Grainfather!!

[elreplica]

I think you might want to consider path of least resistance. I have tested this and posted my findings in past posts.

Using the return valve to slow the flow will help set the bed when you start and slowly you can adjust as the mash process continues.

Do some testing with a temp probe in the mash tun. It will shock you! You must start with your struck water at least 10 degrees higher to have a chance of start at 152.

So...you're saying that after adding the grain the temp drops 10F? If so, it makes sense as the grain enters the strike water at a much cooler temperature (room) and quickly absorbs water...that happens in cooking all the time. I'm new to all grain with my GF and have brewed extracts and cooked wort forever. I wonder what the impact is on my cooking with the GF with this kind of swing variable. I've only done four recipes thus far and only half (two) have been in target gravity range. Certainly my efficiency is off and I have to measure better next time as I have the gear and metrics to do so. I'm holding off for the GF Connect - more so because I'm a gadgets guy. Nonetheless, the beer I've cooked thus far has been pretty good and I'm sure will improve. Observations, metrics and notes are always made. It's a fascinating and rewarding hobby all the way around and I'm looking forward to upping my game and the lifelong learning that's part of it all. (Some side notes and thoughts included lol)

 

[actech]

That video claims to have directions from grainfather website. Ive never found them

 

[skraeling]

That video claims to have directions from grainfather website. Ive never found them

Grainfathers website blows.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_0c7caceab63b48ffa6317ba31ae2d1db.pdf

 

[PCL]

Also change the hysteresis on your controller too, its set at 2*. I just did mine yesterday while I was setting it all up / giving it the first clean.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIxjCD07vU

Making sure I have this, changing hysteresis to 1* will make for more accurate holding of desired mash temps. Which is one of the whole darn reasons we all got Grainfather in the first place. Cool! Thanks a lot man.

Also regarding the "*/rst " button in the left lower corner...grainfather people communicated to me after asked on FB that this is left from the cooling phase of the temp controller and that if you push it "you risk changing the configuration of the control box and we won't be able to get it back to normal [emoji4]" [direct quote]

 

[skraeling]

Making sure I have this, changing hysteresis to 1* will make for more accurate holding of desired mash temps. Which is one of the whole darn reasons we all got Grainfather in the first place. Cool! Thanks a lot man.

Also regarding the "*/rst " button in the left lower corner...grainfather people communicated to me after asked on FB that this is left from the cooling phase of the temp controller and that if you push it "you risk changing the configuration of the control box and we won't be able to get it back to normal [emoji4]" [direct quote]

Correct on the temp. It's adjusting where it kicks on the element. So you have it set for 152 it wouldn't kick on till it hits 150. Now it kicks on at 151. It's similar to the cooling differential setting on an inkbird 308.

Will it make a difference? Maybe it will, but the OCD scientist in me likes precision and accuracy.

And I did exactly as he does in the video it does in fact work. This on a brand new Grainfather.

Though I'll be getting the new connect controller asap. Having total granular control of the heating element tickles my fancy.

 

[shortyz]

Grainfathers website blows.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_0c7caceab63b48ffa6317ba31ae2d1db.pdf

thanks, that helped alot. So incase anyones wondering what this stupid controller does ill try to explain. When you change the UNI and says FAC its resetting to factory defaults and wants to re-enter the new values you want. I work with controllers like this everyday at work and this is by far the most china-fied POS ive ever used.

if F08 is not on HOT, this thing will not work.

 

[martiniw2olives]

I wonder what the impact is on my cooking with the GF with this kind of swing variable.

This is normal. Strike temp is always higher than mash. If your recirculating under temp each system will have a somewhat different strike temp. My system happens to be 4 degrees F.

 

[bigtex52]

Never tried measuring the grain bed temp in the middle. When I add my grains and stir like heck, if I started out 10 degrees high at mash in, it always looked like I was overshooting by 6 or 7 degrees so I started gradually reducing the mash-in temp so as not to overshoot. My beers ended up finishing drier and at a lower FG than they were supposed to and I am now wondering if it was because I was mashing at a lower temp than what I thought I was and what was indicated (which would reduce the non-fermentable sugars). I may try starting out 10 degrees high on mash-in and mashing 2 or 3 degrees higher than what I want, or stir the mash for longer than I have been trying to achieve a more uniform grain bed temperature before starting the timer.

 

[SirSpectre]

Made my second batch this weekend. 44% mash eff, and 56% brew house. Sparge lasted 4 minutes with 4 gallons. Top plate was dropped to the top of the grain bed. I can't figure out what is going this wrong to be so bad. Target OG of 1.057 after a pound of sugar as well. Measured OG of 1.038. Sad times ahead.


Also, I think my controller died. The power off position and boil position still run as mash mode. Any ideas?

 

[bigtex52]

Sounds like either the switch on the boiler is in mash position or a bad switch on the boiler. The switch on the controller just controls power on and whether or not the controller cycles the element on and off. Boil- Constantly on; Mash - temp controller cycles on and off; Off- power off to the element. The two position switch on the boiler simply is either in the boil position -1600w or mash-400w.

EDIT: Re read this, and it sounds like the controller switch may be bad since the element is still on in the off position.

 

[Kampenken]

So...you're saying that after adding the grain the temp drops 10F? If so, it makes sense as the grain enters the strike water at a much cooler temperature (room) and quickly absorbs water...that happens in cooking all the time. I'm new to all grain with my GF and have brewed extracts and cooked wort forever. I wonder what the impact is on my cooking with the GF with this kind of swing variable. I've only done four recipes thus far and only half (two) have been in target gravity range. Certainly my efficiency is off and I have to measure better next time as I have the gear and metrics to do so. I'm holding off for the GF Connect - more so because I'm a gadgets guy. Nonetheless, the beer I've cooked thus far has been pretty good and I'm sure will improve. Observations, metrics and notes are always made. It's a fascinating and rewarding hobby all the way around and I'm looking forward to upping my game and the lifelong learning that's part of it all. (Some side notes and thoughts included lol)

That is correct. You can use a calculator like on Brew365 for strike temp, I used to all the time back in the cooler MLT days, works like a charm then and now too. BUT, ignore the GF controller temp display and take the temp of the grain bed after you thoroughly dough in. Take multiple places and you will see you hit mash temp. I typically heat my strike +10F higher than mash temp.

Never tried measuring the grain bed temp in the middle. When I add my grains and stir like heck, if I started out 10 degrees high at mash in, it always looked like I was overshooting by 6 or 7 degrees so I started gradually reducing the mash-in temp so as not to overshoot. My beers ended up finishing drier and at a lower FG than they were supposed to and I am now wondering if it was because I was mashing at a lower temp than what I thought I was and what was indicated (which would reduce the non-fermentable sugars). I may try starting out 10 degrees high on mash-in and mashing 2 or 3 degrees higher than what I want, or stir the mash for longer than I have been trying to achieve a more uniform grain bed temperature before starting the timer.

Yup. Measure the grain bed as I noted above, and ignore the controller readout. As the recirc goes on the readout is corrected in short time. You can also measure the recirc mash water after a few minutes, though not sure this really offers any advantage -it initially will read higher than grain bed temp as the first part of the recirc contains mostly the water held below the grain basket, which is at the strike temp, and displayed on the controller.

 

[bigtex52]

Thanks, Kampenken! I am going to give that a try.

 

[actech]

Grainfathers website blows.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_0c7caceab63b48ffa6317ba31ae2d1db.pdf

Thanks, I will be doing this now. Was just a little leary when I couldnt find the paper he had on video

 

[Kampenken]

...Do some testing with a temp probe in the mash tun. It will shock you! You must start with your strike water at least 10 degrees higher to have a chance of start at 152.

I should've quoted this above Tang. You were the first here to really push this and post as you said. I was still in the early stages of hitting with a strike temp and you came along with mash bed temp measurements. Kudos to you!

Thanks, Kampenken! I am going to give that a try.

You're welcome, it helps, Tang can tell you too!

 

[Tang10]

I really can say with complete honesty the GF is a great unit to brew on! The fun part for myself has been the testing and striving to improve each batch of beer. Like many people have said in this post that their beer tastes great. The next step for them is, can it taste even better with small changes to an already simple system to brew on.

Jamie

I should've quoted this above Tang. You were the first here to really push this and post as you said. I was still in the early stages of hitting with a strike temp and you came along with mash bed temp measurements. Kudos to you!



You're welcome, it helps, Tang can tell you too!

 

[sjporr]

Did my 1st brew day on a borrowed Grainfather this Sunday. I was very impressed and pleased with its operation. My target OG was 1.056 @ 6 gallons, my actual was 1.050 @ 6.25 gallons. So not knowing how this operated and it being my first time I am very pleased.
The sparge went a little fast for my liking. But I have some ideas on how to improve that.
The boil was not as vigorous s I would like. However I see there are options in this thread to improve on that as well.
I do wish that it had handles though. Would make it much easier to carry and dump out trub.
I plan to do several more Brews on it to better understand the system and to be able to do classes at my store.
Cheers

 

[Tang10]

I know I posted this in the past, but thought some might be interested in a fine screen bottom that I use. I have brewed at least 12 batches with this system and it works perfect. My main goal was to have no grain bits in my wort before the boil started.

Not a must, but an easy upgrade

Jamie

 

[d-bone]

I know I posted this in the past, but thought some might be interested in a fine screen bottom that I use. I have brewed at least 12 batches with this system and it works perfect. My main goal was to have no grain bits in my wort before the boil started.

Not a must, but an easy upgrade

Jamie

forgive me for not digging through the forum for the answer, but what size mesh did you use for this again?

 

[d-bone]

I know I posted this in the past, but thought some might be interested in a fine screen bottom that I use. I have brewed at least 12 batches with this system and it works perfect. My main goal was to have no grain bits in my wort before the boil started.

Not a must, but an easy upgrade

Jamie

forgive me for not digging through the forum for the answer, but what size mesh did you use for this again?

 

[Tang10]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Stainless-St...reen-12-x12-/112257455982?hash=item1a2310d76e

 

[TheMadKing]

Hey guys, I have a friend with a Grainfather and I'm trying to help him troubleshoot a bad batch.

His basic problem:

8lbs of 2-row
2lbs of Vienna
1 cup of rice hulls (his first time trying rice hulls, because he kept getting stuck sparges)

Mash temp was 154F

Mash efficiency was around 61% OG was 1.038, after 14 days in primary with US-05 his SG is 1.020. So clearly something went wrong with his mash, his yeast, or both.

He has previously brewed this without the rice hulls and had about 80% efficiency, but with a stuck sparge. The only difference was the rice hulls. He noticed that his sparge took about 5 minutes instead of 45 like last time.

I've read a chunk of this thread, so I understand now that the rice hulls made his sparge go so quickly that is was ineffective and greatly reduced his efficiency. What I haven't seen mention of: conversion issues?

I had him check his thermometer and temp probe in ice water and boiling and they were both ok, so it's not that. He also didn't add anything to his water, and our water here in Georgia is virtually RO water straight out of the tap, so I don't think it was a pH issue.

I don't understand what could have caused extremely poor conversion like that.

I'm also having him pitch another packet of yeast, just in case we have two separate issues going on.

 

[RedlegEd]

Hey guys, I have a friend with a Grainfather and I'm trying to help him troubleshoot a bad batch.

His basic problem:

8lbs of 2-row
2lbs of Vienna
1 cup of rice hulls (his first time trying rice hulls, because he kept getting stuck sparges)

Mash temp was 154F

Mash efficiency was around 61% OG was 1.038, after 14 days in primary with US-05 his SG is 1.020. So clearly something went wrong with his mash, his yeast, or both.

He has previously brewed this without the rice hulls and had about 80% efficiency, but with a stuck sparge. The only difference was the rice hulls. He noticed that his sparge took about 5 minutes instead of 45 like last time.

I've read a chunk of this thread, so I understand now that the rice hulls made his sparge go so quickly that is was ineffective and greatly reduced his efficiency. What I haven't seen mention of: conversion issues?

I had him check his thermometer and temp probe in ice water and boiling and they were both ok, so it's not that. He also didn't add anything to his water, and our water here in Georgia is virtually RO water straight out of the tap, so I don't think it was a pH issue.

I don't understand what could have caused extremely poor conversion like that.

I'm also having him pitch another packet of yeast, just in case we have two separate issues going on.

Hi. You didn't mention the grind. Did he mill his own grain, or have the LBHS mill it? I condition my grain and mill fairly course (0.042-45) and usually get conversion efficiencies in the 90s. The only time I used rice hulls was in an oatmeal stout. Also, did he push the plate down on the grainbed before sparging? Ed


ETA: I'm assuming (yes, I know...) that the grain was still fairly fresh and usable?

 

[lewandowski46]

Hey guys, I have a friend with a Grainfather and I'm trying to help him troubleshoot a bad batch.

Was the wort cooled when OG was measured? 45 minutes is not a stuck sparge, it might be a tad slow but it's not really stuck. I think the general thought is it should take upwards of an hour for a normal sparge. Have him bump the mash time to 75 or 90 minutes to ensure complete conversion, or consider stirring the mash half way through to ensure everything is well mixed up.

Also you mention tap like RO water. That's not necessarily the best setup as RO is devoid of minerals essential to the growth of yeast and the chlorine in the water could influence as well. A simple RV filter to remove chlorine and a dash of brewing salts and yeast nutrient could go a long way.

 

[TheMadKing]

Was the wort cooled when OG was measured? 45 minutes is not a stuck sparge, it might be a tad slow but it's not really stuck. I think the general thought is it should take upwards of an hour for a normal sparge. Have him bump the mash time to 75 or 90 minutes to ensure complete conversion, or consider stirring the mash half way through to ensure everything is well mixed up.

Also you mention tap like RO water. That's not necessarily the best setup as RO is devoid of minerals essential to the growth of yeast and the chlorine in the water could influence as well. A simple RV filter to remove chlorine and a dash of brewing salts and yeast nutrient could go a long way.

Thanks for the reply!

-Yes wort was cooled to room temp, and the OG measurement was verified with hydrometer and refractometer
-He kept calling it was a stuck sparge because he would pour water over the grain bed gently, it would rise above the grain, and he'd let it sit for 30 minutes or so with no change, then stir to get the water to drain. He effectively did a batch sparge by doing that.
-I did suggest a 90 minute mash
-I did not suggest stirring half-way through, as I'm not familiar with the grainfather, so I'll pass that along
-You can make good beer from 100% RO water. The grain has plenty of calcium and magnesium for yeast health. Martin Brungard wrote an article discussing the misunderstanding that minerals are required for yeast health. Our chloride content is very low, ~18ppm, so I doubt that would cause major yeast issues, especially considering he had made this exact same beer with the same water before with no issues.

I really think the problem has to be something in the mash (pre-sparge conversion issues) or a bad packet of yeast.

 

[TheMadKing]

Hi. You didn't mention the grind. Did he mill his own grain, or have the LBHS mill it? I condition my grain and mill fairly course (0.042-45) and usually get conversion efficiencies in the 90s. The only time I used rice hulls was in an oatmeal stout. Also, did he push the plate down on the grainbed before sparging? Ed


ETA: I'm assuming (yes, I know...) that the grain was still fairly fresh and usable?

Thanks for the reply!

He had his grain milled at the LHBS but it was the same mill and same setting that was used for the 80% efficiency batch, but I don't know what the gap size is exactly. The LHBS keeps a good stock and I've never gotten bad grain from them, especially base malts.

Yes he did push the plate down before sparging, and has done so on every batch.

 

[Kampenken]

Hey guys, I have a friend with a Grainfather and I'm trying to help him troubleshoot a bad batch.

His basic problem:

8lbs of 2-row
2lbs of Vienna
1 cup of rice hulls (his first time trying rice hulls, because he kept getting stuck sparges)

Mash temp was 154F

Mash efficiency was around 61% OG was 1.038, after 14 days in primary with US-05 his SG is 1.020. So clearly something went wrong with his mash, his yeast, or both.

He has previously brewed this without the rice hulls and had about 80% efficiency, but with a stuck sparge. The only difference was the rice hulls. He noticed that his sparge took about 5 minutes instead of 45 like last time.

I've read a chunk of this thread, so I understand now that the rice hulls made his sparge go so quickly that is was ineffective and greatly reduced his efficiency. What I haven't seen mention of: conversion issues?

I had him check his thermometer and temp probe in ice water and boiling and they were both ok, so it's not that. He also didn't add anything to his water, and our water here in Georgia is virtually RO water straight out of the tap, so I don't think it was a pH issue.

I don't understand what could have caused extremely poor conversion like that.

I'm also having him pitch another packet of yeast, just in case we have two separate issues going on.

Odd. Why would he got a stuck sparge on this previously without rice hulls? That presumes a fine crush, as there should be no reason to add rice hulls with that grain bill. Then to get the fast sparge with one cup (not pound, right??!) is a bit odd too.

There are two unknown variables- the water (even "virtually RO water" can change during seasons depending upon source) and mill setting. I'd either reach out to the water dept for a report or get water tested. And ask if a water source recently changed (ground v surface).

As for mill, it seems the mill setting changed. Tell him to buy a mill (cereal killer is ~$100) and buy grain in bulk. In no time he will have paid for that mill and gain more control.

 

[DeadAirJeff]

As for mill, it seems the mill setting changed. Tell him to buy a mill (cereal killer is ~$100) and buy grain in bulk. In no time he will have paid for that mill and gain more control.

+1

I bought a Cereal Killer mill last year, and it's already paid for itself.

Not to mention that now I always know what to expect from my crush, and now I can keep my malts on hand and not always have to order or run to the LABS last minute... invest in a couple of airtight dog food bins too, and you'll be very happy 😊

 

[DeadAirJeff]

BTW, I just ordered my Grainfather.

Got a sizable rebate check on my property taxes from last year that I wasn't expecting, so I finally bit the bullet.

I'm a single father of a 5-year-old boy with too much energy. It's been difficult to brew lately because I have him 7 days a week now, so hopefully, this will allow me some extra downtime during my brew day to hang out with him (or clean up after him) ☺

 

[Teesquar]

Hey guys, I have a friend with a Grainfather and I'm trying to help him troubleshoot a bad batch.

.

Please verify 1 cup or 1 pound of rice hulls. TBH, not sure 1 cup of hulls in a 10# batch would cause a quick flow-through. Now 1# ... yeah I could see that really loosening things up and have a quick sparge. Quick sparge means lots of sugars were not rinsed out and left behind in the grains.

As far as sparges go, I say it's not stuck if you have not achieved a boil. At start of the sparge I flip the switches to get the boil going. I then start my sparge process. There has been only one time that it was close and I just finished as the temp was hitting 210F and I had to quickly knock down the break.

Look at it this way, all you would be doing with a quicker sparge is staring at a GF waiting for the boil to happen. Why not have a slower sparge and collect as much of that fermentable goodness as you can?

 

[TheMadKing]

Odd. Why would he got a stuck sparge on this previously without rice hulls? That presumes a fine crush, as there should be no reason to add rice hulls with that grain bill. Then to get the fast sparge with one cup (not pound, right??!) is a bit odd too.

There are two unknown variables- the water (even "virtually RO water" can change during seasons depending upon source) and mill setting. I'd either reach out to the water dept for a report or get water tested. And ask if a water source recently changed (ground v surface).

As for mill, it seems the mill setting changed. Tell him to buy a mill (cereal killer is ~$100) and buy grain in bulk. In no time he will have paid for that mill and gain more control.

The water comes from Lake Lanier year around, I've had it tested several times and it's consistent, so I really doubt it's a water issue.

I agree that it's odd that he regularly gets stuck sparges (almost every batch, is what he told me, so I recommended trying rice hulls). I had assumed that it was a flaw in the Grainfather basket or something, but you're implying this is not a common occurrence for folks?

I also just sold him my corona mill, so he's going to try that on the next batch.