Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Cainmos]

Just started 2 gal with the following:

Brettanomyces Trois - WLP644

1.5 gal Langer's 100% Apple Juice (SG 1.046)

3.2oz 60L Briess Caramel Malt
0.4oz Torrified Wheat
12.8oz DME (50/50 Golden Light 4L / Sparkling Amber 10L)
0.2oz Nelson Sauvin Hops

Final SG = 1.066

 

[NickAus]

Just brewed this tonight, smells fantastic! I used Simcoe hops, scaled right down so they aren't too overpowering (0.5g per litre, 13%AA), and only did 9.6L as that's all the juice I had. Will let you know how it goes!

Oh, I sort of FWH with my version, accidentally threw the hops in before bringing to a boil, should be good as gold though.

 

[Aarong2008]

Just tasted my graff. After a week of bottle conditioning and 3 hours in the fridge, it tasted amazing. I'm very happy I brewed this.

 

[redzeker]

Just tasted my graff. After a week of bottle conditioning and 3 hours in the fridge, it tasted amazing. I'm very happy I brewed this.

Did you prime and if so, what and how much did you use?

 

[brewski09]

I would prime this lightly. 1.8 volumes of co2 would be my target. You can use that to get a priming calculator like the one from Northern Brewer going.

 

[jakeasaur]

Brewed this about 7 weeks ago. Drinking one now. One week in the bottle. 1 day in the fridge. If I would of put more than one in the fridge I'd have another.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I think I'll try this recipe next. Only instead of 2 lbs DME I would mash 3 lbs of 2-Row, together with 0.5 lbs of C-60 in a gallon of water.

 

[richlong8020]

So what's the updated recipe that is the general consensus of what everyone likes. I want to make another batch but there are sooooo many different options.



~RDWHAHB~

 

[hunter_le five]

So what's the updated recipe that is the general consensus of what everyone likes. I want to make another batch but there are sooooo many different options.

~RDWHAHB~

I've made the Colonel's Original Recipe... er, I meand BrandonO's... several times now and have thoroughly enjoyed it each time. I haven't tried any tweaked versions yet, but I think for my next batch I might change the juice-to-beer ratio to make it a bit maltier. Instead of 4:1, maybe 3:2?

 

[richlong8020]

That's exactly what I was gonna do. 3:2. I also wanted to have it a little maltier. I'll stick with the original recipe and check out the new batch.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[MrSnacks]

Has anyone used WLP002/WY1968 with this recipe in an attempt to preserve some sugars and get a higher FG?

 

[Aarong2008]

@redzeker I did prime and I used 5 oz of corn sugar. I didn't see the notification, that's why I took forever to respond.

I tasted a bottle after a week and it had a sweet taste to it which wasn't overpowering. Now it's turned to a more tart taste, has anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[Aarong2008]

Has anyone tried adding cinnamon to their batches?

 

[Recluse]

So, today I cracked open a bottle of Graff that I bottled almost exactly 5 years ago. (Sept 27, 2009) Was drinkable, but not that good. Can't quite describe the flavor. The maltiness was very forward, but the apple notes were present. Just tasted a little stale. It kind of grew on me as I drank it though...

Honestly, I cannot remember how it tasted when first made, but I think I liked it more when new, but not enough to make it again. I did not use ANY hops. At the time I was in a no-hop phase, trying to make Gruits with other herbs. The hops might have given it a little more life.

Anyone keep Graff around that long? What was your experience?

 

[brewski09]

Has anyone used WLP002/WY1968 with this recipe in an attempt to preserve some sugars and get a higher FG?

That yeast works well for ciders. I wouldn't expect to much difference in your residual sugars though because this sort is so highly fermentable to start with.

@redzeker I did prime and I used 5 oz of corn sugar. I didn't see the notification, that's why I took forever to respond.

I tasted a bottle after a week and it had a sweet taste to it which wasn't overpowering. Now it's turned to a more tart taste, has anyone else had a similar experience?

At one week there was likely some priming sugar still. Yeasts tend to take around 2 weeks in my experience to chew through corn sugar in the bottle (I think it has to do with the pressure being formed).

Has anyone tried adding cinnamon to their batches?

I would slice this with "holiday" or "pie" spices. That sounds fantastic. Just go light because you can never remove the slices once they are added. I may even say do it as a split batch and blend them back together to get the flavors you want.

 

[smAllGrain]

Hey 269 pages on this thread! Sorry for not looking through all of this, so my question may have been already answered..... I want to do a 2.5 or 3 gallon batch. Anyone want to give me a hand with that? This is what I have.

.25#Crystal 120L
.5oz Carapils (dont have Torrified Wheat on hand)
2 Gal Apple Juice
.5 Gal Water
1# DME
No Hops

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated

 

[WinterWarrior]

Brewed this up this past week and it's bubbling away. Used the OP's recipe and Crystal hops.

I made a hopped cider last month dry hopping with Citra hops and it turned out awesome.

Now that I've already made the graff, think I'll go back and read more than 6 pages of the thread. Wonder how many head-smacking posts I'll read. This recipe was just too intriguing to wait!

 

[riderkb]

I'm planning in using a juice extractor
It's a fruit and veg juicer that we use for breakfast juice
Apple juice comes with a lot of scum when using an extractor hence why I would bring it to a boil or 71 degrees like suggested, skim the ****e off the top pass it through a muslin cloth and what's left is clear juice
Is this ok.. No chemicals there like sorbate acid citric acid or worse aspartame like store bought apple juice



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If you are going to use sulfite it is a good idea to soak the whole apples in the sulfite solution for a few minutes before you crush them. The sulfite protects the juice from oxidation and you get a lighter colored, fresher tasting product. My father-in-law and I did some with sulfite on the apples and some with sulfite in the juice. The stuff that we sulfited in the juice was obviously oxidized just minutes after squeezing.

 

[brewski09]

Good point. Thanks for the tip.


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[chasemandingo]

So I have a batch of pretty traditional graf going. I did happen to use montrachet wine yeast though. However, I got me some safale 05 and wanna do another batch. I was going for 3 gallons of cider, gonna spice it with cinnamon, cloves and a little ginger. Gonna use honey to up the s.g. and maple syrup to prime bottles. I am an experienced wine maker but these two batches are my first foray into brewing. Ran into trouble when I was steeping grains last night for my first batch. The .75 gallons of water in my 5 gallon kettle caused the nylon grain bag to touch the bottom. Ended up melting and when I picked up my grain i began to loose some grains to the wort lol. I ended up fixing the problem however I would like to have more water in the kettle this time. Anyone able to give me a recipe for the mashing part of this adventure? My cider comes in at 1.05 and I was gonna used 3 lbs of honey. Looking for an s.g. around 1.074. I'm just not experienced with sugar content from malts. I was gonna do .75 lbs of caramel L60, .25 of cherrywood smoked malt, 2 oz flaked wheat, and two lbs of amber dme. What would this get me to in terms of s.g.? Also, should I tweak the hops at all? I have hallertau, Mt. Rainier, and Crystal. Thanks for any advice you can give a noob like me.

 

[brewski09]

So I have a batch of pretty traditional graf going. I did happen to use montrachet wine yeast though. However, I got me some safale 05 and wanna do another batch. I was going for 3 gallons of cider, gonna spice it with cinnamon, cloves and a little ginger. Gonna use honey to up the s.g. and maple syrup to prime bottles. I am an experienced wine maker but these two batches are my first foray into brewing. Ran into trouble when I was steeping grains last night for my first batch. The .75 gallons of water in my 5 gallon kettle caused the nylon grain bag to touch the bottom. Ended up melting and when I picked up my grain i began to loose some grains to the wort lol. I ended up fixing the problem however I would like to have more water in the kettle this time. Anyone able to give me a recipe for the mashing part of this adventure? My cider comes in at 1.05 and I was gonna used 3 lbs of honey. Looking for an s.g. around 1.074. I'm just not experienced with sugar content from malts. I was gonna do .75 lbs of caramel L60, .25 of cherrywood smoked malt, 2 oz flaked wheat, and two lbs of amber dme. What would this get me to in terms of s.g.? Also, should I tweak the hops at all? I have hallertau, Mt. Rainier, and Crystal. Thanks for any advice you can give a noob like me.

A quick note on mashing. Your 60L doesn't need to be mashed, only steeped. The smoked and flaked however do need to be mashed and have no enzymes/diastatic power (neither does your dme). You need a small addition of 2 row, usually about equal to the grains needing to be mashed. I would mash all of your grains (60L, smoked, flaked) with a pound of 2 row.






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[chasemandingo]

So after reading an explanation of the difference between steeping specialty grain and mashing other types of malt I am still confused. So the flaked wheat and smoked malt have no diastatic power and need to be mashed with 2 row that will have enough enzymatic action to convert their starches to fermentable sugars? I thought the smoked malt only added flavor and aroma and color. And in the original recipe the wheat is only steeped and is said to help head retention. However, I understand how the starches from the wheat would still be hydrolyzed into fermentables. Anyway, I am assuming you mean that all the ingredients could go into one mesh straining bag and be mashed with no ill effect? Could you please describe that process as I am a complete beginner when it comes to beer!

 

[chasemandingo]

Would mashing mean resting at certain temperatures so enzymatic actions can occur on my way up to 170. Then sparge with a little extra water at 170 then do my boil and hop addition?

 

[brewski09]

Check out brew in a bag (BIAB). It may be more what you are looking for in this application. But yes, mashing is basically holding the temp near 150F for about an hour to get the enzymatic activity. There is more to it, but that's the basic philosophy. You want it to be like a thick batter or thin oatmeal. Look into the complete joy of Homebrewing (any edition will do) or free online john Palmer how to brew (I don't agree with everything he says, but it will get you started right now and is free). They should both give you a good description of what to do and how to do it as well as what is actually going on. Brew your own magazine has also been immensely helpful to me over the years (subscriber for 3-4 years now).


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[chasemandingo]

Cool. I have seen that acronym before. I will look into BIAB and go from there. Thank you for your help. Any advice on what type of 2 row malt to get? Seem to be so many varieties that it is mind boggling!

 

[brewski09]

Whatever is in stock. Look for plump kernels. You should be able to chew them without going to the dentist. My LHBS carries Briess and I've never had a problem. Marris Otter is a brand that is maltier and known for its premium status.


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[smAllGrain]

So fun fact. I attempted to make Graff this weekend and I added 8oz of Crystal 120L and 1oz of Carapils to 3 Gallons of Graff instead of 5 Gallons. What ill effects might this have? :smack:

 

[brewski09]

Higher starting gravity and more fermentables. More alcohol in the end.


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[smAllGrain]

Higher starting gravity and more fermentables. More alcohol in the end.


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Flavor wise should I expect a big difference? That much more crystal wont it be sweeter & with that much carapils Ill have greater head?

 

[hopbrad]

you wont get much alcohol from that amount of crystal malt, plus they dont ferment out too much, especially darker crystal malts that are more caramelized. but youll get a darker cider/beer with a little more maltiness