Giving away beer, receiving money for ingred.

[johngault007]

I personally don't like doing all the work for someone else. It's like keeping their house clean with no expected return, but they pay for the cleaning supplies.

My enjoyment is getting friends into one of the greatest hobbies ever! Watching their eyes when they learn new stuff about beer is the best.

 

[+HopSpunge+]

In new york state it is illegal to hang clothes on a clothesline without the proper license. But I don't see this being enforced either.

 

[Jamming]

I tell folks when they ask, Then it would be a job for me and take all the fun out of brewing.

 

[acidrain]

Who cares? Really... I don't.
If your friends want to give you money to cover costs, take it.

 

[brewguyver]

The one exception I see here is "brew on premise." In PA it's treated like a hobby store - you go in, buy extract and steeping grains, they coach you the brew, they handle fermentation, and then you come back and bottle.

The key here is that your coworkers buy the ingredients from you, make their beer with you, bottle it, and take it home. If the co-workers were to do the brewing with you (and that's actually something you want to do) then t's feasible. However it won't solve the Christmas issue.

 

[Phunhog]

These threads are always sooooo frustrating!! It is illegal!! However I have only heard of one case where someone was actually "caught" and even then nothing of any legal consequence happened. Of course that doesn't make it legal either!! My answer is to do what is morally and ethically right which may or may not line up with the legalities.

 

[snaps10]

A. $150 for 5 cases? Does this beer contain 24c gold flakes?

B. tell then to come over, swing by the homebrew shop, pick up this and this and this, and have a fun day learning to brew. Could you imagine how clean all of your equipment would be if you had 5 coworkers cleaning and helping during the brew day?!

My dad has a hard time taking more than a few bottles from me, because he knows how much money and energy I've put into brewing. So now, when he wants something specific we brew it together. I do 90% of it, and we have a few beers and a good time. We bottle 5 gallons and I keg 5 gallons and put it on tap. He takes the bottles home.

Personally, we're in the planning phase for a nano, but I have no interest in selling my home brew. Selling it is business, brewing at home is relaxing. Keep it that way.

 

[FTG-05]

Am I the only one who sees the irony in these types of threads- folks post looking for ways to loophole around an illegal activity, on the largest hobby alcohol producing website in the world, that may or may not at any given time be monitored by the TTB or Bots, looking for these sorts of dicussions, when in reality had the person NOT advertised his intentions and just gone and done it, no one would have been the wiser?

Pretty much the same thing when a gun owner complains about not being able to make a straw purchase of a firearm (I believe it is a felony to even attempt), then does it anyway (federal felony for sure), then complains about it on a major gun board: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1399054__sigh__Dick_s_and_straw_purchase_fiasco.html&page=1

 

[Phunhog]

I do think it is funny that people think that HBT is monitored by any gov't agency. They have much more important issues to deal with than some guy taking money from friends for some homebrew. Just not worth their time as evidenced by the total lack of fines/citations/arrests in the 30+ years of legal homebrewing. That being said....it is still illegal.

 

[downtown3641]

A few things to do and not do when getting reimbursed for ingredients:

1) Don't talk about it online. It's stupid for a couple of reasons. It increases your odds of being caught. Also, who gets advice on moral and legal reasoning from a bunch of strangers on the internet.
2) Only get reimbursed for the cost if the ingredients.
3) Keep receipts so you can show that you were only reimbursed for ingredients.

Or, better yet, just do it for free and have your friend buy you dinner or provide a service with a skill set that you don't possess.

 

[45_70sharps]

I do think it is funny that people think that HBT is monitored by any gov't agency. They have much more important issues to deal with than some guy taking money from friends for some homebrew. Just not worth their time as evidenced by the total lack of fines/citations/arrests in the 30+ years of legal homebrewing. That being said....it is still illegal.

You don't seem to be aware that there are quite a few people who's whole purpose is to bust people for alcohol manufacturing violations.

Besides, it's dumb to do sell alcohol without a license and it's worse to talk about it.
Mentioning it in a bar could get you busted, mentioning it on the internet where countless people read it is worse.
The alcohol enforcement officer wouldn't even need to find it on his own. He could be tipped about it.

 

[m_stodd]

A few things to do and not do when getting reimbursed for ingredients:

1) Don't talk about it online. It's stupid for a couple of reasons. It increases your odds of being caught. Also, who gets advice on moral and legal reasoning from a bunch of strangers on the internet.
2) Only get reimbursed for the cost if the ingredients.
3) Keep receipts so you can show that you were only reimbursed for ingredients.

Or, better yet, just do it for free and have your friend buy you dinner or provide a service with a skill set that you don't possess.

In the eyes of the government, this is still as illegal as selling it for cash. If you're 'doing it for free' and expecting dinner or services in return, you're still selling it. The government views bartering (exchanging goods/services for goods/services) the same as exchanging goods/services for cash, so I don't see how it's better than selling it for cash.

 

[downtown3641]

In the eyes of the government, this is still as illegal as selling it for cash. If you're 'doing it for free' and expecting dinner or services in return, you're still selling it. The government views bartering (exchanging goods/services for goods/services) the same as exchanging goods/services for cash, so I don't see how it's better than selling it for cash.

But, unless you're being monitored when you're working out the deal, what evidence is there of any sort of exchange? Since there's no risk, why not pursue this avenue of reciprocity?

 

[brewguyver]

I do think it is funny that people think that HBT is monitored by any gov't agency. They have much more important issues to deal with than some guy taking money from friends for some homebrew. Just not worth their time as evidenced by the total lack of fines/citations/arrests in the 30+ years of legal homebrewing. That being said....it is still illegal.

I find that this stuff comes up only with something related. Kid breaks into your house, steals some booze - you confront the parents and they say "you call the police and we'll tell them you're illegally selling beer." Moral high ground is a slippery surface.

 

[Obliviousbrew]

When I look al the beers that I can´t try I´m sad I´m not in the States, when I finally find a thread like this I´m happy, I have a lot of friends (even more since I brew) my friends can drop by at any time and take a few beers with them, I have a tip jar where I store my beer, that´s for buying ingredients, I never tougth of having problems with the law for this it´s almost impossible. And if a kid will break into my house and i get an answer like "you call the police and we'll tell them you're illegally selling beer." I know I can easily break that guys face and put his kid in a correctional... Ahhhhh it´s nice to live in a place were law suit don´t mean sh*t

 

[Phunhog]

In the eyes of the government, this is still as illegal as selling it for cash. If you're 'doing it for free' and expecting dinner or services in return, you're still selling it. The government views bartering (exchanging goods/services for goods/services) the same as exchanging goods/services for cash, so I don't see how it's better than selling it for cash.

You are probably technically right but how in the world would this be proven in a court of law? If a homebrewer gave someone some beer and the person reciprocated with something else (commercial beer, food, services, money) of their own free generosity ....how can that be considered a "sale" and not a gift? Obviously if you say IF I give you beer you MUST give me something in return that is a sale. It has been my experience that when you freely give away homebrewed beer people WANT to give you something in return. You can even say it considered common courtesy that when someone gives you a gift...you reciprocate at some point.

 

[progmac]

perhaps recommend a similar beer from a local craft brewery instead.

homebrewers are artisans, but not that type that can sell products at the craft fair.

my response -

'sorry, it is illegal for me to sell you or trade you homebrew for anything'

to these people in this thread who are brewing batches for friends for just the cost of ingredients...damn, y'all are nicer than me.

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

THIS!

Have him buy the ingredients, have him come over and help you brew, AND BOTTLE, and have him leave you a six pack for your time and effort, or a case. Or probably more up and up legally, both of you chip in for ingredients, have him come over and help you brew, have him come back to help you bottle, and then you keep your share and he takes his.

When friends want my homebrew they either come over and drink some with me or come over and MAKE some with me.

Good excuse to brew on Sunday with friends, the football game, a few bears and fresh meat hot off the smoker.

 

[Homercidal]

I highly doubt any agency who works in this area even cares if a few homebrewers "sell" a few cases of beer to their friends, even if at a profit.

But the FACT is, it's still illegal.

Now, would I worry about it? No. The odds are just plain tiny.

Nobody here is going to come up with a foolproof method of exchanging anything with homebrew. It's all illegal.

But I bet you could come up with methods of not getting caught if you really thought hard about it.

For instance, I've given a few bottles of homebrew to a lady at the video store. I've also gotten free rentals from the video store. Coincidence? Oh yeah.

Trust me. Feds are looking for people selling hundreds of gallons of homebrew or more likely, distilled products. That isn't to say that they won't nail a homebrewer if the opportunity arises.

And lastly, selling homebrew gives homebrewers a bad name simply because it's still illegal (Canvas your lawmakers to start easing up on this!) Homebrewers having a bad name is the first step in the slide towards losing rights.

 

[Clonefan94]

Here's my take on all of this. Homebrewing is fun, I enjoy the process, that's a good 50% of the reason I do it. The other reason, is that I like Beer a lot and I like to share that beer with Friends. IMO, a great christmas present would be a six pack from a friend who brews their own beer. Homebrewing is truly a lobor of love. It seems odd to me that you would present a gift to someone, of home made nature, that you didn't produce yourself. It just seems cheapened in a way.

I've had friends give me homebrew as gifts before and weather or not it was any good was beside the point. They took time to make something and present it as a gift to me. AS a homebrewer myself, it's kind of a slap in the face to ask to be paid to brew beer for someone elses friend. Or if someone told me, "Hey, I have this homebrewer friend and I bought a six pack off of him for you as a gift." I'd think to myself, "Why didn't you just brew some up yourself?"

I don't know, just seems odd, kind of like paying your grandmother to bake a bunch of cookies so you could give them out as presents. It defeats the purpose of home made imo.

 

[Subsailor]

When friends want my homebrew they either come over and drink some with me or come over and MAKE some with me.

Good excuse to brew on Sunday with friends, the football game, a few bears and fresh meat hot off the smoker.

Most of our bears are hibernating, LOL.

 

[jungatheart]

During prohibition speakeasy kept cheap glasses near the bar. Nothing was ever charged for the drinks. When the clients left they smashed a glass and paid the bar tender for the broken glass.

 

[45_70sharps]

During prohibition speakeasy kept cheap glasses near the bar. Nothing was ever charged for the drinks. When the clients left they smashed a glass and paid the bar tender for the broken glass.

Hmm....... The very existence of the alcohol, let alone the drinking of it was against the law. Pretending not to pay for it wouldn't have helped much.

Besides, there were lots of these places and I'm sure being illegal and secret they each had their own rules.

 

[Lukeduke02]

A. $150 for 5 cases? Does this beer contain 24c gold flakes?

B. tell then to come over, swing by the homebrew shop, pick up this and this and this, and have a fun day learning to brew. Could you imagine how clean all of your equipment would be if you had 5 coworkers cleaning and helping during the brew day?!

My dad has a hard time taking more than a few bottles from me, because he knows how much money and energy I've put into brewing. So now, when he wants something specific we brew it together. I do 90% of it, and we have a few beers and a good time. We bottle 5 gallons and I keg 5 gallons and put it on tap. He takes the bottles home.

Personally, we're in the planning phase for a nano, but I have no interest in selling my home brew. Selling it is business, brewing at home is relaxing. Keep it that way.

30 bottles per case, finished beers come out to $0.80 to $1.25 per bottle,,, so avg $1, thus 30 beers x 5 cases x $1 = $150, glad I could help with the math problem of the day. That's excluding the price of replacing the bottle....

 

[tmoney645]

Sell them some bottle caps, removal not included. Sell them some yeast cultures. Sell them bottles, emptying and cleaning not included. Accept donations to your personal charity.

 

[snaps10]

30 bottles per case, finished beers come out to $0.80 to $1.25 per bottle,,, so avg $1, thus 30 beers x 5 cases x $1 = $150, glad I could help with the math problem of the day. That's excluding the price of replacing the bottle....

Ease up there man. Sorry.

I guess I'm just used to my process. I'm down around .23 a beer, including caps, and there is only one type of beer here that comes in 30 packs. Craft beer comes in 24 at the most, though most people consider a 12 pack to be a case. That's where I was thrown off.

Continue...

 

[Lukeduke02]

Ease up there man. Sorry.

I guess I'm just used to my process. I'm down around .23 a beer, including caps, and there is only one type of beer here that comes in 30 packs. Craft beer comes in 24 at the most, though most people consider a 12 pack to be a case. That's where I was thrown off.

Continue...

Lol, no worries... Hope I can get down to $.20 ish each... Maybe I'm making mine too fancy-like.

All's good.

 

[Phunhog]

Here's my take on all of this. Homebrewing is fun, I enjoy the process, that's a good 50% of the reason I do it. The other reason, is that I like Beer a lot and I like to share that beer with Friends. IMO, a great christmas present would be a six pack from a friend who brews their own beer. Homebrewing is truly a lobor of love. It seems odd to me that you would present a gift to someone, of home made nature, that you didn't produce yourself. It just seems cheapened in a way.

I've had friends give me homebrew as gifts before and weather or not it was any good was beside the point. They took time to make something and present it as a gift to me. AS a homebrewer myself, it's kind of a slap in the face to ask to be paid to brew beer for someone elses friend. Or if someone told me, "Hey, I have this homebrewer friend and I bought a six pack off of him for you as a gift." I'd think to myself, "Why didn't you just brew some up yourself?"

I don't know, just seems odd, kind of like paying your grandmother to bake a bunch of cookies so you could give them out as presents. It defeats the purpose of home made imo.

I am pretty much the same way...I love the process of brewing as much if not more than actually drinking the beer. That is why I don't mind brewing for others...close friends or otherwise. The more I give away the more I get to brew!! I don't think it is odd at all though to give someone a handmade gift that you didn't make. Look at all the Christmas boutiques run by little, old ladies. People love to get handmade gifts. Yes..it would be better if they actually made it themselves but just like I am not going to take up quilting many people aren't going to take up homebrewing.

 

[naiek]

From the AHA website for NC

"Chapter 18B, Article 3, §18B-306 permits an individual to make, possess, and transport native wines and malt beverages for his own use and for the use of his family and guests."

It's technically illegal to do it at all, even without compensation for ingredients

 

[Yooper]

This has been rehashed over and over.

In some states, it's even illegal for "homebrew" to be taken out of your "home". For example, in some states, you can't take homebrew to your campsite when out camping.

In some states, it's still illegal to homebrew.

Since we're talking about illegal activity ("charging for cups, ingredients, etc), and trying to work around it, then this thread will be closed.

Many people in the AHA have worked way too hard for making homebrewing legal in all states and we don't want to give the appearance of encouraging illegal behavior.