Grainfather!!

Williams 728
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RedlegEd said:
Hi. While we're talking about comparisons, here's one on the GF vs the new Robobrew. Ed
:mug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6xSZNMf8hs
Click to expand...

He notes Robo as 1/2 price of GF, I checked and indeed in Australia the price is 1/2 price, if that holds (not sure why it wouldn't) the GF is in trouble, especially if they go to 110v here. The Mash & Boil will be in worse shape in comparison.

Few more questions I have- Does that I/C reach fully to the bottom (or within say an inch) of the boiler's false bottom? It doesn't appear that the pipe rise is enough to clear the boiler from that video, and doesn't help that he knocked it off the table too I'm sure! :) Is there bottom access to the pump for leak checks and potential fixing / replacing? What is pump flow rate? (presumably it is similar to GF). Why do all the videos take place in such a bad location??! :D

On reddit, a comment we're all familiar with (on the non-pump Robobrew): "I was aiming for a 68'c mash. I was set to 69' at the bottom and was reading between 62-65' at the top between my manual recirculations"

With some more answers, folks have a lot of choices. Interesting too, if it remains 240v I bet there will be larger scale brewers who will jump all over the 65L capacity one too. Interesting choices coming our way! Still love my GF, making consistent and great beer, quite easy, sleek all-in one system.
 
The Robobrew appears to have a 1900 watt and a 600 watt element.

The 1900 watt element will not run on 120VAC, 15A. The 1900 watt element would run on a 120VAC 20A circuit. Both elements running at once, as is demonstrated in the video, would pull 2500W/120V = nearly 21A. That would require a 120V 30A circuit, the next step up from 20A. A 30A circuit requires #10 AWG wire.

I'm pretty sure the Robobrew is wired for 220VAC in Europe and 240VAC in North America.

There are 2 ways to get 240VAC in a kitchen without rewiring anything.

1) Plug the unit into the stove plug. This will require replacing the stove breaker with a GCFI breaker.

2) Find 2 120VAC plugs that are wired to opposite sides of the 240VAC supply. Build an adapter cord to go from 2 120VAC plugs to the 240VAC plug that the unit requires. The breakers on both 120VAC circuits will need to be replaced with GFCI breakers. This circuit will function exactly like a normal 15A 240VAC circuit would.

One can pull 240VAC x 15A = 3600 watts from 2 120VAC plugs wired to opposite sides of the 240VAC supply.
 
brewman ! said:
The Robobrew appears to have a 1900 watt and a 600 watt element.

The 1900 watt element will not run on 120VAC, 15A. The 1900 watt element would run on a 120VAC 20A circuit. Both elements running at once, as is demonstrated in the video, would pull 2500W/120V = nearly 21A. That would require a 120V 30A circuit, the next step up from 20A. A 30A circuit requires #10 AWG wire.

I'm pretty sure the Robobrew is wired for 220VAC in Europe and 240VAC in North America.

There are 2 ways to get 240VAC in a kitchen without rewiring anything.

1) Plug the unit into the stove plug. This will require replacing the stove breaker with a GCFI breaker.

2) Find 2 120VAC plugs that are wired to opposite sides of the 240VAC supply. Build an adapter cord to go from 2 120VAC plugs to the 240VAC plug that the unit requires. The breakers on both 120VAC circuits will need to be replaced with GFCI breakers. This circuit will function exactly like a normal 15A 240VAC circuit would.

One can pull 240VAC x 15A = 3600 watts from 2 120VAC plugs wired to opposite sides of the 240VAC supply.
Click to expand...
@brewman ! That's a good analysis of the power requirements for the Robobrew. However, I think most people who want to buy this (or the Mash & Brew, or the GF,) really don't want to screw around with building adapter cords or adding a GFCI to their kitchen stove circuit. Rather, I suspect (like many of us in this forum,) we bought the GF because we wanted simplicity and compactness, and it's pretty much "plug and play" right out of the box (actual brewing not withstanding, of course. :) ) If the price really does come in at about 1/2 of the GF (I'm assuming current, standard controller [not the "Connect Controller",]) then I suspect the GF will really have some competition. I'm sure the Mash & Brew will take some of that "all in one" market share, but the fact it doesn't recirculate or have either a CFC or IC will have an impact on sales. Ed
:mug:
 
RedlegEd said:
@brewman That's a good analysis of the power requirements for the Robobrew. However, I think most people who want to buy this (or the Mash & Brew, or the GF,) really don't want to screw around with building adapter cords or adding a GFCI to their kitchen stove circuit. Rather, I suspect (like many of us in this forum,) we bought the GF because we wanted simplicity and compactness, and it's pretty much "plug and play" right out of the box (actual brewing not withstanding, of course. :) ) If the price really does come in at about 1/2 of the GF (I'm assuming current, standard controller [not the "Connect Controller",]) then I suspect the GF will really have some competition. I'm sure the Mash & Brew will take some of that "all in one" market share, but the fact it doesn't recirculate or have either a CFC or IC will have an impact on sales. Ed
:mug:
Click to expand...

If people don't want to "screw around" with adapter cords or wiring up a stove cord, then they should be happy with a 1500 watt element and the related slow heat up times and tepid boils. Because 1500 watts is about all you can draw from a standard 120VAC 15A circuit. Once you start drawing closer to 1800 watts for extended periods of time you chance tripping a weak breaker.

I boiled 5 gallons with 2500 watts last weekend. You guys with 1500 watts are patient ! I'd be happy to rewire or wire a special plug for more power.

I'm probably going to put a 240VAC 20A plug in my kitchen this weekend. It is relatively easy for me to do because the basement ceiling is still open underneath it. We'll be tapping into stove plugs when we brew at my buddies houses.
 
RedlegEd said:
@brewman ! That's a good analysis of the power requirements for the Robobrew. However, I think most people who want to buy this (or the Mash & Brew, or the GF,) really don't want to screw around with building adapter cords or adding a GFCI to their kitchen stove circuit. Rather, I suspect (like many of us in this forum,) we bought the GF because we wanted simplicity and compactness, and it's pretty much "plug and play" right out of the box (actual brewing not withstanding, of course. :) ) If the price really does come in at about 1/2 of the GF (I'm assuming current, standard controller [not the "Connect Controller",]) then I suspect the GF will really have some competition. I'm sure the Mash & Brew will take some of that "all in one" market share, but the fact it doesn't recirculate or have either a CFC or IC will have an impact on sales. Ed
:mug:
Click to expand...
Exactly. Folks who don't own the GF continue to miss this critical advantage point of plug and play. If Robobrew doesn't go 110 I think they miss a large market segment.

brewman ! said:
If people don't want to "screw around" with adapter cords or wiring up a stove cord, then they should be happy with a 1500 watt element and the related slow heat up times and tepid boils. Because 1500 watts is about all you can draw from a standard 120VAC 15A circuit. Once you start drawing closer to 1800 watts for extended periods of time you chance tripping a weak breaker.

I boiled 5 gallons with 2500 watts last weekend. You guys with 1500 watts are patient ! I'd be happy to rewire or wire a special plug for more power.

I'm probably going to put a 240VAC 20A plug in my kitchen this weekend. It is relatively easy for me to do because the basement ceiling is still open underneath it. We'll be tapping into stove plugs when we brew at my buddies houses.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've got your mind made up, good for you! I agree I would like the faster times (yes I can add a boil stick, I know) but I like the versatility of where to brew more. Tepid boils? Written from one with no GF experience, so all who read should take that into account.
 
brewman ! said:
If people don't want to "screw around" with adapter cords or wiring up a stove cord, then they should be happy with a 1500 watt element and the related slow heat up times and tepid boils. Because 1500 watts is about all you can draw from a standard 120VAC 15A circuit. Once you start drawing closer to 1800 watts for extended periods of time you chance tripping a weak breaker.

I boiled 5 gallons with 2500 watts last weekend. You guys with 1500 watts are patient ! I'd be happy to rewire or wire a special plug for more power.

I'm probably going to put a 240VAC 20A plug in my kitchen this weekend. It is relatively easy for me to do because the basement ceiling is still open underneath it. We'll be tapping into stove plugs when we brew at my buddies houses.
Click to expand...

What's with the tepid boil comment? Maybe, if you are brewing in a very cold environment with no wrap or Graincoat, but brewing in the kitchen (which is why I bought a GF in the first place), I still have to stir down foam at time to prevent boilovers. I also have a complete Kal's Clone system that I built from scratch that works very well, but when I want a simple 6 gallon brew session in an air conditioned and heated environment, the GF fits the bill very adequately. Hope you get your own situation worked out. :mug:
 
I get all of the arguments he makes against the grainfather, but missed a couple of things. First, all of the parts on the outside make it easier to possibly upgrade parts, such as a new controller, in the future, where as you are more likely stuck with what you have having it all built in. also, I hate the idea of having the controls on the bottom. It is only really conducive if you have the unit set on a counter top. Otherwise you are bending over every time you need to change temps, turn on/off pump, switch elements.

The only thing I would say this unit has over the grainfather, aside from possibly better heating ( which I dont care about because I am using 120v), are handles (as well as price). sure the ball valve is nice, but I have been brewing on my GF for a little over a year now and cant ever remember a time thinking I would need one. also It looks smaller than the grainfather, which would suck because I have already brewed some beers maxing out the grain capacity and wish I could do more. I could be wrong, they say the have the same liquid capacity but the grain baskets look drastically different. I really think what needs to happen is GF needs to see they have competition now, and price accordingly.$900 was ok when it was the only option, but times are a changin. Having said all this, if I was in the market now and had not been an early adopter, I would probably end up with a robobrew if the market a 120v version. That is until GF realizes they simply cannot charge the near $1000 now for their offering. I think WITH the connect controller, an $800 price tag would be reasonable, and continuing to offer the cheaper alternative. I think its a bad move on their part to ship all units with connect controllers and charge more. This would not have been a big deal if they were the only player in the game, but they are not. Sorry for the rant, seems like the forum took a drastic swing recently.

also one other note, I DO really like that "second" false bottom. This is an idea GF should "borrow" from them and produce as an add on. I would love to not have to worry about knocking my filter off.
 
If anyone was waiting on getting the new Connect module, AIH has a 30.00 off of 150 right now and the connect qualifies.
 
d-bone said:
I get all of the arguments he makes against the grainfather, but missed a couple of things. First, all of the parts on the outside make it easier to possibly upgrade parts, such as a new controller, in the future, where as you are more likely stuck with what you have having it all built in. also, I hate the idea of having the controls on the bottom. It is only really conducive if you have the unit set on a counter top. Otherwise you are bending over every time you need to change temps, turn on/off pump, switch elements.

The only thing I would say this unit has over the grainfather, aside from possibly better heating ( which I dont care about because I am using 120v), are handles (as well as price). sure the ball valve is nice, but I have been brewing on my GF for a little over a year now and cant ever remember a time thinking I would need one. also It looks smaller than the grainfather, which would suck because I have already brewed some beers maxing out the grain capacity and wish I could do more. I could be wrong, they say the have the same liquid capacity but the grain baskets look drastically different. I really think what needs to happen is GF needs to see they have competition now, and price accordingly.$900 was ok when it was the only option, but times are a changin. Having said all this, if I was in the market now and had not been an early adopter, I would probably end up with a robobrew if the market a 120v version. That is until GF realizes they simply cannot charge the near $1000 now for their offering. I think WITH the connect controller, an $800 price tag would be reasonable, and continuing to offer the cheaper alternative. I think its a bad move on their part to ship all units with connect controllers and charge more. This would not have been a big deal if they were the only player in the game, but they are not. Sorry for the rant, seems like the forum took a drastic swing recently.

also one other note, I DO really like that "second" false bottom. This is an idea GF should "borrow" from them and produce as an add on. I would love to not have to worry about knocking my filter off.
Click to expand...

Well written dbone! I totally agree with this, and would like the handles. They can fit it on the lid, plenty of room to make it work with CFC there, but I highly recommend not keeping the CFC on the lid during cooling, whirlpool fine. Robo should really use a moving table in their video to avoid the low controller issue, that's really inconvenient.

I think your rant is worthwhile, as it should help folks who are still deciding on their purchase. Options are indeed popping up.

elproducto said:
Patrick the owner of OBK in that video hates the Grainfather, so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

Good point. Besides he's no marketing wiz!
 
elproducto said:
Patrick the owner of OBK in that video hates the Grainfather, so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...


Nope...he hates iMake the manufacturer and its Canadian distributors...he didn't get GF exclusivity as he has in many other products eg - SSBrewtech. But your point is well taken - as is Kampenken's as he most certainly isn't a marketing wizard and not exactly Mr. Congeniality. I've dealt with him personally.
 
Just gotta my grainfather a few days ago and was worried about the boil but after my fist brew with the graincoat I have to say the grainfather boils better than I expected and the chiller is simply awesome! Anyone who needs a super rolling boil maybe disappointed but in my opinion the GF in more than adequate. I must say I'm a happy customer. Just look up the latest brulosophy experiment and you will realize you only need a little water turnover with the boil and dms wasn't a issue even with the lid on.
 
d-bone said:
I get all of the arguments he makes against the grainfather, but missed a couple of things. First, all of the parts on the outside make it easier to possibly upgrade parts, such as a new controller, in the future, where as you are more likely stuck with what you have having it all built in. also, I hate the idea of having the controls on the bottom. It is only really conducive if you have the unit set on a counter top. Otherwise you are bending over every time you need to change temps, turn on/off pump, switch elements.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

also It looks smaller than the grainfather,
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the Robo is larger than the GF. The Robo main kettle is 35L, which is 9.24 gallons. How big is the GF ?

also one other note, I DO really like that "second" false bottom. This is an idea GF should "borrow" from them and produce as an add on. I would love to not have to worry about knocking my filter off.
Click to expand...
I agree.

I've compiled a list of things that could be improved on the GF.

- no way to drain the pipe/pump/inlet without turning the unit upside down
- limited element power - longer heating times and less vigorous boil
- pump will stop if hop debris gets in it
- pump filter falls off easily
- no side handles
- no handles on the lid
- no optional stand or wheels... could be a bit higher for us tall people ?
- no way to see/measure wort volume when sparging
- requires a jacket and 2nd standpipe to use in the real world
- limited ability to whirlpool
- batch size and grain capacity are underwhelming (for me).
- no sparge arm

I love the concept of the Grainfather. I think they did a lot of things right. And I can see it works and works well. It is a trail blazing product. But it could be so much better with a few improvements.

And then there is the price...

Edit: I think it is pretty cool that GFs can be upgraded with the new controller. Well done !
 
First brew in today with it. Redid my Christmas ale (jmo88 holiday ale). Og post boil was a whopping 1.080. This improves upon my first batch of it with my traditional setup that came in at 1.074ish.

Overall time including my friend/cobrewer coming over maybe 5hrs tops. I had pitched yeast at about the 4hrs.

Ridiculous.

Note: don't crank down the mashing elbow thing super tight. I managed to flip the oring where it connects into the ball valve and it started leaking. Not a huge deal as I was just cleaning at this point.

Overall this went really well. The counter flow chiller was insane. Pitch temp in under 5mins. Could dial in the temp I wanted just by changing the flow rate on the chilling water.

Used a hop spider for this brew and had no pump issues but it was only 2oz of hops.
 
skraeling said:
First brew in today with it. Redid my Christmas ale (jmo88 holiday ale). Og post boil was a whopping 1.080. This improves upon my first batch of it with my traditional setup that came in at 1.072ish.

Overall time including my friend/cobrewer coming over maybe 5hrs tops. I had pitched yeast at about the 4hrs.

Ridiculous.

Note: don't crank down the mashing elbow thing super tight. I managed to flip the oring where it connects into the ball valve and it started leaking. Not a huge deal as I was just cleaning at this point.

Overall this went really well. The counter flow chiller was insane. Pitch temp in under 5mins. Could dial in the temp I wanted just by changing the flow rate on the chilling water.

Used a hop spider for this brew and had no pump issues but it was only 2oz of hops.
Click to expand...

Glad it went well! Just an FYI I did 7oz in a boil over the weekend with no bag/hop spider/etc. and I didn't have any issues with the filter clogging!
 
d-bone said:
the email i got said the deal ended wed at midnight.. so looks like we were too late. someone please prove me wrong.
Click to expand...
Hi. AHS might be over, but Homebrew Supply just started their under10/over15 sale (if you're on their mailing list,) and I just ordered mine. It's only fitting since I bought my GF there, and they are super guys with great customer service. Ed
:mug:
 
elreplica said:
Nope...he hates iMake the manufacturer and its Canadian distributors...he didn't get GF exclusivity as he has in many other products eg - SSBrewtech. But your point is well taken - as is Kampenken's as he most certainly isn't a marketing wizard and not exactly Mr. Congeniality. I've dealt with him personally.
Click to expand...

Oh geez, I just figured he didn't think things through well.

skraeling said:
First brew in today with it. Redid my Christmas ale (jmo88 holiday ale). Og post boil was a whopping 1.080. This improves upon my first batch of it with my traditional setup that came in at 1.074ish.

Overall time including my friend/cobrewer coming over maybe 5hrs tops. I had pitched yeast at about the 4hrs.

Ridiculous.

Note: don't crank down the mashing elbow thing super tight. I managed to flip the oring where it connects into the ball valve and it started leaking. Not a huge deal as I was just cleaning at this point.

Overall this went really well. The counter flow chiller was insane. Pitch temp in under 5mins. Could dial in the temp I wanted just by changing the flow rate on the chilling water.

Used a hop spider for this brew and had no pump issues but it was only 2oz of hops.
Click to expand...

Sounds great, welcome! The CFC is awesome with these low winter tap temps. In the summer you will want to pre-chill. On the last one I pre-chilled I tried freezing my I/C in a bucket of water (after blowing it out of course). I tested about 20 min before I needed it to see how cold and make sure it was running. It was. But, bad idea. When I went back to it, the water froze up inside the I/C! Doh! So, next time, I will trust it runs. I have two I/C coils (I built so they nested) so had a spare to pre-chill the old way- in an ice cooler bath. Looking forward to warmer temps (generally) and to try this out again.

treacheroustexan said:
Glad it went well! Just an FYI I did 7oz in a boil over the weekend with no bag/hop spider/etc. and I didn't have any issues with the filter clogging!
Click to expand...
Are you able to transfer wide open? I've stuck with my hop basket but would go direct, if I can transfer at a good rate. My last one was wide open which I really like.
 
d-bone said:
the email i got said the deal ended wed at midnight.. so looks like we were too late. someone please prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

I called them today and explained that I wasn't sure what to do last night, cancel and reorder or reorder today. They said that, because I called so close to the time of the deal, that they would refund me $30. I have always had great luck with Adventures in Homebrewing, they are great.
 
MrHoppy said:
I called them today and explained that I wasn't sure what to do last night, cancel and reorder or reorder today. They said that, because I called so close to the time of the deal, that they would refund me $30. I have always had great luck with Adventures in Homebrewing, they are great.
Click to expand...

I emailed them and they responded that the controller was not included with the sale. I copied your post and responded back to them. Kinda strange to get two different responses from the same company.
 
gotbeer74 said:
I emailed them and they responded that the controller was not included with the sale. I copied your post and responded back to them. Kinda strange to get two different responses from the same company.
Click to expand...

im just gonna choke it up as a loss.. I am only losing $20 anyway, I ordered when they were doing the free shipping deal.
 
I finally pulled the trigger last night!!!:ban: Bought the Grainfather, Graincoat, and mash paddle from Grainfather USA and the Grainfather sparge water heater from Homebrew Supply for $126 shipped! Can't wait!!!
 
johnsma22 said:
I finally pulled the trigger last night!!!:ban: Bought the Grainfather, Graincoat, and mash paddle from Grainfather USA and the Grainfather sparge water heater from Homebrew Supply for $126 shipped! Can't wait!!!
Click to expand...
Hi. Congratulations! I'm sure you'll love it as much as many of us here do. Here is another item you may want to consider buying. I got one and it's indispensable. You can reset the GF (if needed) while it's on the dolly, and it's a whole lot easier to push around than lift and carry. Your local Big Orange (Home Depot) store might have them on hand (mine only had Terra Cotta,) so I ordered the black one. Ed
:mug:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TRWJLA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dolly.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RedlegEd said:
Hi. Congratulations! I'm sure you'll love it as much as many of us here do. Here is another item you may want to consider buying. I got one and it's indispensable. You can reset the GF (if needed) while it's on the dolly, and it's a whole lot easier to push around than lift and carry. Your local Big Orange (Home Depot) store might have them on hand (mine only had Terra Cotta,) so I ordered the black one. Ed

:mug:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TRWJLA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...


This is why I love HBT! I was just going to do a search for the dolly I saw people using, back about a thousand posts ago, and there it is. My plan is to build a proper cart for it based on designs in this thread, but until then, this is just what the dr ordered. Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just wanted to say thanks to the people that posted about the Home Brew Supply sale. I ordered a Grainfather, hop spider, and an all grain kit last night for $70 less than the regular price for the Grainfather alone! I'm getting the Graincoat from amazon because it didn't qualify for the discount shipping on HBS...can't wait to try it out!
 
Quick garbage video I cut together of mine with brief shots of my first brew with it.



edit: need to edit out some stuff in the video.
 
Woke up this morning to perfectly heated strike water! Mashed in before pouring a cup of coffee! I love having the integrated recipe plugged in my iPad
 
Fixed the issue with the first video.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
quick question on beersmith and grainfather, on the mash tab below mash there is a selection for "adjust temp for equip"

Do we click that or leave it be? it bumps the strike water like 3f if its clicked..
 
shortyz said:
quick question on beersmith and grainfather, on the mash tab below mash there is a selection for "adjust temp for equip"

Do we click that or leave it be? it bumps the strike water like 3f if its clicked..
Click to expand...

I did +10* when I mashed in and it settled in spot on to around 152 very quickly. soon as I started doughing in I set the controller to my actual mash temp of 152.
 
Has anyone else had an issue with their Grainfather having the support ring slipping down into the boiler when attempting to lock the grain basket for sparging? I have done quite a few brews with mine but the last 3 or so I have had the ring slip out of the groove it fits into. Yesterday's was the worst. The grain basket made a huge splash of very hot wort over the floor and me. Ouch. It was only about a quart or so but still painful. Should I just try to replace the ring (which I'm not even sure is possible) or is there some other cause I'm missing?
 

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