Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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Has anyone used WLP002/WY1968 with this recipe in an attempt to preserve some sugars and get a higher FG?
 
@redzeker I did prime and I used 5 oz of corn sugar. I didn't see the notification, that's why I took forever to respond.

I tasted a bottle after a week and it had a sweet taste to it which wasn't overpowering. Now it's turned to a more tart taste, has anyone else had a similar experience?
 
So, today I cracked open a bottle of Graff that I bottled almost exactly 5 years ago. (Sept 27, 2009) Was drinkable, but not that good. Can't quite describe the flavor. The maltiness was very forward, but the apple notes were present. Just tasted a little stale. It kind of grew on me as I drank it though...

Honestly, I cannot remember how it tasted when first made, but I think I liked it more when new, but not enough to make it again. I did not use ANY hops. At the time I was in a no-hop phase, trying to make Gruits with other herbs. The hops might have given it a little more life.

Anyone keep Graff around that long? What was your experience?
 
MrSnacks said:
Has anyone used WLP002/WY1968 with this recipe in an attempt to preserve some sugars and get a higher FG?
Click to expand...

That yeast works well for ciders. I wouldn't expect to much difference in your residual sugars though because this sort is so highly fermentable to start with.




Aarong2008 said:
@redzeker I did prime and I used 5 oz of corn sugar. I didn't see the notification, that's why I took forever to respond.

I tasted a bottle after a week and it had a sweet taste to it which wasn't overpowering. Now it's turned to a more tart taste, has anyone else had a similar experience?
Click to expand...


At one week there was likely some priming sugar still. Yeasts tend to take around 2 weeks in my experience to chew through corn sugar in the bottle (I think it has to do with the pressure being formed).




Aarong2008 said:
Has anyone tried adding cinnamon to their batches?
Click to expand...

I would slice this with "holiday" or "pie" spices. That sounds fantastic. Just go light because you can never remove the slices once they are added. I may even say do it as a split batch and blend them back together to get the flavors you want.
 
Hey 269 pages on this thread! Sorry for not looking through all of this, so my question may have been already answered..... I want to do a 2.5 or 3 gallon batch. Anyone want to give me a hand with that? This is what I have.

.25#Crystal 120L
.5oz Carapils (dont have Torrified Wheat on hand)
2 Gal Apple Juice
.5 Gal Water
1# DME
No Hops

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated
 
Brewed this up this past week and it's bubbling away. Used the OP's recipe and Crystal hops.

I made a hopped cider last month dry hopping with Citra hops and it turned out awesome.

Now that I've already made the graff, think I'll go back and read more than 6 pages of the thread. :) Wonder how many head-smacking posts I'll read. This recipe was just too intriguing to wait!
 
zamo27 said:
I'm planning in using a juice extractor
It's a fruit and veg juicer that we use for breakfast juice
Apple juice comes with a lot of scum when using an extractor hence why I would bring it to a boil or 71 degrees like suggested, skim the ****e off the top pass it through a muslin cloth and what's left is clear juice
Is this ok.. No chemicals there like sorbate acid citric acid or worse aspartame like store bought apple juice



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Click to expand...

If you are going to use sulfite it is a good idea to soak the whole apples in the sulfite solution for a few minutes before you crush them. The sulfite protects the juice from oxidation and you get a lighter colored, fresher tasting product. My father-in-law and I did some with sulfite on the apples and some with sulfite in the juice. The stuff that we sulfited in the juice was obviously oxidized just minutes after squeezing.
 
So I have a batch of pretty traditional graf going. I did happen to use montrachet wine yeast though. However, I got me some safale 05 and wanna do another batch. I was going for 3 gallons of cider, gonna spice it with cinnamon, cloves and a little ginger. Gonna use honey to up the s.g. and maple syrup to prime bottles. I am an experienced wine maker but these two batches are my first foray into brewing. Ran into trouble when I was steeping grains last night for my first batch. The .75 gallons of water in my 5 gallon kettle caused the nylon grain bag to touch the bottom. Ended up melting and when I picked up my grain i began to loose some grains to the wort lol. I ended up fixing the problem however I would like to have more water in the kettle this time. Anyone able to give me a recipe for the mashing part of this adventure? My cider comes in at 1.05 and I was gonna used 3 lbs of honey. Looking for an s.g. around 1.074. I'm just not experienced with sugar content from malts. I was gonna do .75 lbs of caramel L60, .25 of cherrywood smoked malt, 2 oz flaked wheat, and two lbs of amber dme. What would this get me to in terms of s.g.? Also, should I tweak the hops at all? I have hallertau, Mt. Rainier, and Crystal. Thanks for any advice you can give a noob like me.
 
chasemandingo said:
So I have a batch of pretty traditional graf going. I did happen to use montrachet wine yeast though. However, I got me some safale 05 and wanna do another batch. I was going for 3 gallons of cider, gonna spice it with cinnamon, cloves and a little ginger. Gonna use honey to up the s.g. and maple syrup to prime bottles. I am an experienced wine maker but these two batches are my first foray into brewing. Ran into trouble when I was steeping grains last night for my first batch. The .75 gallons of water in my 5 gallon kettle caused the nylon grain bag to touch the bottom. Ended up melting and when I picked up my grain i began to loose some grains to the wort lol. I ended up fixing the problem however I would like to have more water in the kettle this time. Anyone able to give me a recipe for the mashing part of this adventure? My cider comes in at 1.05 and I was gonna used 3 lbs of honey. Looking for an s.g. around 1.074. I'm just not experienced with sugar content from malts. I was gonna do .75 lbs of caramel L60, .25 of cherrywood smoked malt, 2 oz flaked wheat, and two lbs of amber dme. What would this get me to in terms of s.g.? Also, should I tweak the hops at all? I have hallertau, Mt. Rainier, and Crystal. Thanks for any advice you can give a noob like me.
Click to expand...


A quick note on mashing. Your 60L doesn't need to be mashed, only steeped. The smoked and flaked however do need to be mashed and have no enzymes/diastatic power (neither does your dme). You need a small addition of 2 row, usually about equal to the grains needing to be mashed. I would mash all of your grains (60L, smoked, flaked) with a pound of 2 row.






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So after reading an explanation of the difference between steeping specialty grain and mashing other types of malt I am still confused. So the flaked wheat and smoked malt have no diastatic power and need to be mashed with 2 row that will have enough enzymatic action to convert their starches to fermentable sugars? I thought the smoked malt only added flavor and aroma and color. And in the original recipe the wheat is only steeped and is said to help head retention. However, I understand how the starches from the wheat would still be hydrolyzed into fermentables. Anyway, I am assuming you mean that all the ingredients could go into one mesh straining bag and be mashed with no ill effect? Could you please describe that process as I am a complete beginner when it comes to beer!
 
Would mashing mean resting at certain temperatures so enzymatic actions can occur on my way up to 170. Then sparge with a little extra water at 170 then do my boil and hop addition?
 
Check out brew in a bag (BIAB). It may be more what you are looking for in this application. But yes, mashing is basically holding the temp near 150F for about an hour to get the enzymatic activity. There is more to it, but that's the basic philosophy. You want it to be like a thick batter or thin oatmeal. Look into the complete joy of Homebrewing (any edition will do) or free online john Palmer how to brew (I don't agree with everything he says, but it will get you started right now and is free). They should both give you a good description of what to do and how to do it as well as what is actually going on. Brew your own magazine has also been immensely helpful to me over the years (subscriber for 3-4 years now).


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Cool. I have seen that acronym before. I will look into BIAB and go from there. Thank you for your help. Any advice on what type of 2 row malt to get? Seem to be so many varieties that it is mind boggling!
 
Whatever is in stock. Look for plump kernels. You should be able to chew them without going to the dentist. My LHBS carries Briess and I've never had a problem. Marris Otter is a brand that is maltier and known for its premium status.


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So fun fact. I attempted to make Graff this weekend and I added 8oz of Crystal 120L and 1oz of Carapils to 3 Gallons of Graff instead of 5 Gallons. What ill effects might this have? :smack:
 
you wont get much alcohol from that amount of crystal malt, plus they dont ferment out too much, especially darker crystal malts that are more caramelized. but youll get a darker cider/beer with a little more maltiness
 
sportpak said:
Bottled 2.5 gallons yesterday. Roughly 6.5% abv and pretty tart. I'm optimistic after 3-4 weeks to carb/condition this will be pretty awesome. My only deviation was mt hood hops.
Click to expand...

At just over 2 weeks carbonation is almost there and hotness has mellowed nicely. This stuff is great. I need to get another batch of this on the schedule.
 
Hi guys, this recipe looks awesome.

Sorry for the noob question, but instead of using 2 pounds of DME, can we use all grain? If so, can anyone please suggest what type of base malt would taste good for Graf? I was thinking of using 2 Row Pale Malt (Gambrinus).

Also, would I use 3.5 pounds of all grain instead of the 2 pounds of DME that the recipe calls for?

Thanks
 
cheeseplease said:
Hi guys, this recipe looks awesome.

Sorry for the noob question, but instead of using 2 pounds of DME, can we use all grain? If so, can anyone please suggest what type of base malt would taste good for Graf? I was thinking of using 2 Row Pale Malt (Gambrinus).

Also, would I use 3.5 pounds of all grain instead of the 2 pounds of DME that the recipe calls for?

Thanks
Click to expand...

very good question!
I would be interesed to see what replies we get fot this
Also my LHBS is out of torrified wheat can thiis be substituted
 
I say just use the conversion chart that you can find online. That's what I do. As far as what type to use, that may be up to you. Let's see what the forum says.


~RDWHAHB~
 
So, im a complete noob but have put together a recipe I would like some input on. Here it goes.

.25 lbs caramel L60
.50 lbs Caramel L20
.25 cherrywood smoked malt
1 lbs 2-row brewers malt
light and amber DME
.3 oz crystal at 30mins
.3 oz crystal at 15
.3 oz crystal at 5

My plan is to mash for an hour at 155ish. Bring up to 170 for mash out and sparge with 170 degree water. Other than the obvious question of whether or not I have made an error so far, I would like to know how much water to add at the mash and sparge as well as how much DME to use. I have 2 lbs of light and 2 lbs amber. I also plan on only using 2.5 gallons of cider for this recipe and may bump up the s.g. with a little bochet of honey. Thoughts or concerns?
 
And a hop head like me wouldn't like this as much without more hops too.


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So I brewed this before but I used some crabapples and got a pretty tart, cidery graff. I brewed a new batch with straight Costco juice and for a lack of a better word it's pretty beery. Does that sound about right?

Followed the recipe, used Nottingham. Pretty straightforward. Doesn't taste bad, just tastes light a very light beer with hints of apple.
 
might be cool to blend them to see what you can come up with if the crabapples are too tart and the costco is too beery

MrSnacks said:
So I brewed this before but I used some crabapples and got a pretty tart, cidery graff. I brewed a new batch with straight Costco juice and for a lack of a better word it's pretty beery. Does that sound about right?

Followed the recipe, used Nottingham. Pretty straightforward. Doesn't taste bad, just tastes light a very light beer with hints of apple.
Click to expand...
 
If I want to use just the 2 lbs of DME and leave out the 60L, the torrified wheat, and the hops, how would I go about brewing this recipe?

Would I just bring the 1 gallon of water to a boil, then add the DME, and boil it for 30 minutes?

Thanks for your help



Here are the original directions:

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.
 
yea exactly, you could sub amber DME for both the 2lbs instead of 1lb light, 1 lb amber.
Extract is base malt with some cara/crystal already in it. The darker the extract, usually more or higher Lovibond crystal is in it. or Roasted malt if Dark extract is used.

cheeseplease said:
If I want to use just the 2 lbs of DME and leave out the 60L, the torrified wheat, and the hops, how would I go about brewing this recipe?

Would I just bring the 1 gallon of water to a boil, then add the DME, and boil it for 30 minutes?

Thanks for your help



Here are the original directions:

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.
Click to expand...
 
hopbrad said:
yea exactly, you could sub amber DME for both the 2lbs instead of 1lb light, 1 lb amber.
Extract is base malt with some cara/crystal already in it. The darker the extract, usually more or higher Lovibond crystal is in it. or Roasted malt if Dark extract is used.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response hopbrad.

Has anyone here ever tried making Graff with just the crystal, torrified wheat, hops, and no DME? Is the lack of DME noticeable?

Thanks :)
 
cheeseplease said:
Thanks for your response hopbrad.

Has anyone here ever tried making Graff with just the crystal, torrified wheat, hops, and no DME? Is the lack of DME noticeable?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I havent attempted this but the wort made with the DME is what provides fermentables other than the juice. I would imagine losing a gallon of wort would significantly change this recipe.
 
I'm looking for a gluten free option that isn't a traditional cider and this looks great! However, it does have DME. The tiny amount of specialty grains shouldn't affect people but the 2# of DME, while less than an regular beer, might still mess with people. Is there any other type of sugar that could even come close? Agave and Honey are the first two that come to mind but I think they would still give you a tart, watery cider.
 
FYI, if they actually need it to be gluten free, the specialty malt is too much. Look into clarity ferm sold by white labs. It might work for you/your friends. Maybe.


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So I ended up making an abomination. 2 lbs light malt extract, 2 lbs amber, 2 oz smoked malt, 4 oz caramel L20 6 oz L60, 2 oz flaked wheat, .3 crystal at 30, .3 oz crystal at 15 and another .3 at 2 minutes. Added 2 cans of libby's pumpkin at flame out. cinnamon and cloves added. The wort is in the bucket with some safale 05. It was 1.1 s.g. I'm bout to add the cider tonight. Ferment is def sluggish. I'm thinking the dilution with the cider should start it up again.
 
Ferment is going strong. Smells like pumpkin pie. I added some Kmeta to this batch. It doesn't seem like many people do this with beer. However, my wine making instincts wouldn't allow me not to lol.
 
I made this 12 days ago with hand squeezed juice from the neighbors tree. Checked on it yesterday and saw it's still bubbling. I'm concerned thinking fermentation should have been completed the first couple days. I have it in a fermenting bucket so I have not seen what lays inside. Doesn't smell putrid outside. Is there a good possibility I did not pasturize the juice hot or long enough and have something unwanted growing inside?
 

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