Grainfather!!

[murphyslaw]

 

[thehaze]

That’s incredible! What’s your whirlpool technique? I thought all those hops would cause a clog for sure!

Let's say I brew an IPA with a 60 minutes boil.

I don't do bittering additions, so the first one comes at around 20-25 minutes left in the boil. Every few minutes, I add hops. 15 minutes before end of boil, I add Brewtan B and 10 minutes before end of boil, some Protafloc. At the same time I throw in the Protafloc, I also sanitize the chiller, by recirculating hot wort thru it.

At the end of boil, I recirculate the wort thru the chiller with really cold well water ( I have a pretty deep well ), with the element turned off. Depending on the season, it will take me some minutes to cool it down to about 150-160F. Here you will certainly make use of a paddle ( I have a long one made of SS ), as when you recirculate, the filter will partially clog. So gently brush it to clear it, when you hear the pump making noise and you can see the wort is not coming out at the same rate.

I stir/whirlpool once in a while, as the temperature showing while recirculating to chill is always misleading/a bit lower than it actually is.

Once I hit 150-160F, I dump in the whirlpool hops and then I whirlpool with my paddle, without splashing too much. The whirlpool action takes maybe 10-30 seconds, at which point I take the paddle out and let the hops steep. ( before whirlpooling, the controller will show you've hit the desired temperature, but... once you whirlpool and you " even " the temperature in the kettle, it will slighly rise - hence my recommendation to stir a bit when cooling it down )

I let the hops steep for 15 minutes, I come back and do another whirlpool and let it rest again for 5-15 minutes ( I whirlpool a few times, because I want more contact between the hops and the wort - they will sink/settle at the bottom and you'll get lower utilization/flavour ). The temperature is even lower by now. I sanitize everything and prepare to transfer the wort to the fermenter. I have a ThruMometer connected between the chiller and the silicone hose which leads to the fermenter, so I can actually see the temp of the wort going in the fermenter.

On the mouth of my Speidel fermenter, I always have a sieve and a hop bag, just in case, the wort is too " muddy ", but it does not happen. It's more of a precaution. I begin the transfer and the first liter ( 1/4 gallon ) is a bit dirty, but then it clears and the rest is very clear wort.

It is very clear due to all things I've done above: I use Protafloc, which helps settle the trub and hops after the whirlpool. The whirlpool itself at a lower temp. helps tremendously and makes for a very nice compact cake at the bottom of the Grainfather. Give it enough time, after you whirlpooled ( you can whirlpool even if you are not using a lot of hops - I do it, because I want clear wort and less trub in the fermenter ) and most trub will settle.

Maybe I will take some pictures next time.

PS: The filter on the Grainfather can easily come out with a more agressive whirlpool, so I found a few SS rings/ties and always fasten the filter, so it stays put even when I brush it to clean it.

I also don't do flameout hops, as flameout means boiling temperature, so they will add more bitterness than intended. I happy with lots of late additions and a big whirlpool at 150F. ( at the same time, remember that the hops I add at 5 minutes before end of boil, they will actually add a bit more bitterness, because it takes a while to cool down the wort - so they actually " boil " for more than the 5 minutes intended)

 

[murphyslaw]

At the end of boil, I recirculate the wort thru the chiller with really cold well water ( I have a pretty deep well ), with the element turned off. Depending on the season, it will take me some minutes to cool it down to about 150-160F. Here you will certainly make use of a paddle ( I have a long one made of SS ), as when you recirculate, the filter will partially clog. So gently brush it to clear it, when you hear the pump making noise and you can see the wort is not coming out at the same rate.

I stir/whirlpool once in a while, as the temperature showing while recirculating to chill is always misleading/a bit lower than it actually is.

Once I hit 150-160F, I dump in the whirlpool hops and then I whirlpool with my paddle, without splashing too much. The whirlpool action takes maybe 10-30 seconds, at which point I take the paddle out and let the hops steep. ( before whirlpooling, the controller will show you've hit the desired temperature, but... once you whirlpool and you " even " the temperature in the kettle, it will slighly rise - hence my recommendation to stir a bit when cooling it down )

I let the hops steep for 15 minutes, I come back and do another whirlpool and let it rest again for 5-15 minutes ( I whirlpool a few times, because I want more contact between the hops and the wort - they will sink/settle at the bottom and you'll get lower utilization/flavour ). The temperature is even lower by now. I sanitize everything and prepare to transfer the wort to the fermenter. I have a ThruMometer connected between the chiller and the silicone hose which leads to the fermenter, so I can actually see the temp of the wort going in the fermenter.

When you stir while chilling down to 160, you must be taking the chiller off the GF, right? And then again whenever you whirlpool, you're taking the chiller off, stirring, and putting the chiller back on?

 

[thehaze]

No, I'm not taking the chiller off and on. The chiller sits next to the Grainfather on a chair, so the kettle is not obstructed in any way.

 

[murphyslaw]

No, I'm not taking the chiller off and on. The chiller sits next to the Grainfather on a chair, so the kettle is not obstructed in any way.

Gotcha. Thanks.

The placement of the chiller has always seems like a problem when it comes to whirlpooling, but I suppose there's no real reason it has to sit on top.

 

[thehaze]

The chiller sits at about the same level as the top end of the Grainfather, so I can easily hook it up, sit on a chair, and still have the other end of the chiller go into the Grainfather. But you can always buy some more silicone hose and make the ends longer if needed.

But with the " setup " I'm using, everything is pretty easy and without major headaches, which I like.

 

[murphyslaw]

The chiller sits at about the same level as the top end of the Grainfather, so I can easily hook it up, sit on a chair, and still have the other end of the chiller go into the Grainfather. But you can always buy some more silicone hose and make the ends longer if needed.

But with the " setup " I'm using, everything is pretty easy and without major headaches, which I like.

Thanks. I may try the same thing.

_________________________________

It bothered me that the BS water volumes were always off from the GF app. The GF app is so nice to use on brew day, but nothing beats BS for recipe formulation and data tracking, IMO.

I found one guy (TeBake? something like that) who put out a profile that was close. I've tweaked it a bit and now my total water volumes are the same in GF and BS, the only difference is that BS favors my strike volume by 0.1 gallon. Anyway, in case its helpful for anyone else, here's a screenshot.

I run 6 gallon batches by default so I don't come close to picking up trub even in a NEIPA when packaging.

 

[bigtex52]

The chiller sits at about the same level as the top end of the Grainfather, so I can easily hook it up, sit on a chair, and still have the other end of the chiller go into the Grainfather. But you can always buy some more silicone hose and make the ends longer if needed.

But with the " setup " I'm using, everything is pretty easy and without major headaches, which I like.

Precisely what I did, added 4' of input hose to the CF chiller so it could sit on the counter behind the GF and next to the sink out of the way.

 

[slingkong]

Just search Amazon for a step up or down transformer. For a 2000 watt grainfather you would want to go with a 3000 watt unit which can be had for $100 or less and can plug into any 110/120 recepticle in your house. It is to bad the US model doesn't have at least a 1800 watt unit. My commercial induction cooktop works just fine to do full boils and not just a simmer like the grainfather.

So a step up transformer can simply increase the current at 110/120V to provide additional power to the GF?

 

[skleice]

Why is there such a discrepancy between my brewersfriend and grainfather recipe? Brewersfriend shows my ABV as 6.54%, but when I import to grainfather it is 7.4%. OG's are the same, but FG's are different. I've double checked that all of the numbers are correct after the import. This is the case for everything I convert.

 

[murphyslaw]

Why is there such a discrepancy between my brewersfriend and grainfather recipe? Brewersfriend shows my ABV as 6.54%, but when I import to grainfather it is 7.4%. OG's are the same, but FG's are different. I've double checked that all of the numbers are correct after the import. This is the case for everything I convert.

I don't have an answer for you, but I would trust BF and just use the GF app for the process functionality/connectivity.

 

[skleice]

I don't have an answer for you, but I would trust BF and just use the GF app for the process functionality/connectivity.

Yeah that's what I've been doing so far, just wondered if I was doing something wrong. I'll definitely stick with BF. GF is missing some features like whirlpool temps, etc Thanks!

 

[pkgmsu2000]

I knocked off my filter during the whirlpool, I couldn't do much about it so I just waited a bit longer for everything to fall out before transferring. It worked great! I didn't take apart the pump, i just blew some air back through it and called it good.

use a SS hose clamp to hold the filter in place

I currently dough in at the set mash temp, so I know that there is a short drop then. I used to stir the mash in the cooler every 20 min, and stir during the batch sparge as well. Maybe I should be stirring the mash in the GF too?

i start doughing in now at the protein rest of 122 deg F

Gotcha. Thanks.

The placement of the chiller has always seems like a problem when it comes to whirlpooling, but I suppose there's no real reason it has to sit on top.

exactly, move the chiller to where you want it, i think most of us have done that already

I don't have an answer for you, but I would trust BF and just use the GF app for the process functionality/connectivity.

exactly, i have found the GF calcs to be close but not exactly where i want them to be. it is a trial and error process and will take a few batches to "dial-in" your system

 

[bigtex52]

I have a question, and sorry for the back to back posts... I have done 6 batches in the grain father and all of them have had a much higher FG than I was expecting. On my old system s-05 would always go sub 1.010 but now I am in the high teens. Any ideas????

I experienced the same higher FGs with my GF. I did a bunch of online research and discovered the following on John Palmer's website: "A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer."

The complete link is as follows: http://www.howtobrew.com/book/secti...s/the-starch-conversion-saccharification-rest

Hope that helps. Cheers!

 

[pkgmsu2000]

I experienced the same higher FGs with my GF. I did a bunch of online research and discovered the following on John Palmer's website: "A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer."

The complete link is as follows: http://www.howtobrew.com/book/secti...s/the-starch-conversion-saccharification-rest

Hope that helps. Cheers!

JP really knows his homebrew! What i have found is that the mash temps going on are ACTUALLY a bit higher that what the GF probe says, as there is only one temp probe and its only in one location. 1-2 degrees can really make a difference in taste of beer.

Also, for those who feel they are having pump issues... CLEAN YOUR PUMP!!!! remove the pump from the GF unit, remove the inlet pipe, remove all the gaskets, tubes, and "fixing rings". Toss all of the non-SS plastic pieces in a bowl (especially propeller) of warm water and degreasing soap. Get that sucker (pun intended) completely off and stripped down. a good thorough cleaning every few batches will save you A LOT of time of brew day. the pump will run like a champ, like new. you can even go back to using the ball and spring again and wont have to worry about shooting your eye out with scalding hot wort.

 

[Kampenken]

I currently dough in at the set mash temp, so I know that there is a short drop then. I used to stir the mash in the cooler every 20 min, and stir during the batch sparge as well. Maybe I should be stirring the mash in the GF too?

I've had the GF for about 2.5 yrs now and have a learned a few things- so here's my thoughts. I always dough in about +10F as strike temp- sometimes I'll calc it if odd size batch. I dough in thoroughly and when I'm done I take temps of the grain bed. They will almost always read my strike temp, and be about 10F below the GF readout. The GF probe is IMO not where you want to measure temps. I'm guessing if you dough in at mash temp you're a good 10 below and the GF won't correct for a long time. But your miss is high?? Huh, not sure, but that's my best practice.
I've done exactly what you've asked too. Stir the mash. Given your concern I suggest you do that. Stop the recirc at 15-20 min in and stir it up and take temp readings. Repeat 15-20 later. You'll learn about your system and it will only help your beer. Granted this adds more hands on activity. I have also done this if the recirc is very slow - tho I do then add rice hulls too.
Good luck with getting if dialed in. It works nice when you learn these quirks.

 

[Nickbtag]

Ok so finally pulled the trigger and ordered my GF the other night! NB were offering 20% off and the wife gave the green light. Expected delivery is next Wednesday and I am so stoked! I’ve been sleuthing these boards for a few months and looking forward to putting a lot of the great info into practice myself.

 

[couchsending]

After close to 100 batches now here are a few things I’ve learned. Definitely take everything apart related to the pump and clean it frequently. I don’t do it enough. The pipe on the outside will get a shocking amount of gunk built up in it.

I don’t start heating to boil until I’m almost done with the Sparge. I don’t want my mash bed heating up at all and possibly extracting any tannins. I know it takes more time but it’s worth it to me, just in case.

I use a strainer bag over the mash basket to collect all the little pieces that would end up in the kettle before. For me I have to mill close to .040 to get efficiency over 80% but the holes in the mash screen are way too big for that tight of a mill setting. I’ve tried multiple options and the strainer bag worked the best. BIAB bag would probably work too.

I’ve actually stopped using the counterflow chiller. I’ve got a well so my water gets really cold but I’ve had better luck using an immersion chiller and getting the wort down to 70ish and can keep almost all the cold break in the kettle. Then just use the mash piping to transfer to FV. Makes cleanup faster too. And after seeing what’s inside the external pipe after cleaning it I really wonder what the inside of that CFC looks like. I use PBW for every cleaning.

 

[skleice]

After close to 100 batches now here are a few things I’ve learned. Definitely take everything apart related to the pump and clean it frequently. I don’t do it enough. The pipe on the outside will get a shocking amount of gunk built up in it.

I use a strainer bag over the mash basket to collect all the little pieces that would end up in the kettle before. For me I have to mill close to .040 to get efficiency over 80% but the holes in the mash screen are way too big for that tight of a mill setting. I’ve tried multiple options and the strainer bag worked the best. BIAB bag would probably work too.

I need to consider both of these things. I brew with gluten free grains (millet, rice, buckwheat) and they are very small. Im only two brews in on my GF, but both had problems when pumping to the fermenter via the cfc. The issue was not hops, but grain that had snuck into the boil. Im betting that there's some buildup in the pump already. Im gonna change my crush a bit first, but may try my old biab bag. Cheers

 

[couchsending]

Oh yeah if your filter comes off or you forget to even put it on, a long pair of BBQ tongs works great. It’s actually pretty easy to get it on even when you can’t see what you’re doing.

 

[skleice]

Anybody have a guess as to how much a custom bottom mash plate (smaller holes) would cost from a machine shop?

 

[Gman1954]

Why is there such a discrepancy between my brewersfriend and grainfather recipe? Brewersfriend shows my ABV as 6.54%, but when I import to grainfather it is 7.4%. OG's are the same, but FG's are different. I've double checked that all of the numbers are correct after the import. This is the case for everything I convert.

>Heh "skleice", I had a problem with a GF NEIPA Recipe formulation using Burlington Yeast: it was not listed on the GF Yeast options, and the "custom yeast" had an Attenuation that was way too low. You can change this setting to be the same as Brewers Friend or what the Manufacturer has listed. GF Support added Burlington yeast btw within a few days: very cool!
>"Ccceric" Mash Temp is a big determinant of the FG, monitor with a Calibrated Therm. to see if your mash temp is what you think it should be. Also: Stir it up!
> Batch size: GF now sells a Short Pipe set up for small 2-3 gallon batches.
I traded my LHBS my 10 gal Three Tier Beer Tree for a GF = love it.. but it does takes some getting used to.
regards from, GMAN

 

[Minky]

I don’t start heating to boil until I’m almost done with the Sparge. I don’t want my mash bed heating up at all and possibly extracting any tannins. I know it takes more time but it’s worth it to me, just in case.

I don't understand what would cause your mash bed to heat up. Are you not sparging with the basket sitting up on top?

 

[couchsending]

I don't understand what would cause your mash bed to heat up. Are you not sparging with the basket sitting up on top?

Heat rises.. if as you get close to boil the grain bed sitting above the hot wort gets even over 175 you run the risk of tannin extraction. I’ve never measured it and who knows it might not be an issue. But I have no problem adding 30 minutes to the day to ensure it doesn’t happen.

 

[skleice]

>Heh "skleice", I had a problem with a GF NEIPA Recipe formulation using Burlington Yeast: it was not listed on the GF Yeast options, and the "custom yeast" had an Attenuation that was way too low. You can change this setting to be the same as Brewers Friend or what the Manufacturer has listed. GF Support added Burlington yeast btw within a few days: very cool!
>"Ccceric" Mash Temp is a big determinant of the FG, monitor with a Calibrated Therm. to see if your mash temp is what you think it should be. Also: Stir it up!
> Batch size: GF now sells a Short Pipe set up for small 2-3 gallon batches.
I traded my LHBS my 10 gal Three Tier Beer Tree for a GF = love it.. but it does takes some getting used to.
regards from, GMAN

Thanks, man. I just wrapped up another brew with the micropipe. Nailed my gravity. I just use BrewersFriend to formulate my recipes and then transfer over. Also, the mash volumes work great, but the sparge water is always short. No biggie, as I always heat up extra. Love my GF so far.

 

[SanPancho]

now that there's bluetooth does it send you any messages or notifications when things happen, like mash finishing, hitting boil temp, or when boil is over?

or do you still need to monitor your own progress with regards to time periods,etc.

 

[RedlegEd]

now that there's bluetooth does it send you any messages or notifications when things happen, like mash finishing, hitting boil temp, or when boil is over?

or do you still need to monitor your own progress with regards to time periods,etc.

Hi. As long as the BT remains connected, you get alerts (mash, MO, boil, hop additions, other additions, etc.) based on how you set up your recipe in the GF App. If you're near the GF, the box itself will also provide an audible signal and prompt. Hope this helps. Ed

 

[skleice]

now that there's bluetooth does it send you any messages or notifications when things happen, like mash finishing, hitting boil temp, or when boil is over?

or do you still need to monitor your own progress with regards to time periods,etc.

It works very well. It's pretty hard to forget a step or an ingredient if it's entered into your recipe.

 

[mmmWord]

Hi all,
Have read through this whole thread. Thanks to everyone for all the tips; I made an account to post this. I spent a fair while looking for a Beersmith equipment profile which worked for the grainfather, but never managed to find one which made sense. Most of the ones floating around the internet have some weird kludges: "top up water" when you aren't adding any, 'Lauter tun losses' etc. Anyway, starting with one I found somewhere (maybe here) I made some modifications which seem to reflect what's actually going on, rather than kludging to make the numbers work. This has produced the atatched profile. It's still a work in progress, but just thought I'd post it in case it saved anyone else some time.

Basically, this seems to produce the correct volumes most of the time for me.

A few notes:
1) Important: not shown here, I have set my grain absorption to 0.8. I guess that leaving the malt pipe over the unit for a while gets more wort out than in your average 3v system for which Beersmith was designed. This, I think, is the cause of the kludges in some of the other profiles. Not ideal changing a global setting, but I only have one brew system so hey.

2) I have been struggling with efficiency, tending to often not hit my aspirational 73% brewhouse efficiency. Can't really figure out why -- my sparges go super fast, and the grain still tastes pretty sweet afterwards, so I wonder if it's crush but I don't have much choice there (LHBS crushes for me, have tried a couple of different shops). However, this isn't really relevant to whether the profile works for you.

3) I'm on 240v in NZ so boil-off rates will differ for those in the US. Also metric units, no apologies for that

4) Still fiddling with whirlpool utilisation etc - depends on your method.

Feedback welcome.

 

[couchsending]

2) I have been struggling with efficiency, tending to often not hit my aspirational 73% brewhouse efficiency. Can't really figure out why -- my sparges go super fast, and the grain still tastes pretty sweet afterwards, so I wonder if it's crush but I don't have much choice there (LHBS crushes for me, have tried a couple of different shops). However, this isn't really relevant to whether the profile works for you.

Your super fast Sparge is the issue. With the Grainfather your efficiency is directly tied to this. The faster your sparge the less sugar you’ll extract from the grains. You could ask them to double mill maybe?

Grain bills high in Flaked adjuncts tend to Sparge really slow and you’ll get really high efficiency. I’ve never even had close to a stuck sparge with the Grainfather. You definitely don’t ever need to use rice hulls in my opinion even with up to 40% wheat I’ve had zero issues. Tons of Rye, no problem... lots of oats, no problem.