Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Ktaco]

Thanks for the help. First reading I took was just the wort. 1.14. Two days later I realized my mistake and took another reading. 1.060. Today, following your advise, I took another reading. 1.008! So something has been happening. And some krausen on top.

Is 1.06 and 1.008 in line with what others have gotten?

My son and I tasted the hydrometer sample and both thought it tastes tart and like grapefruit. I thought almost vinegar-y. Dry on the tongue.

What are your opinions on going on to secondary? If going straight to bottling, or if bottling after secondary, are you adding any sugar for carbonation? I didn't see that in the in the recipe. Or I missed it.

 

[RobertMT]

You can go to secondary if you want. @ 1.008 it still has room to drop. You can either wait for it to stabilize, for three days, same reading or bottle it and pasteurize it, when it has carbed enough.

I wait for 1.002, cold crash to clear and bottle it, I do PET test bottle and stovetop pasteurization, to stop it.

 

[CHansen6]

I just made my first batch. Went with basically the initially published recipe. I figure it's best to start basic, and make mods on subsequent batches. Looking forward to trying this out.

4 gallons of Kirkland Apple Juice
1lb light and 1lb Amber DME
.5lb C60 and 2oz torrified wheat steeped in DME solution at 155ish for 30min.
.5oz Citra added for 30min boil
1tsp yeast nutrient @15min (can't hurt)
1/4tsp irish moss @15min (out of habit)

I ended with basically exactly 5 gallons. The hydrometer sample read in at 1.058, and was pretty clear. There was some fair hot break suspended, and the beer portion seems to have good head retention properties already. Pitched half a washed yeast cake of Wyeast 1098. Should be chugging along shortly.

 

[Restonbrewer]

I just cashed my 1st keg of Graff. I also followed the recipe to a T. However mine took quite a while to mellow out and really get a good flavor going. I added apple flavoring to mine and let it sit in my keg for months. After that is was a beautiful really tasty cider/beer with a good kick to it.

 

[kymo]

Made my first batch about a month ago.

Nottingham yeast
.5 lbs of Crystal 120
1 oz of torrified wheat
4 Gallons of Whole Foods apple juice
1 gallon of water
1 lb. amber DME
1 lb. light DME
1/2 lb. Brown sugar

.5 oz Mt Hood hops

Pectic enzyme and irish moss to help clear it out
Added Yeast nutrient

Fermented at 55f for 1 month. (Didn't have a ferm chamber set up yet)

OG was 1.062 and it's now sitting at 1.006 after a month.


From the hydro sample I drank, it tasted decent, but I didn't love it. Maybe carbing it up would bring some life to it. Adding the brown sugar may have dried it out more than I would have liked, or the Nottingham was more attenuative than I expected. It was quite tart, with faint apple character and a very thin body.

I ended up racking it on top of 4 lbs fresh apples, and will let it sit for another month or two. I'll probably rack it off the apples and let it age for a few more months, and possibly dry hop with Galaxy before cold crashing, fining, and bottling.

I will report back with results.

 

[Dangeruss]

My crazy version of this was 7# 2-row, 11 oz of Chocolate Malt cold steeped and added to the boil, 45 minute boil. 1oz Crystal hops 30 minute boil (3.3 Alpha), 1.5 oz Crystal and .5 oz Blood Orange Peel and 2 tbs Toasted Fennel Seeds at 5 minute mark. Chill wort to about 80 and had about 1.25 on top of 4 gallon of Kirkland AJ. added us-05. Ferment about 62. Kegged with naturally carbonation of 75 grams of brown sugar/water boil. Final product. Little trace of citrus, fennel is presence with apple and little malt backbone. Some don't like fennel/anise/Licorice but I am digging it.

 

[CHansen6]

I am kegging tonight, should have about 4.5 gallons. This stuff dried out. After basically 1 month, it's down to 1.000, which clocks it in around 7.6%. The taste is pretty neutral. I fermented it in the mid to upper 60's, but still I expected more esters and character from the yeast. Faint apple, and not much else. Once cooled down and carbed up, hopefully it should have more character. If not, I may dryhop it with something tropical or maybe fruit it.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

What is a normal final gravity people are getting? I'm at about 1.007 which I'm guessing is about where it should be?

 

[CHansen6]

Most of the FG's I've been seeing are right around 1.006-8. Mine finished really dry for reasons that I still don't understand. Cooled and carbed it's fairly good, but I was looking for a little more residual sweetness and malt character.

 

[dstockwell]

So this what I tried.

3 lb Pale ale
2 oz. Crystal 120
2 oz. CaraPils

Mash 154 for 60 min in one gallon water
Boil 30 minutes with .15 oz Sonnet 4.2 AA
Cool wort add 2 Gal of Apple Juice.

Nottingham Yeast
IBU: 7
ABV: 6.5

Boiled the wort harder than I should have and ended up with 3/4G of 1.087 to mix with 2 gallons of juice. Just tried the first one, slight tart flavor, tastes good, but I think the next time I will make a 1 1/4G wort somewhere around 1.110 and add two gallons of juice. Should end with a 1.070, and maybe wont finish as dry. First batch finished @ 1.008.

 

[rpcvsam]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1460393009.321886.jpg here is my first Graff, bottled April 7, drank April 11! Thanks! It's pretty good. Also I followed the recipe and added 4 oz of dextrose for added body. It's thickened nicely.

 

[yogi223]

Question regarding timing:

I have never made beer but I have made wine and cider so this one is a little out of my comfort zone.

I made this graff last Saturday following the recipe exactly. So today(6 days) I am having airlock activity at a rate of 1 per 10-11 seconds. I probably should not have but couldn't resist taking a sample and a gravity reading. It is 1.02 tonight.

Tasted pretty good but I was thinking it would have dropped a little more than this by now. It has been held to below 60 degrees during the fermentation.

Any thoughts to how long to leave it in the primary or what is the target FB?

 

[Jwin]

Question regarding timing:

I have never made beer but I have made wine and cider so this one is a little out of my comfort zone.

I made this graff last Saturday following the recipe exactly. So today(6 days) I am having airlock activity at a rate of 1 per 10-11 seconds. I probably should not have but couldn't resist taking a sample and a gravity reading. It is 1.02 tonight.

Tasted pretty good but I was thinking it would have dropped a little more than this by now. It has been held to below 60 degrees during the fermentation.

Any thoughts to how long to leave it in the primary or what is the target FB?

What yeast are you using?
Below 60 is pretty low for most ale yeast. May need to warm it a tad.
Is that below 60 ambient or internal?

 

[yogi223]

What yeast are you using?
Below 60 is pretty low for most ale yeast. May need to warm it a tad.
Is that below 60 ambient or internal?

Thanks. I am using Safale-05. The local brew store recommended to keep the temp between 50-60. Ambient temp is 70. I have it sitting in water and I have been added frozen bottles to keep the water temp between 50-60 so really it an estimate on the internal temp.

 

[Jwin]

Let the current bottles melt and the temp rise and the yeast will finish up
05 is very forgiving of temperature, up past mid 70s
Upper 60s can be pretty clean.
If it is in the 50s, low 60s past primary fermentation, it's probably being stressd.
Most ale yeasts are happy in the mid-uppee 60s, fine up low 70s. Some are OK lower (kolsch).

 

[yogi223]

Thanks for the advice. I will do that and hopefully post back positive results in a few days.

 

[yogi223]

I made some mistakes but I bottled this a couple of days ago and after 3 days I put this in the fridge. I had a couple of them tonight and they are very good. Not quite as dry as I wanted but a very good beverage.

 

[elbinwyp]

I just brewed my second batch of this. The first was good but definitely a cider, not a beer. I am trying to inch this closer to being a beer. Here's my variation:

1lb wheat DME
1lb Light DME
8oz Crystal 120
8oz Honey Malt
2 oz torrified wheat
4oz Maltodextrin
just under .5oz centennial (I had it in the freezer)

I am pitching this on some washed Wyeast 3711 french Saison yeast

Should be interesting.

 

[Hankhill11]

I have jumped on the band wagon and put the original recipe together.
2 lb dme (1 light and 1 amber)
.5 lb crystal 120
torrified wheat
.4 oz hops
musslemans juice
Notty yeast. (I really wanted S05)

so does anyone have a comparison of Notty to S05? all i had was notty and S04 on hand so went with the runner up suggestion.

 

[Lefou]

I've got a variation of this in the primary now in need of bottling. Instead of going small and light, I went large and dark with 5 gallons at a starting gravity of 1.070 using a large starter of Safale S-04. Had to use a blowoff and the top fermenting yeast cap took forever to drop, unlike the krausen on my German dark wheat which only took two weeks to drop. The topic of a malted cider is interesting to me, but in the future, I think I'm going to go with a lighter brew with a lower gravity.

 

[karmabrew]

Just curious, has anyone tried making a beer and a cider separately,and then blending to taste at the end? Apologies if it's been mentioned earlier in the the thread. There's a lot of posts to read through!

 

[elbinwyp]

Just curious, has anyone tried making a beer and a cider separately,and then blending to taste at the end? Apologies if it's been mentioned earlier in the the thread. There's a lot of posts to read through!

I have mixed a hefeweizen and a fermented cider 50/50. I actually preferred it to the the graff.

 

[Hankhill11]

anyone ever use AUSTRALIAN GALAXY HOP PELLETS for this ? I wanted something with nice aroma but not to bitter, and this is what my LHBS gave me.

 

[yogi223]

I just pitched the yeast on another batch of this. Only change on this batch was 2 oz of torrified wheat.

This makes me want to start kegging.

 

[Hankhill11]

I'm only on page 225ish of this but my graff has been fermenting for 2 weeks. I haven't seen a very consistent consensus regarding clearing of the graff. Mine is nowhere near clear right now, and cider tends to take what it takes to clear.. an extra week, an extra month... you know. So how long does the Graff normally take to drop clear on its own?

 

[CHansen6]

It took a while, but mine cleared. I did cool the wort portion before adding to the juice. It took around a 4-5 weeks in the carboy for the yeast/protein/etc to drop. I suspect cold crashing or gelatin would have accelerated the process. I just poured a sample, and can read through the glass. Well as good as you can read through a tulip that distorts everything, and is condensing water out of the air like crazy.

As an aside, I've had this kegged for about 2 months now and it's really coming into it's own. The acidity originally present in the brew has softened a bit and is melding nicely.

I think this would be improved by slightly more sweetness. I'm thinking of adding a little honey malt or maybe using a medium English crystal malt next time.

 

[jpoppinmoneyunit]

Well guys, I've been making this with success most times but I really only have access to store bought juice. I feel like it needs some more body and substance. It is drinkable but I really wonder how it would taste with some fresh pressed juice..

Anyone have suggestions for improving store bought juice in terms of body and flavor?

 

[elbinwyp]

Well guys, I've been making this with success most times but I really only have access to store bought juice. I feel like it needs some more body and substance. It is drinkable but I really wonder how it would taste with some fresh pressed juice..

Anyone have suggestions for improving store bought juice in terms of body and flavor?

I just started drinking my second variation. My goal was to add more body and to minimize the store bought cider bite. Complete success. I am thrilled with this version:
1lb wheat DME
1lb Light DME
8oz Crystal 120
8oz Honey Malt
2 oz torrified wheat
4oz Maltodextrin
just under .5oz centennial
4 gallons cheap apple juice
Wyeast 3711 saison yeast

 

[jpoppinmoneyunit]

Awesome! Thanks for the ideas. next time around I def need to do a little tweaking.

 

[yogi223]

I am really liking this drink. I still have some of my first batch and I am also drinking some of the 2nd. This will be a staple in my stable for some time.