Grain Mills..... Best one, Why?

[JohnSand]

Wow the Millars Mill looks solid! I think that is my next one. For those that have it, does it have bearings on the non drive roller? I cant tell from the website. Also the only nitpick I have is the graduation marks are too coarse. 0.01 to 0.25 to 0.45 over a quarter turn. I initially thought that was 0.025 and 0.045 but when I watched the video realized there was no zero when he said it opens up to almost a 1/2". I am sure this is great for some obscure applications but might be a pain to dial in the setpoint without a feeler gage. The quarter turn makes sense to not bind the roller but you will learn that once and not do it again. I would rather have the up to 0.45 adjustment over a full rev to have more fine tuning on the dials, or limited to 0.060 over a quarter turn.

I think the bearings are the same on both, but it's out in the shed right now.
I just adjust mine by eye. It's very convenient to store in the bucket, a minor hassle to break down and put back together each time. I've become good at it. When I fill the hopper a couple of tablespoons of grain falls around the rollers. Those are my only criticisms.

 

[passedpawn]

I've got one of the 2-roller Monster Mills. I tried the slotted version, but actually ended up having better luck with the hardened knurled rollers. The slotted version wouldn't let me achieve a fine enough crush for good efficiency. I built a table for it. Slide a bucket underneath and flip a switch. Nice and easy.

View attachment 596854 View attachment 596855

Museum quality! I like it.

But where's the hopper?

 

[SEndorf]

Forget the roller mill. I'm more impressed with the woodworking !

 

[LittleRiver]

...I built a table for it...

I love the functional simplicity of the table design, nice work! Nice photos too!

 

[Epos7]

Museum quality! I like it.

But where's the hopper?

I just drop a few grains through at a time

Normally I have the Monster hopper on there too

 

[Epos7]

Why? because MM spends more on american salaries and marketing? it seems they also have to offer and inferior product at twice the cost and I cant help but see this and say something is not right? is it cost of materials?

I will say that while I am happy with my Monster Mill (pictures above) I'm not sure if I'd buy from them again.

I first tried the slotted mill, the $400 one. Their description made it sound like a much better design than the knurled rollers, so I decided to give it a shot. I spent months trying to get good efficiency numbers out of that mill. Thanks to a number of really helpful members here, I eventually figured out that I wasn't getting a fine enough crush. The problem was that the finest mill gap I could set on the MM-2Pro SL was 0.022" which simply isn't fine enough for BIAB brewing.

I emailed Monster Brewing and described the problems I was having. To their credit, they offered a number of suggestions. However, when I pointed out that their website states the mill is adjustable down to a mill gap of 0, and I couldn't get it past 0.022", they wouldn't own up to that being an issue. With the design of the slotted mill, if the minimum gap is 0.022", a substantial portion of the grain is being crushed at a much larger gap if it ends up between two slots, where the mill gap is going to be closer to 0.060".

Eventually I requested that I exchange the rollers for the knurled ones and be refunded the difference. Monster Mills was happy to do so, again to their credit. The knurled rollers are slightly larger and thus allow for a much finer mill gap. They're also uniform, so all the grain is crushed at the same setting. When I made my next batch of beer, my efficiency numbers soared by something like 15-20%.

So I ended up with a nice mill that works great, but did buying an American made mill make that process easier? No. I made 8 batches of beer trying to get that slotted mill to work well. If you add up all the time and ingredient cost of those batches, it's substantial. And the problem ended up being that the mill wasn't as advertised. On the flip side, I spent countless hours reading about efficiency in an attempt to diagnose my problem, and ended up developing an understanding of it I probably wouldn't have if I had just bought a mill that worked well right away

Edited to add that I bought my mill motor from All American Ale Works, and they were fantastic. I had a small issue installing the shaft coupler, and sent them an email on a Saturday. I received a reply within minutes. They offered to pay a local machine shop to modify one of the parts if needed so I could have it working as quickly as possible. They also offered to ship a whole new motor with the coupler already installed. Neither suggestion ended up being necessary, but I thought the service was fantastic.

 

[day_trippr]

I understand what a pita it was to end up where you are now, but as a BC owner with ~3000 pounds through it I'm always looking over my shoulder wondering if the next batch will be the one that the BC starts with the sticking idler roller under 15 pounds of grain in the bin (I mill with the "Jaws" theme music in my head these days )

So, if you were to go at it again but went straight to the mm pro2 with knurled rollers what would your impression be?
Also, do they offer true hardened rollers or do they stick with the "harder grade steel" claim?

Cheers!

 

[Epos7]

So, if you were to go at it again but went straight to the mm pro2 with knurled rollers what would your impression be?

Pretty happy with the MM-2Pro with knurled rollers. I don't foresee it ever wearing out under normal homebrewing use. Maybe I'll have to replace the bushings eventually, but that's about it. I certainly wouldn't have had issues with efficiency if I had started with the knurled rollers.

The one caveat - on both the SL rollers and the knurled rollers, the flats on the shaft were not ground to an equal depth. This means the shaft is not centered in a drill chuck, and it "chugs" a bit in use. This isn't an issue with the Lovejoy shaft couplers, and is a big part of what motivated me to build the table with the drive motor.

Just felt like a guinea pig or beta tester for the MM2-Pro SL. Two years later and they still have the mill gap listed as 0 - .160", so either they updated the mill, or they haven't updated the specs. I'd be curious to know which.

I paid for the hardened rollers so I hope that's what they are I believe their standard rollers are 1144 steel, and I have heat treated 1144 steel.

If I didn't have the time or budget to build a table with a drive motor, I'd look at the Kegco mill or the Crankandstein mills. For a setup like mine though, I think it's hard to beat the MM2-Pro with hardened knurled rollers.

 

[day_trippr]

Thanks for your detailed assessment, it's appreciated and filed for future reference...

Cheers!

 

[Epos7]

No problem, hope it's useful!

 

[LeeH]

Well I ordered one back on the 26th or 26th and got an email from him stating the bucket issue. Said he would ship it with his coffee instead of the bucket or give me 5 bucks off and ship it with out either. Asked him to hold the coffee and ship it without the bucket. traded emails back and forth and never heard another word. JUST got off the phone with him and "Oh sorry, it hasn't shipped yet."

Seams like a nice guy, just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Supposed to be on the way. Updates to come.

Any update? He’s not replying to emails now.

 

[JohnSand]

Wow, sorry that you both are having trouble with Millar. I don't remember any delay, and I love mine.

 

[LeeH]

Don’t know why he won’t respond to a simple ‘are the buckets in stock yet’ email.

 

[AnthonyTD]

It vote for the millmaster. Not easy for you guys in the US to source but the same price as the monster mil but with driven and fluted rollers.
http://mashmaster.mobile034.com/p/4571858/millmaster-grain-mill.html

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

It vote for the millmaster. Not easy for you guys in the US to source but the same price as the monster mil but with driven and fluted rollers.
http://mashmaster.mobile034.com/p/4571858/millmaster-grain-mill.html

Those fluted rollers look sweet

 

[dstockwell]

Ugly junk Corona works just fine.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Those fluted rollers look sweet

Agreed the fluted rollers look wonderful...but do they perform?

Need to “look” past the pictures and marketing lol.

If you followed all the previous posts from Epos7 above, his MM w slotted rollers was a boondoggle. With the mill fully tightened, the gap between slots was way excessive and resulted in a lame product imo.

Salt on the wound that the driveshaft wasn’t concentric and caused the drill to wobble. Sorry MM I would expect more for the $$$ jmo.

Just say no to bushings....bearings only cost like a dollar each...really?

Bushings on a mill at the MM price range is questionable imo.

 

[ITV]

The Captain Crush has a god awful reputation as well and on paper it looks like a nice mill but once you talk to those who own one the story becomes clear and that's a $300 mill

I own a Captain Crush and I had two problems that I overcame.

The first problem was that my 3/8" corded Milwaukee drill was too weak to drive the 3 roller mill. I solved this problem with an American Ale Works motor which is overkill but works great.

The second and most common problem was that the non driven roller would stop spinning during a crush. I found that the problem was that I need to blow out the debris between the rollers and end plates with compressed air after each use. The manual states that you can clean out the mill with water, this made matters worse since the grain dust and water combination would gum up causing the non driven roller to stop spinning. So by keeping my mill dry and blowing it clean with compressed air prevented my roller stalling problem.

 

[day_trippr]

Jeeze, I came away with a completely different impression wrt that millmaster mill. I think the concept (adjustable gear driven rollers) is a winner from the jump (I've always wondered why that hadn't been done before) and I don't have a problem with bushings as long as they're appropriately sized and good grade.

Otherwise, I'd look for user testimonials to gain insight into actual performance. Could be something there. And I certainly wouldn't visit the sins of Monster on this mill. Slotted /= contoured flutes, and the failure to provide a concentric drive point is MM's mistake alone until demonstrated otherwise...

Cheers!

 

[AnthonyTD]

Agreed the fluted rollers look wonderful...but do they perform?

Need to “look” past the pictures and marketing lol.

If you followed all the previous posts from Epos7 above, his MM w slotted rollers was a boondoggle. With the mill fully tightened, the gap between slots was way excessive and resulted in a lame product imo.

Salt on the wound that the driveshaft wasn’t concentric and caused the drill to wobble. Sorry MM I would expect more for the $$$ jmo.

Just say no to bushings....bearings only cost like a dollar each...really?

Bushings on a mill at the MM price range is questionable imo.

I can't speak to for the monster mil because I don't have one but I do have the mashmaster and can vouch for the design.
Since it is geared the flutes mesh perfectly. My crush is fine enough and I am no where near the finest setting. Also since I the flutes perform a cutting then crushing action the husks are not pulverised and mostly intact. I am lead to believe that this is a good thing.

Regarding bearings vs bushings, while bearings don't wear as fast bushings have the advantage of being more precise (till they are worn).
I however believe it is a moot point as a home brewer is probably never going to wear down either in a hurry.

 

[LeeH]

Can somebody else try contacting Millar? I’m trying to get this mill here before Xmas....

Thanks.

 

[LeeH]

Looks like I'll be buying another one...

 

[Rev2010]

I understand what a pita it was to end up where you are now, but as a BC owner with ~3000 pounds through it I'm always looking over my shoulder wondering if the next batch will be the one that the BC starts with the sticking idler roller under 15 pounds of grain in the bin (I mill with the "Jaws" theme music in my head these days )

I always have to question those who report putting such numbers as 3000lbs of grain though the Barley Crusher without having it yet to wear down. But just reading your post I got to wondering... how many wheat based beers do you do? And when you do them do you tighten the gap being wheat kernels are smaller? I ask cause I realized when I had a BC I did a ton of wheat beers and it was obvious by the drill working that much harder that wheat being so hard probably was much tougher on the rollers. With the Monster Mill it chewed through the grains easier also lightening the work on the drill, even with the same tight gap I used on the BC.

The BC was a good mill for the beginner looking to just get started, but the false advertisement of lifetime guarantee is a real turn off and for not much more one can get a much much better mill these days. I also can't believe people are still buying them.


Rev.

 

[day_trippr]

So I've had the mill for going on eight years and brew 150~200 gallons each year. At most I've run about 2-3% wheat through compared to all else. Mostly because the one wheat beer I keep on tap for those who aren't into hoppy and uber-hoppy brews is not a big hitter compared to the other five (neipas, a kolsch and my absolutely-gotta-have imperial chocolate stout).

The three things I think have contributed to the mill's longevity are ensuring the frame is square and never shifts its geometry under load, running it at a modest pace (180 rpm), and blowing it out with a compressor after every use. And I suppose I could count the minimal wheat exposure as a fourth factor.

fwiw, I have had it slip occasionally over all those brews, but nothing pathological. Yet. In fact I thought it might finally be on its way to Mill Heaven lately with more frequent slippage but then last weekend it blew right through 25 pounds of Weyermann pilsner without a hiccup...

Cheers!

 

[gunhaus]

Some great info in here! But I am feeling a tad nostalgic on the holiday and i wondered if anyone remembers when we could actually brew great tasting beer with a pair of modified buckets, a re-purposed meat grinder, a borrowed canning pot, a carboy, and Charlie P's book? Oh well . . . Ya know my first all grain batch cost me about 45 bucks for gear and ingredients (Not counting that borrowed canning pot - thanks mom!) Now it appears it is difficult to brew a barely tolerable barley pop without a 1k dollar grain beater- upper! I must be getting old!~~` Anyway - Might have to get me one of them new ones from SS - if only for the cool factor!

 

[wilserbrewer]

...a carboy, and Charlie P's book? !

You had a carboy? You were privileged, I had the book, no carboys...I was using recycled buckets w/ make shift airlocks.
Less was more years ago lol.
Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[papz]

You had recycled buckets?
You were privileged, I had the book as a fermenter!!
=================================
"Grain Mills..... Best one, Why?"
Best grain mill is the one at the LHBS.
"why" because I am not the person who has to clean it.
(It is pretty nice though. Would run around 2 grand if you or i were to buy one like it.)

 

[devils4ever]

I went through the same thing recently and bought the Monster Mill MM2 Pro with hardened rollers and keyed shaft with an AAW motor. See link. You will not be disappointed. I can't image a better mill setup. Not cheap, but worth it. The 3 roller mill saw no real benefits that I could tell.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...mm2-pro-aaw-motor-project-is-complete.636343/

 

[Cato1507]

I'm happy with my Barley Crusher. It works well for my BIAB. I use a drill and since I do 5gal or less batches I can always double crush if need be.

Blow it out with my compressor when it's done and clean as a whistle. Works for me.

 

[Epos7]

Jeeze, I came away with a completely different impression wrt that millmaster mill. I think the concept (adjustable gear driven rollers) is a winner from the jump (I've always wondered why that hadn't been done before) and I don't have a problem with bushings as long as they're appropriately sized and good grade.

Otherwise, I'd look for user testimonials to gain insight into actual performance. Could be something there. And I certainly wouldn't visit the sins of Monster on this mill. Slotted /= contoured flutes, and the failure to provide a concentric drive point is MM's mistake alone until demonstrated otherwise...

Cheers!

Yes the Millmaster design looks different than what Monster has. The contoured flutes are an interesting concept. I like the stainless steel for ease of maintenance. It says hardened, and I'd be curious to know how it's hardness stacks up against Monster Mills' heat treated 1144.

I can only speak to the Monster Mills product, but I do think their slotted rollers could work well with two modifications:

1) If the rollers were slightly larger in diameter, or the bushings slightly closer together, the mill gap would be fully adjustable.

2) Make the slots shallower. I checked my notes, and the grooves on the Monster slotted mill were 0.030" deep, thus at the minimum setting of 0.022", there are three different mill gaps during grain crush: 0.022", 0.052", and 0.082". I'd go as low as I could while still allowing the trailing edge to grab the grain. Say 0.005" deep off the top of my head. This would produce a maximum variance during grain crush of 0.010".

The flutes on the Millmaster are significantly narrower, and in combination with the contoured design, I expect that behaves differently. Also worth mentioning is that the Millmaster uses 1.5" rollers while some of the Monster Mills use 2" rollers. When I was shopping for a mill, 2" rollers was one of my criteria. My memory is fuzzy, but it had something to do with angle of incidence. Of course, a 1.5" roller may work best with Millmaster's design.