LeeH
Well-Known Member
Can somebody else try contacting Millar? I’m trying to get this mill here before Xmas....
Thanks.
Thanks.
Grain Mills..... Best one, Why?
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LeeH
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Looks like I'll be buying another one...
I understand what a pita it was to end up where you are now, but as a BC owner with ~3000 pounds through it I'm always looking over my shoulder wondering if the next batch will be the one that the BC starts with the sticking idler roller under 15 pounds of grain in the bin (I mill with the "Jaws" theme music in my head these days)
I always have to question those who report putting such numbers as 3000lbs of grain though the Barley Crusher without having it yet to wear down. But just reading your post I got to wondering... how many wheat based beers do you do? And when you do them do you tighten the gap being wheat kernels are smaller? I ask cause I realized when I had a BC I did a ton of wheat beers and it was obvious by the drill working that much harder that wheat being so hard probably was much tougher on the rollers. With the Monster Mill it chewed through the grains easier also lightening the work on the drill, even with the same tight gap I used on the BC.
The BC was a good mill for the beginner looking to just get started, but the false advertisement of lifetime guarantee is a real turn off and for not much more one can get a much much better mill these days. I also can't believe people are still buying them.
Rev.
So I've had the mill for going on eight years and brew 150~200 gallons each year. At most I've run about 2-3% wheat through compared to all else. Mostly because the one wheat beer I keep on tap for those who aren't into hoppy and uber-hoppy brews is not a big hitter compared to the other five (neipas, a kolsch and my absolutely-gotta-have imperial chocolate stout).
The three things I think have contributed to the mill's longevity are ensuring the frame is square and never shifts its geometry under load, running it at a modest pace (180 rpm), and blowing it out with a compressor after every use. And I suppose I could count the minimal wheat exposure as a fourth factor.
fwiw, I have had it slip occasionally over all those brews, but nothing pathological. Yet. In fact I thought it might finally be on its way to Mill Heaven lately with more frequent slippage but then last weekend it blew right through 25 pounds of Weyermann pilsner without a hiccup...
Cheers!
The three things I think have contributed to the mill's longevity are ensuring the frame is square and never shifts its geometry under load, running it at a modest pace (180 rpm), and blowing it out with a compressor after every use. And I suppose I could count the minimal wheat exposure as a fourth factor.
fwiw, I have had it slip occasionally over all those brews, but nothing pathological. Yet. In fact I thought it might finally be on its way to Mill Heaven lately with more frequent slippage but then last weekend it blew right through 25 pounds of Weyermann pilsner without a hiccup...
Cheers!
gunhaus
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Some great info in here! But I am feeling a tad nostalgic on the holiday and i wondered if anyone remembers when we could actually brew great tasting beer with a pair of modified buckets, a re-purposed meat grinder, a borrowed canning pot, a carboy, and Charlie P's book? Oh well . . . Ya know my first all grain batch cost me about 45 bucks for gear and ingredients (Not counting that borrowed canning pot - thanks mom!) Now it appears it is difficult to brew a barely tolerable barley pop without a 1k dollar grain beater- upper! I must be getting old!~~` Anyway - Might have to get me one of them new ones from SS - if only for the cool factor!
You had a carboy? You were privileged, I had the book, no carboys...I was using recycled buckets w/ make shift airlocks.
Less was more years ago lol.
Happy Thanksgiving!
papz
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You had recycled buckets?
You were privileged, I had the book as a fermenter!!
=================================
"Grain Mills..... Best one, Why?"
Best grain mill is the one at the LHBS.
"why" because I am not the person who has to clean it.
(It is pretty nice though. Would run around 2 grand if you or i were to buy one like it.)
You were privileged, I had the book as a fermenter!!
=================================
"Grain Mills..... Best one, Why?"
Best grain mill is the one at the LHBS.
"why" because I am not the person who has to clean it.
(It is pretty nice though. Would run around 2 grand if you or i were to buy one like it.)
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
I went through the same thing recently and bought the Monster Mill MM2 Pro with hardened rollers and keyed shaft with an AAW motor. See link. You will not be disappointed. I can't image a better mill setup. Not cheap, but worth it. The 3 roller mill saw no real benefits that I could tell.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...mm2-pro-aaw-motor-project-is-complete.636343/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...mm2-pro-aaw-motor-project-is-complete.636343/
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
I'm happy with my Barley Crusher. It works well for my BIAB. I use a drill and since I do 5gal or less batches I can always double crush if need be.
Blow it out with my compressor when it's done and clean as a whistle. Works for me.
Blow it out with my compressor when it's done and clean as a whistle. Works for me.
Yes the Millmaster design looks different than what Monster has. The contoured flutes are an interesting concept. I like the stainless steel for ease of maintenance. It says hardened, and I'd be curious to know how it's hardness stacks up against Monster Mills' heat treated 1144.
I can only speak to the Monster Mills product, but I do think their slotted rollers could work well with two modifications:
1) If the rollers were slightly larger in diameter, or the bushings slightly closer together, the mill gap would be fully adjustable.
2) Make the slots shallower. I checked my notes, and the grooves on the Monster slotted mill were 0.030" deep, thus at the minimum setting of 0.022", there are three different mill gaps during grain crush: 0.022", 0.052", and 0.082". I'd go as low as I could while still allowing the trailing edge to grab the grain. Say 0.005" deep off the top of my head. This would produce a maximum variance during grain crush of 0.010".
The flutes on the Millmaster are significantly narrower, and in combination with the contoured design, I expect that behaves differently. Also worth mentioning is that the Millmaster uses 1.5" rollers while some of the Monster Mills use 2" rollers. When I was shopping for a mill, 2" rollers was one of my criteria. My memory is fuzzy, but it had something to do with angle of incidence. Of course, a 1.5" roller may work best with Millmaster's design.
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Purchased and used a Schmidling Malt Mill since the 1990s. Happy with it until about a year ago. Was getting mid 80s brewery efficiency. Within the past year obtained fluctuating brew house efficiencies. Believe the Schmidling mill rollers are loose/worn. Don't see any way to tighten them (not writing about modifying the roller gap).
Recently purchased a King Keg MM3. Used for the first time during my November 24, 2018 cream ale brew. Achieved (according to BeerSmith) 91.8% mash efficiency and 87.6% brew house efficiency.
Happy so far with the MM3.
Recently purchased a King Keg MM3. Used for the first time during my November 24, 2018 cream ale brew. Achieved (according to BeerSmith) 91.8% mash efficiency and 87.6% brew house efficiency.
Happy so far with the MM3.
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This is definitely valid and cause for concern. It's the reason why pre-milled grain has a shelf life.
Thanks, it is definitely ghetto but also compact.
Sweet!
OK, Santa I've been good this year, maybe one of these malt mills under the Christmas tree for me?
Carboy? What's a "carboy". Oh, yeah, the 5 gallon water jug. Maybe I can just take an empty one from work and no one will notice...
I have the millmaster. I'm in the US and with even with shipping from AU the price was comparable to the monster mill I was also considering. I've only put about 300# of grain through it but so far I'm completely happy with it. It's a huge upgrade from the worn out barley crusher I was using the last few years. I'm getting much more consistent (and slightly higher) efficiency. It's a fabulous mill, very well built.
Full disclosure, my 8+ yo BC hit the proverbial wall and nothing I could do short of reconfiguring it for reverse rotation would bring it back - and as my gear motor drops 25% of its torque when run in reverse I opted to retire the BC in favor of a $99/free shipping ball bearing, hardened steel rollers Cereal Killer. Used it this weekend, worked a treat.
fwiw, there are twice as many screws holding the side plates to the end plates freeing the adjusters to just be adjusters...
Cheers!
I've had my barley crusher since the early 2000's. I can't say exactly how much grain it has milled but I go through a couple of sacks of base malt every year. It's outlasted 2 electric drills and I just recently motorized it. I take it apart and clean it occasionally but it is still kicking.
To answer the OP's question... any mill you get will be the best. Why? Because you don't have one yet and just having a mill of any sort puts you in control of your malt.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
The OP asked what the best mill was and why, I dont think he was looking for a philosophical answer but hey now we have that base covered and your right I guess with that answer. But that question wasnt whether the mill is worth it or not and why, It was a question about which hardware performs better than others and why.
As far as home brewing mills there are far far more reports and threads here of failures with the BC than any other mill due to knurling wear. a simple google search of "grain mill problem" will show that. Therefore in many peoples (including many former owners) it is not the best choice or even a good one.
And for that reason its worth while to warn others who specifically ask the question, about these mills.
The goal was not to offend anyone as an owner, you had had good luck with yours just as day tripper had reported earlier in this thread with his until recently when the soft rollers finally showed their engineering inferiority. You simply dont see reports of this happening often at all with any other home brewing mill sold.
The data and reports from others here show There are other brands of homebrewing mills that are made better like those with hardened rollers and real sealed ball bearing like the cereal killer which are in fact better made mills, often for less money.
For comparison, Both my mills are motorized. My cereal killer at home is 6 years old and still going strong. I also use a 3 roller kegco/keg king mill at the brewpub, we brew every week milling anywhere from 3 to 5 sacks worth a week since December. The mill has needed zero attention and the kurling is still sharp. for an average homebrewer thats over 10 years of use in the last 6 months.. For $150 shipped its a great mill for a great price which will make it one of the the "best" mills for those people who have those priorities. Others may find an american made mill like the monster mill of more value to them. Everyone is going to see the "best mill" differently but the majority of people who owned barley crushers will agree on what isnt the best mil for the money out there.
Dude gave a recommendation for the barley crusher based on his own use. Seems on target to me.
My Schmidling MaltMill is on its last legs. It did about 15 yrs of service, but has now fallen apart in every way. I wouldn't recommend it. I'm in the market for a new one.
I can't answer the original question, but I've seen about a thousand mill reviews in my time on this forum and it looks like the Monster Mill (2 or 3 roller) is the safest bet. It's not the cheapest. I don't know if the 3rd roller is necessary, and can't assess the value of the hardened steel option for a home user.
I've seen lots of problems with the barley crusher.
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augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, Sorry Kevin58 for my comment coming out like it was criticism on your post. It's more frustration at this point after reading what's likely been over a hundred complaints about the BC mill on this forum and then seeing it being praised as possibly the best home brewing mill followed by the any mill is the best mill comment which kind of discredits the whole thread discussion as I read it.
I should have just contributed with my first hand experience as you have and avoided mentioning what I been told by others here over and over.
My personal experience with the barley crusher as it is one of the 5 different grain mills between my brewing partner and I that we have.
We have a Corona mill which works but makes a lot of four and is very inconsistent in crush with a big mess to clean up compared to other mills I've used. It was only $30 shipped and works which makes it the best choice for some I'm sure.
The barley crusher... My experience with this mill was limited to one use in my brew partners garage where we wasted a lot of time trying to get the grain milled for a 10 gallon batch. The rollers kept stopping requiring a lot of playing around to get through milling. It appears the knurling had worn down or possibly a combination of that and the bushings being compacted with grain dust causing them to turn harder. My brew buddy had already taken it apart to try to clean it prior to that though.
Shortly after that He bought a 3 roller monster mill which we have only used a handful of times since 95% of the time we brewed on my electric setup and used my motorized cereal killer.
The CK still works great and sees limited use in the last year.
For the small brewpub we opened, we decided to go with the 3 roller version of the mill from the factory that makes the CK.. This mill is sold with all sorts of names like the malt munchier and kegco 3 roller... this mill has been fantastic and we chose to keep the MM3 as a spare and not the main mill due to the mm3 having bronze bushings instead of real bearings. Otherwise they appear identical to each other. I even use the mm3 hopper extension on the kegco as it bolts right up.
In all honesty the CK is the best bang for the buck in my mind. It has harder cold rolled rollers and real bearings which the mm mills do not have unless you pay a considerable amount more for to get the upgraded pro version of thier mill. Bearings are a huge benefit if you plan to drive it with a motor and pulley setup. Time will tell if the 3 roller mills last longer but as far as crush quality they look comparable to me and the ck is way easier to adjust the crush/gap on. And for $99 shipped it's hard to beat the cost as well.
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LittleRiver
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I've had my 3 roller Kegco for about 3yrs. It's a good product, well made. It has never given me any problems. It works now just like it did when it was brand new. I'm glad I bought it when I did, because the price on them has gone up considerably. They're now ~$200 (does not include shipping).
The Cereal Killer is ~$100 (which includes shipping). It also has a great reputation for being reliable.
Even though I own the Kegco, I recommend the Cereal Killer as the best value on the market.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Fyi they are both made by the same Chinese manufacturer for those who dont know this. The kegco 2 roller is the CK without the base. The kegco /keg king mills are also sold under at least 3 different brand names including the malt munchie by William's brewing and the others I cant call the proper name brand of off the top of my head but the pricing is all over the place..
I replaced by Barley Crusher after about 4000 pounds of grain with a MM3. About halfway through the BC's life I had to nudge the roller with a long handled plastic spoon every 30 seconds or so to keep it spinning. Was expecting based on reports here that the MM3 would solve all my problems but...
I am having some difficulties with the MM3 losing gap while crushing. It's a PITA when this happens as the hopper has to be removed to be able to measure the gap. I tighten those wing screws pretty tight (using pliers until I am scared I might break the screw) but sometimes it will still move during the crush. Anyone else having similar problems?
Another question is the gap adjustment. I saw some threads on here talking about marking the body of the MM3 with various gap adjustments but I find a very small turn of adjustment knob results in a pretty large change in the gap. I was hoping I could mark 0.45, 0.40, 0.35, 0.30 but these all only take about 10 minutes on a clock face.... Not really practical for marking with a sharpie. TBH I am wishing I'd bought the MM2 with large hardened rollers and a gap you can see and measure at the bottom of the hopper.
I am having some difficulties with the MM3 losing gap while crushing. It's a PITA when this happens as the hopper has to be removed to be able to measure the gap. I tighten those wing screws pretty tight (using pliers until I am scared I might break the screw) but sometimes it will still move during the crush. Anyone else having similar problems?
Another question is the gap adjustment. I saw some threads on here talking about marking the body of the MM3 with various gap adjustments but I find a very small turn of adjustment knob results in a pretty large change in the gap. I was hoping I could mark 0.45, 0.40, 0.35, 0.30 but these all only take about 10 minutes on a clock face.... Not really practical for marking with a sharpie. TBH I am wishing I'd bought the MM2 with large hardened rollers and a gap you can see and measure at the bottom of the hopper.
In the end we are both comparing anecdotal stories. You shared yours. I shared mine. I followed up by advising the OP not to listen to me or you but just get a mill.
If you're losing gap it's cause you need to readjust the rollers so that the adjustable roller is coming up from underneath the drive roller when you set the gap, otherwise it will move when milling. It's very confusing but I finally got it sorted out when I got my first MM mill years back. Here's the response from Fred that explains it. If it's still not making sense I've linked the thread which will help to understand it more - most info is on page 2. Btw, don't overtighten the adjustment screws or you could strip the base.
"All the hex head bolts allow you to do is overtighten the bolt, and ruin the threads in the frame. If you make sure that the adjustable roller is coming up from UNDERNEATH the drive roller on both ends when you set the gap, then the thumbscrews should hold. There is TWO positions of the adjustable roller where you can set the same gap, one with the roller coming down from above, and one with it coming up from underneath. If you notice the thumbscrews are OFFSET from the centerline of the knob. they are below the knob centerline. If you imagine the grain pressing against the knob trying to turn it while you are milling, you can see that the thumbscrew will either get pressed against or pulled away from the knob when milling depending on how you set the gap. We have found that the gap should hold with the thumbscrews are finger tight if the gap is set such that the roller is coming up from underneath the drive roller when setting the gap. To state it another way, the gap should get smaller when you turn the knob on the drive shaft side of the mill clockwise."
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/adjusting-monster-mill-2-0.375038/
Rev.
Thanks Rev...I’ve been suspecting it is something like this but hadn’t seen it mentioned before. Like that other thread states would be nice if MM would describe this on his web site maybe with some better pictures or videos. I think I got it set right now and will see if it holds position next brew finger tightened only.
For what it's worth, I do a little more than finger tighten but not much. I take pliers, grip the flat head, and give it a little more of a tighten, like 1/16th of a turn. Been fine doing this, just don't gorilla arm it.
Rev.
For what it's worth, I do a little more than finger tighten but not much. I take pliers, grip the flat head, and give it a little more of a tighten, like 1/16th of a turn. Been fine doing this, just don't gorilla arm it.
Rev.
Reporting back...happy as can be with my mm3 thanks to Rev. I intentionally only finger tightened the lock screws, as tight as I could get without tools, and crushed at 40. No slippage at all. Next brew I’ll do same and crush at 30. Had awesome recirc at 40 with a grist that was 20% flaked corn. Will see how that works out at finer crush now that I believe my crush setting is reliable.
Good to know about slight tightening turn as I'm researching motorizing my MM3. Thanks!
Following up on my previous comments, I decided to set my old BC for reverse rotation thus exposing the much less worn sides of the knurling on both rollers. Slapped my 18v drill on it and proceeded to plow through 5 pounds of hard wheat - with an .025" gap. The BC absolutely killed that wheat like it was brand new!
Bottom line is it's all about the metallurgy.
So the plan is to reserve the BC for wheat and allow the CK mill to avoid it.
Cheers!
Bottom line is it's all about the metallurgy.
So the plan is to reserve the BC for wheat and allow the CK mill to avoid it.
Cheers!
Seems to me that the people with the best recommendations for the BC have been using it for a LONG time, i.e., they bought it many years ago. More recent ones seem to be less robust, which implies to me that they've changed something in either the metal or the machining. Or both.
That would account for what seems to be inconsistencies in the recommendations for the BC.
That would account for what seems to be inconsistencies in the recommendations for the BC.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
its possible, but if you do a search here for grain mill issues or problems, you will find many many threads going back years with people like yooper even commenting she had nothing but issues and had to sent the mill back multiple times for new rollers. most of the components for the BC are made in china but ironically the rollers which have the issue of being made of a soft metal.
Not to mention that the proprieter of Barley Crusher has seemingly dropped off the planet, gone into Witness Protection, or something like that. Seriously, there's a thread around here dedicated to the frustration numerous people have had in their attempts to contact that guy for customer service. That in itself speaks volumes. I'd avoid BC like the plague.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
yes I remember one of those threads were people stated they sent their mills in for the lifetime warranty and never got them back. I actually did a search here and on google once for grain mill issues and problems and like 90% of everthing I could find was concerning the BC that means either they sold way more mills than any other homebrewing grain mill maker or they truly have a serious flaw as I see it.. I rememeber posting the links to warn a couple members here that posted they were going to buy them, they basically told me I had too much time on my hands and made fun of me but about 6 months later I caught one of those same members giving the same advice not to buy the BC to people in a kegco mill thread so..
heres some old threads showing the issue goes back years.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/barley-crusher-customer-service.297352/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/barley-crusher-problem.124846/#post-1392595
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Soulshine2
Well-Known Member
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-2-...rs+grain+mill&qid=1560774408&s=gateway&sr=8-7
this is pretty much what I have. I brew on average once a month. I run it with a cordless drill driver on the torque setting and have had no problems with it.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
that is the keg king branded cereal killer... same mill as a cereal killer and kegco. just sold without the base.
There were a few instances in the past where I posted comments re some vendor and had posters respond defensively, as if anyone in the brew supplies business were something sacred. I even had one response to the effect of, "those guys are supporting this site...don't bad-mouth them." I don't see that around here much anymore as I think people are more aware of getting value for their money, and brewing isn't a cheap hobby.
I will also post positive reviews when a vendor impresses me, and have done so many times. I try to be fair and will give credit where credit is due.
Bottom line...I'm a consumerist. No one else is looking after my interests, so I do it myself. If I don't get my money's worth, or I get attitude and frustration from someone I just dropped a bunch of $$ on, I sound off. I'm also a bit of a Darwinist. It's a crowded field, and I don't mind if some of the less customer-focused enterprises shake out.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Off topic**
On many forums, speaking ill or even stating some fact about a supporting vendor is not allowed. I was temporarily suspended from a popular corvette forum once for pointing out that a particular vendor was selling the exact same chinese sidepipes that were available on ebay for $750 shipped which I owned, only they were marking them up to almost $1800... I knew a guy them bought them and we discovered they were one and the same. didnt matter.. I was told the forum existed for the revenue generated by the sponsors and not the members best interests in a very matter of fact fashion.
At least here we all get the choice of being a supporting member to earn the same respect as the vendors and keep things honest.
I also had my posts deleted about my 3bbl system being from the same manufacturer as stout gets them from on probrewer which I felt was shady. Especially since sungood machinery where I got them is also a probrewer forum sponsor. I never entioned anything about cost as it was purely a hardware oriented comment pertaining to the false bottom
On this forum, we prefer vendor reviews be made in the Company Reviews area (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/forums/company-reviews.173/). In there, we do moderate to eliminate bashing by people that don't have first-person reviews. We never remove those actual first-person reviews though.
Regarding the sponsoring vendors, we (moderating staff) don't favor them in any way with respect to moderation.
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