Hmm, I was under the impression that a good hot and cold break, as well as how quickly the wort can be chilled, have the biggest impact on chill haze formation. The BIAB part of my process doesn't really affect how aggressive my boil is, it's only a mash thing.
Gelatin and IPAs
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Hmm, I was under the impression that a good hot and cold break, as well as how quickly the wort can be chilled, have the biggest impact on chill haze formation. The BIAB part of my process doesn't really affect how aggressive my boil is, it's only a mash thing.
kombat
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MindenMan said:
A good hot break is the product of an aggressive boil. You don't get a "good" hot break from a wimpy boil.
Touché! I didn't think that correlation through. Welp, my boil is pretty aggressive, I get a fine hot break, and I am able to chill my wort from boiling to 60 degrees in 30 minutes. I use Whirlfloc and cold crash. Still get chill haze.
Captain Damage
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That's simply incorrect. Gelatin is produced by boiling bones in a mild acid for hours. It's exactly the same as what you see if you've ever made chicken soup from scratch - which requires hours of boiling - and noticed that it gets thick when cooled. The boiling extracts collagen from the bones, skin and connective tissue. Packaged collagen is called gelatin.
That said, boiling temperatures are not necessary to dissolve and pasteurize the gelatin powder for your beer. My point was simply that sweating about the temperature getting too high is one thing you don't need to worry about.
TyTanium
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There's a difference between a simmer and a boil, and the purpose of gelatin in stock is different than in beer. In beer we want surface area, and boiling makes larger clumps of molecules and less surface area, thus less clearing power. There's a reason all the sources you've read say not to boil it for use as a fining agent.
hoppyhoppyhippo
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I have to be 100% honest, I've never had a chill haze problem. Typically chill haze is caused by one of a few things. First you may not be getting a strong enough boil, a strong hour long rolling boil will help remove or breakup the proteins and the tannins that cause chill haze. Then it's equally important to chill your beer rapidly.
If you're doing either just enough boil to get by, or if you're taking too long to chill (I think Palmer says half an hour or less) you will have some issues with chill haze. You can add finings to it but I prefer to save my money and deal with some particulates that may be hanging around and having just a solidly clean looking beer.
If you're doing either just enough boil to get by, or if you're taking too long to chill (I think Palmer says half an hour or less) you will have some issues with chill haze. You can add finings to it but I prefer to save my money and deal with some particulates that may be hanging around and having just a solidly clean looking beer.
Well, I have no doubt I'm getting a strong rolling boil. Although I'm using an electric stove, my wort is split into two pots, and I have to keep the temperature below high in order to prevent the boil from leaping out of the pot.
As far as chilling goes, when it's recommended to chill in half an hour or less, to what temp is that referring? Below 100? Below 80? 70? I get to 60 in just about 30 minutes using an ice bath for each pot. So, if you need to be at 60 in 30 minutes, then I'm at the threshold. But as far as chilling to, say, 80, I don't have an exact time on that, but I would guess right around 15 min.
Regardless, in this case I've now moved on to the interesting fact that my IPA seems to have restarted fermentation after I dry hopped.
Before I dry hopped, I took two readings three days apart. Both were at 1.015. Took a reading four days after I dry hopped and it was down to 1.014. Noticed all week that there was a little activity going on in the carboy. Held off on cold crashing and took another reading yesterday morning. Down to 1.013.
Hm.
Going to take another reading tonight because I'd love to crash it tomorrow and bottle on thursday. Otherwise I won't have another chance to bottle until next Tuesday. Hesitant to leave it with the dry hops that long, it's already been 7 days today.
Before I dry hopped, I took two readings three days apart. Both were at 1.015. Took a reading four days after I dry hopped and it was down to 1.014. Noticed all week that there was a little activity going on in the carboy. Held off on cold crashing and took another reading yesterday morning. Down to 1.013.
Hm.
Going to take another reading tonight because I'd love to crash it tomorrow and bottle on thursday. Otherwise I won't have another chance to bottle until next Tuesday. Hesitant to leave it with the dry hops that long, it's already been 7 days today.
TyTanium
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You didn't boil the hops to sanitize? Infected & ruined. Kidding.
One possible explanation for "restarting fermentation" is simply the release of CO2. The fine particles of pellet hops act as nucleation sites and can cause fizzing & release of residual CO2. So if you didn't degas your first hydrometer sample, it's possible it was propped up a few points by the bubbles; so now, this new sample with reduced CO2 content reads lower.
I think you'll be just fine with your proposed schedule.
One possible explanation for "restarting fermentation" is simply the release of CO2. The fine particles of pellet hops act as nucleation sites and can cause fizzing & release of residual CO2. So if you didn't degas your first hydrometer sample, it's possible it was propped up a few points by the bubbles; so now, this new sample with reduced CO2 content reads lower.
I think you'll be just fine with your proposed schedule.
Interesting theory. I could accept that. That does make it tough to determine if I'm at FG after dry hopping, though. Maybe I'll take another reading as soon as I get home and then crash it and try to get in a bottle session tomorrow night. Is a 27 hour cold crash worth it?
Definitely do not want to risk bottle bombs. We have a unique living situation, as well as an 18 month old. Aside from the physical risk, I have a feeling that SWMBO might try to put an end to this hobby if that happens. No room to keg unfortunately.
"Going to take another reading tonight because I'd love to crash it tomorrow and bottle on thursday. Otherwise I won't have another chance to bottle until next Tuesday. Hesitant to leave it with the dry hops that long, it's already been 7 days today."
Do NOT bottle until the gravity stops dropping. If you didn't bag the hops, you can just rack to another fermenter and let it sit until you can confirm it has reached FG.
Do NOT bottle until the gravity stops dropping. If you didn't bag the hops, you can just rack to another fermenter and let it sit until you can confirm it has reached FG.
Strongly considering that. I've never racked to secondary. Is it advisable to cold crash first? Or is that a bad idea seeing as it may keep fermenting in secondary (if that is in fact what's happening, rather than it being a CO2 issue)?
WLP001. Fermented at 66 for 3 days, 68-70 the rest. Been in primary for 22 days.
thisisbeer
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I wouldn't cold crash you would stop a fermentation that could start back up later in the bottle. Just rack and let it finish out if it is fermenting again. It could be the CO2 like stated earlier but you wont know until the gravity stops changing. I would say leave it and see if it stops then cold crash or rack and then cold crash after it stops.
TyTanium
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22 days? No way it's not done unless it's infected. My concern with racking to secondary is oxygen - oxidized hops taste terrible. If it were me, I would cold crash tonight with gelatin, and bottle when I had a chance. But you have plenty of options to choose from.
PseudoChef
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Pretty much. I like that everyone wants to cite Heady as being cloudy but doesn't give mention to PtE, which is fined with gelatin at the brewpub.
Yes, it all comes down to personal preference. However, I do agree with what Ty said earlier on cutting down on some of the harsh hop profile (and likewise, the bitter yeast bite). I don't think clarity and taste should be separated, because the former should most certainly affect the latter. If you're pouring me a glass of yeast or one filled with murky-protein solution, chances are it's not going to be tasty. On the same page, however, it doesn't need to be crystal clear.
I agree!
There is a difference between a slight hops haze, or a bit of yeast sediment in the bottle, and a murky beer. I"ve been served some positively murky homebrews, and while they might taste ok to the brewer, I prefer them clear or with a slight hops haze!
Oh my god, too many options, haha. Ok, here's the plan.
Gravity tonight. If it hasn't dropped again, I'll cold crash, do gelatin tomorrow night, and bottle on thursday. That's the preferred plan!
If it's still dropping, I'll transfer to secondary and take another reading on thursday night. If it's stable, I'll cold crash until Sunday (going to be away from Friday to Sunday afternoon), do gelatin, and bottle on Tuesday.
Argh. Is this a common problem with dry hopping? From now on I'll be sure to degas all my samples. Is there a standard best way to do so?
Thanks again guys!
Gravity tonight. If it hasn't dropped again, I'll cold crash, do gelatin tomorrow night, and bottle on thursday. That's the preferred plan!
If it's still dropping, I'll transfer to secondary and take another reading on thursday night. If it's stable, I'll cold crash until Sunday (going to be away from Friday to Sunday afternoon), do gelatin, and bottle on Tuesday.
Argh. Is this a common problem with dry hopping? From now on I'll be sure to degas all my samples. Is there a standard best way to do so?
Thanks again guys!
TyTanium
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Huh. Well then maybe it is still dropping. That's odd.
Faaaaaaack me, lol
So does chill haze affect flavor or not? I've read conflicting views.
hoppyhoppyhippo
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By most accounts no, but what it may affect is mouthfeel. And you always taste with all your senses, so if something doesn't look good you're going to be prejudiced to it's flavor.
But some of the best beers I've had haven't looked good
This is Carton's 07747 a special beer dry hopped with Galaxy Hops
Not clear, extremely tasty.
Ok. Took a gravity. It's down to 1.012. All right. Transfer to secondary. Attach hop sack to siphon and pump it... where the hell are all these bubbles coming from?!
Yeah. Took me until the end to realize that the sack was probably pulled too tight against the siphon. I oxidized that baby like nobody's bidness.
So, how screwed is this? How long does it take oxidized flavors to show up? If it all gets drunk four or five weeks from now, will it be alright? (this is assuming it's not infected. Still have to get a stable reading.)
Oy.
Yeah. Took me until the end to realize that the sack was probably pulled too tight against the siphon. I oxidized that baby like nobody's bidness.
So, how screwed is this? How long does it take oxidized flavors to show up? If it all gets drunk four or five weeks from now, will it be alright? (this is assuming it's not infected. Still have to get a stable reading.)
Oy.
thisisbeer
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It is really easy to oxidize IPA's. Vinnie with Russian River goes as far to say to flush carboys and kegs with CO2 and anything else you move your IPA to. I don't know how big a difference it makes to do that. But I do know that when I started using a stainless steel dry hopper in the keg it made a noticeable difference in aroma. After I put the hops in I can flush with CO2 and I believe it made a difference. So I would think you oxidized it pretty good.
PseudoChef
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It all depends on how bad it is.
m3n00b
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Drink it fast. Drink it fresh. Bottled my last IIPA 2 weeks ago and almost done with a case.
