German Beer. Holy crap Batman.

[badmajon]

So, I live in England. The beer there is good (I'm American). It's good but reminds me alot of the beer I kinda 'grew up' drinking. Darkish ales. Real Ale is great, the hand pumped kind, unlike anything I've ever had in the states. It's all good. It's a good country for beer.

Then I went to Germany on a business trip, and I discovered German Beer. I can't explain how good it is. THERE IS LITERALLY A BREWERY MAKING FRESH BEER IN EVERY TOWN. I'm not even kidding or exaggerating. I'm in Bavaria right now. Take the train to Munich and you'll see field after field of hop farms with their long poles sticking up out of the ground.

I can't explain how fresh this stuff is. I think only us homebrewers, at least in the states, know what truly fresh beer tastes like. Now imagine that everywhere. Crystal clear, fresh, amazing. You'd think it just flowed out of the sink faucets here because it's everywhere. I got a 20x500ml crate for $20, and that came with a free glass.

They also have types we don't have, and at least down here they like wheat in their beers, but not that nasty over the top banana and bubble gum with orange bits and God knows what thrown in thing that we go for in the states when we talk about "wheat beer". Some of them are cloudy, some of them dark, light, some of them are crystal clear. The wheatiness is never over the top and you can just keep drinking them unlike so many American faux-German wheatbeers that I can only drink one of (shock top, blue moon, etc).

Anyway, if you can, and you love beer, you MUST go to Germany. Their level of beer culture here is unbelievable. Makes the Brits and us Americans seem like amateurs. Prost!

 

[passedpawn]

Sorry, sure the Germans innovated a bunch of the beer styles. But America is beer central. It's true.

 

[badmajon]

Sorry, sure the Germans innovated a bunch of the beer styles. But America is beer central. It's true.

I'm not really sure what you are debating here... sure there's some hipster towns here and there with a brewery on every corner, fresh microbrews served everywhere, etc.

...but America as in the common suburban mass that is everywhere (it seems), ask for a "beer" at a bar and you'll get bud light, not a fresh Dunkelweissen brewed across the street two weeks ago.

 

[AK7007]

I'm not really sure what you are debating here... sure there's some hipster towns here and there with a brewery on every corner, fresh microbrews served everywhere, etc.

...but America as in the common suburban mass that is everywhere (it seems), ask for a "beer" at a bar and you'll get bud light, not a fresh Dunkelweissen brewed across the street two weeks ago.

The peaks of greatness in America are higher, even if they are spread out.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Well, I haven't gotten to Germany yet, to drink those wonderful beers, but I'll tell you, in talking with a number of people that weren't raised in the states, American beers have a worldwide reputation for being watery. Now I'm sure that mostly refers to the top selling brands and not the plethora of craft brew, (which aren't all good) just saying nationalism for American beer may be a bit unfounded.
Prost!

 

[Magnus314]

Wait, you do know that Blue Moon and Shock Top are knock-offs of Belgian beer, NOT German, right?

 

[safcraft]

If you like Germany , wait till you spend some time in Belgium. I lived there for 1 year and totally fell in love with beer. You just need to like stronger beers 😀

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Interesting. I'm English, live in England, never been to Germany, visited Belgium in 1976 as a 15 year old, America in 1981.

I've always felt a bit disappointed by beer in England, it should be good, given the culture and the raw materials, but most beer you buy is dull IMO. I'm lucky now though to live in a part of Manchester that has stacks of bars selling craft beers from micro breweries which are often of a very good standard. English ales, American influenced ales, but increasingly now we get saisons and even some sours. I think fresh beer is widely available in England now, where do you live?

I've never been grabbed by the imported bottled German beer we get. Probably cos they don't really do hoppiness and also I like the English ale yeast effect. Maybe I should get over to Germany and see what their draught beers are like. I don't doubt the craftsmanship, just think the styles aren't what I go for. In England we have styles I like but they are mostly dumbed down for the lacklustre English palate and are often not that well made. A lot of micros use uninteresting dry yeasts. A typical English, lack of perfectionist kind of thing to do.

 

[evchenko]

Love Germany, but they are a little too stuck in the rigid Reinheitsgebot sometimes. I'm going back to Berlin again sometime next year to check out the new Stone facility and see how they are being received over there, but also to try and get a genuine Berliner Weisse served in its original city (probably a tough ask). I grew up in Germany in the 80s and that indoctrinated my Dad into drinking Pilsner, which filtered down to me and I've been a picky bugger ever since beer-wise, although I don't drink Pils so often these days.

Went to Berlin back during one of the European Championships (soccer, guys) and was drinking 1L steins of beautiful fresh Pils al fresco in one of the restaurants situated in a railway arch.

Serving your own fresh Pilsner Urquell in Prague (I know it's not Germany before anyone says) from a potentially never-ending faucet (digitally metered at your table) is also one of the highlights of my life.

Man I need to get back to the Continent. In case anyone wondered, I'm voting for us to stay in the EU!

 

[Hanglow]

That's because you went to Bavaria, especially Oberfranken for example has hundreds of great little, old, breweries. But not all germany is like that, there are large wastelands for beer too unfortunately.

As for british ales being dark, most are pale surely? I'd say 7/10 are the pale'n'hoppy style at least up here they are, and have been for quite a while. Also there are areas that are better than others, for example London was atrocious for beer until fairly recently despite it's previous long history with the likes of porter etc. It's true though that despite there being more breweries per head in the UK than any other country you still have to find good beer as most people still drink what we might call piss water. And a number of new breweries are somewhat crap, although I found that in the US last time I was there too, despite there being a (very!) large selection of craft beers a number were very shoddy.

 

[SvenF]

I'm from Germany and even though I have to admit that we probably have pretty great pilsner beers, unfortunately our brewery's seem to be stuck on that style.
They all claim Germany to be a great beer country, but honestly nobody really knows the greatness of a good IPA or Stout. It's all pilsner... and if it's not that crystal clear, super smooth, almost bland tasting stuff, for most people it's no real beer. That's such a shame...

Now like I said considering the style, our pilsners probably are pretty good, as is our standard of beer. You can get very cheep beers that will still be much much better than a bud light ;-). But I feel like the UK or the US has a much bigger variety in beers and like AK7007 said: The peaks of greatness in America are higher

 

[badmajon]

I'm from Germany and even though I have to admit that we probably have pretty great pilsner beers, unfortunately our brewery's seem to be stuck on that style.
They all claim Germany to be a great beer country, but honestly nobody really knows the greatness of a good IPA or Stout. It's all pilsner... and if it's not that crystal clear, super smooth, almost bland tasting stuff, for most people it's no real beer. That's such a shame...

Now like I said considering the style, our pilsners probably are pretty good, as is our standard of beer. You can get very cheep beers that will still be much much better than a bud light ;-). But I feel like the UK or the US has a much bigger variety in beers and like AK7007 said: The peaks of greatness in America are higher

Interesting you mention that- you are right in terms of variety I have noticed less. I think I am more impressed by the freshness and quality of the beers I have found, and the abundance of local breweries, than the size of the beer menu. I still think Germany is a must see for beer fans.

 

[McKnuckle]

It's a "grass is greener on the other side" phenomenon. I am fascinated by both traditional English and German beers. I imagine one would get bored by over-exposure to anything, so if you live in one of those places, perhaps you long for something like America's vibrant craft beer scene.

I long instead for English bitters, milds, porters, stouts, and German lager delights - so I'm focusing most of my home brewing on these styles. I enjoy a hopped-up American IPA or "crazy" oak-and-adjunct-laden stout as well, but a steady diet of those would be unsustainable for me.

I, too, would be waxing poetic about freshly brewed pilsners around every street corner. Not to mention the intriguing beer and social culture that comes along with indulging. Thanks for sharing your impressions.

 

[Knkbrand]

Well, I haven't gotten to Germany yet, to drink those wonderful beers, but I'll tell you, in talking with a number of people that weren't raised in the states, American beers have a worldwide reputation for being watery. Now I'm sure that mostly refers to the top selling brands and not the plethora of craft brew, (which aren't all good) just saying nationalism for American beer may be a bit unfounded.
Prost!

I was in the Military stationed in Germany, and we were training with the Brits and the Scots. The topic of beer came up, and one of the Scots said "man, I love American Beer!" I said "Really?" and he came back "yeah, its great driving beer!"

 

[Teromous]

The hardest part for me was realizing that no imported German beer (that I could get) tasted as good as it did in Germany. That and the fact that you can't bottle gemütlichkeit...

Enjoy the good stuff while you can! Prost!

 

[RustyHorn]

There are more breweries per head in England than anywhere in the world, so maybe you've been missing it somehow! Plus, if you drive through Kent you'll see many hop farms and oust houses.

 

[GHBWNY]

Spent 15 months in Germany back in the mid-1970s -- Northern Bavaria -- Furth/Nurnberg area. It's true that every tiny cobblestoned, red-tiled-roof village has its own brewery along with its own gasthaus in which to sit and have something to eat and drink. The gasthaus we would frequent was literally connected to the brewery several meters away via an underground pipeline. Talk about fresh! After coming back to the states, it took me over 30 years to find a beer that dared compare with those I had in Germany. At the time, a beer from Germany -- unless consumed within 90 days of brewing -- had to be pasteurized for export, which creates a HUGE difference in taste, making them generally a poor representation of the real thing. A couple years ago, the husband of a friend of my wife's gave me one of his "homemade beers". It was as close to anything I'd ever had on tap in Germany. End of one story, beginning of another...

 

[badmajon]

There are more breweries per head in England than anywhere in the world, so maybe you've been missing it somehow! Plus, if you drive through Kent you'll see many hop farms and oust houses.

Doesn't suprise me, there are some really good ones out in England. I live right next to Seven Sail Brewery in Heckington. Seeing their products in shops however, is a bit difficult. I think some of these places are run more as hobbies for wealthy retired persons than actually functional breweries with working distribution networks.

 

[RustyHorn]

As for british ales being dark, most are pale surely? I'd say 7/10 are the pale'n'hoppy style at least up here they are, and have been for quite a while.

I'd say it is varied. British styles, such as stout/porter pale ale, brown/mild, and weak to strong bitter cover a wide range of flavours and colours. I can get all of those at any supermarket. I think that's the beauty of British beer - variety.

 

[RustyHorn]

Doesn't suprise me, there are some really good ones out in England. I live right next to Seven Sail Brewery in Heckington. Seeing their products in shops however, is a bit difficult. I think some of these places are run more as hobbies for wealthy retired persons than actually functional breweries with working distribution networks.

They probably sell more in cask form.

 

[badmajon]

They probably sell more in cask form.

Ah, good point. Real Ale can only really be had in pubs, bottle it and the taste changes completely!

 

[TimmyWit]

After spending four years in England, and four years in Germany, I honestly wouldn't even put Germany in my top 3. I did my beer trips in Germany. I traveled to Cologne, Dusseldorf, and Bamberg to try Kolsch, Altbier, and Rauchbier. I certainly had my fill of Pils and Weizen. but when I wanted a real beercation, I always headed West; usually to Bruges. The cask ale & pub atmosphere in England was awesome. The American breweries are brewing all styles and brewing them well. Sure, it was a treat to visit Cantillon. But, now i live 20 minutes from Side Project and they are brewing some pretty amazing mixed culture stuff too. I expected a lot from Germany but i think a lot of the lure comes from what we see & hear about Oktoberfest.

I guess I would put Germany 4th for me after America, Belgium, and England. But, that's probably only because I haven't been to Australia.

 

[SvenF]

It's a "grass is greener on the other side" phenomenon. I am fascinated by both traditional English and German beers. I imagine one would get bored by over-exposure to anything, so if you live in one of those places, perhaps you long for something like America's vibrant craft beer scene.

That's probably exactly what it is! Can't agree more!

I long instead for English bitters, milds, porters, stouts, and German lager delights - so I'm focusing most of my home brewing on these styles. I enjoy a hopped-up American IPA or "crazy" oak-and-adjunct-laden stout as well, but a steady diet of those would be unsustainable for me.

It's really funny because my home brewing efforts are more directed towards the US craft beer styles... It's so hard to get these over here

It's one of the oldest human stories... you always want the most what you don't have!

 

[Kee]

If you like Germany , wait till you spend some time in Belgium. I lived there for 1 year and totally fell in love with beer. You just need to like stronger beers 😀

That's where I got introduced to what beer can be. But will a little luck now you can find great beers in unsuspected places.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Wait, you do know that Blue Moon and Shock Top are knock-offs of Belgian beer, NOT German, right?

Yes I know that.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Having lived a few places in Germany in the Last 25 years, I can say the experience varies quite a bit just like in the US. Where I initially lived in the Sauerland there was one brewery per town but the Pils they produced, though very tasty, were very similar. Since then Warsteiner has become an internationally distributed beer with more than one style but back then...not so much.

Dusseldorf and surrounding small towns had Alt (which I loved!) and Cologne had Kolsch (not a fan but nice on a warm day) so you did not have to go far to find a different regional variety.

Munich had a wide variety of beer styles but you did have to know where to look to get much more than a standard Helles or mass market Hefeweizen.

Rural Bavaria to the south near the Austria border was a treasure of various Monastery or former monastic breweries.

It has been more than 15 years since I lived there (though I still spend a few days any time I pass through Frankfurt) last but the brewery consolidation was FIERCE in the 1990's. Glad to hear is did not decimate the variety.

 

[JKaranka]

I like the atmosphere in German places but I miss bitterness in Bavaria. Everything is so smooth even my local bitter at 3.5% abv tastes bitter and hoppy afterwards.

 

[Spartan1979]

Spent 15 months in Germany back in the mid-1970s -- Northern Bavaria -- Furth/Nurnberg area. It's true that every tiny cobblestoned, red-tiled-roof village has its own brewery along with its own gasthaus in which to sit and have something to eat and drink. The gasthaus we would frequent was literally connected to the brewery several meters away via an underground pipeline. Talk about fresh! After coming back to the states, it took me over 30 years to find a beer that dared compare with those I had in Germany. At the time, a beer from Germany -- unless consumed within 90 days of brewing -- had to be pasteurized for export, which creates a HUGE difference in taste, making them generally a poor representation of the real thing. A couple years ago, the husband of a friend of my wife's gave me one of his "homemade beers". It was as close to anything I'd ever had on tap in Germany. End of one story, beginning of another...

I've been to Germany three times in the last five years. I now brew mostly Germann style beers. Right now my kegerator has German Pils, Altbier and Dunkel on tap.

 

[LBussy]

Germany is almost a culture of beer, where America is a culture of excesses which happens to embrace beer. If you have not lived in the American AND German culture as a beer drinker I don't think you can pass judgement on whether or not the OP is right or wrong. I lived there, I came back and learned to make beer because of that experience.

One thing to consider is that German beer is German beer. In America, nearly all of the recognized styles are American adaptations of the styles from other countries. As a result we have a wider variety than nearly any other country in the world but what we don't have is a place like Weihenstephan. You can get a pretty good pilsner in the US, but you can't experience sipping it fresh on a street corner in Pilsen. You can get a pretty good Ale, but try a hand pulled pint from your local Buffalo Wild Wings?! You can't buy culture and history.

 

[PlexVector]

I've been to Germany three times in the last five years. I now brew mostly Germann style beers. Right now my kegerator has German Pils, Altbier and Dunkel on tap.

You've convinced me to move a german style beer up on my to-brew list!

 

[AK7007]

You can't buy culture and history.

Some would say (me) you shouldn't bother with the culture and history. Some culture and history aren't as good tasting as the adaptation even! If its good beer, its good beer. If its good in your hometown, its going to be awesome because you can experience that all the time with friends, and that constitutes your very own beer culture!

If you have to be surrounded by the culture and history for something to taste good, then was it even that great tasting to begin with?

I would agree that the beauty of travel is in that culture and history. But that doesn't actually make the beer better. The best that I could see would be that travel gives you access to things that you could not get at home. (cask ale?)

 

[GHBWNY]

One thing to consider is that German beer is German beer. In America, nearly all of the recognized styles are American adaptations of the styles from other countries.

Amen to that. I STILL haven't found an American adaptation of a German style that compares. My first (U.S. Army) job when I got to Germany was in Bamberg. The day I arrived, they were celebrating their 1000-year anniversary of the founding of the city. I suspect that their beers are tastier (to my palate) because they've had *just a little more time* under their belt than we've had to perfect their craft.

 

[krackin]

Not as an excuse but a reason, US beer is a little behind the curve due to Prohibition, Great Depression then WW II. That isn't to say that the second two didn't affect other countries, that would be foolish. What it did do to the US was destroy small breweries as seen in other countries, thus styles and recipes, and in time replaced them with BMC.

 

[Yooper]

I used to live in Germany, and I learned to love beer. But our local gasthaus, across the street, had "Pilsner" and "Export". Both were excellent- but that was the beer menu.

Of course, that was 35 years ago............................

 

[RustyHorn]

In America, nearly all of the recognized styles are American adaptations of the styles from other countries.

I once put an English barley wine recipe from the 1800s into beersmith, but according to the bjcp guideline or whatever it's called, I was making an American barleywine! So, even these American styles are not really uniquely American. What American has done though is create some amazing hops. And I'm very grateful

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I used to live in Germany, and I learned to love beer. But our local gasthaus, across the street, had "Pilsner" and "Export". Both were excellent- but that was the beer menu.

Of course, that was 35 years ago............................

Mine was worse (1989-1990). Gasthaus A) Veltins (a pislner) and Gasthaus B) Warsteiner (a pilsner)....the second, third and fourth taps were the same as the first.

Next twelve Gasthauses...same story...Veltins or Warsteiner.

 

[iijakii]

I'm not really sure what you are debating here... sure there's some hipster towns here and there with a brewery on every corner, fresh microbrews served everywhere, etc.

...but America as in the common suburban mass that is everywhere (it seems), ask for a "beer" at a bar and you'll get bud light, not a fresh Dunkelweissen brewed across the street two weeks ago.

Well don't live in the boring midwest. There is umpteen times more variety in the US than Germany. I absolutely love Germany and German beers, but the majority of Germany is pretty much just one of the big 3 brands. Then you're lucky if they carry more than 3 of that brand's beers.

 

[gspot]

Yooper, Onkel_Udo, and iijaki pretty much echo my experience as well. I lived there for two years and have been back a few times since. While there is a nice variety in Germany across the nation, in any one locale you're not going to find very much more than the locally brewed beer. (That's not necessarily a bad thing--I adore German beer, and that's what I mostly brew.) In the U.S., it really depends on where you're at. In the larger metro areas or beer meccas, yes, the variety is much greater. But you have to admit, there's probably more locations in the US where all you can get is BMC. So maybe it's not that much different after all in terms of availability. I'd say that any German beer is better than BMC IMO.

I think we're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[BeardedBeerMan]

I'm reminded of an episode of Brew Dogs where they were in Brussels and made a beer completely against the Reinheitsgebot. They asked a local what they thought of American beer, their answer was "it's like having sex in a canoe, *bleep*ing close to water"

 

[ViciousFishes]

You've got to get to Kloster Andechs while in Munich. You will not be disappointed!!!