sematary]

You can use one of the Lager yeast strains that do work at room temperature. Search for the "warm fermented Lager thread" here in the forum.

you don't think 40 degrees will be cold enough?

 

[Miraculix]

Don't know about that, but thought why use complicated stuff when it also works at room temperature with certain strains.

 

[Sematary]

Don't know about that, but thought why use complicated stuff when it also works at room temperature with certain strains.

I was just thinking that the flavor profile may be affected by a warm fermenting yeast as opposed to a cold fermenting yeast and that the difference in temperature could also have a negative affect on the end product. Unlike my beer, I want to make sure my wife's comes out the way I intended the first time. lol

 

[Miraculix]

I was just thinking that the flavor profile may be affected by a warm fermenting yeast as opposed to a cold fermenting yeast and that the difference in temperature could also have a negative affect on the end product. Unlike my beer, I want to make sure my wife's comes out the way I intended the first time. lol

Read the warm fermented Lager thread for that question!