Gelatin and IPAs

[Cider123]

I once started a thread about liking cloudy beer. That the appearance of cloudiness gave me an impression of richness or substance. Perhaps due to my love for wheats and hefe's. I just used gelatin for the first time on a bitter and it came out crystal clear and tasted very nice. I was so proud of the crystal clarity, I started showing it off to anyone that came by for a beer. I thought it wouldn't matter to me, but it did. I will be using gelatin on top of whirlfloc and cold crashing for now on, at least with beers that are not meant to be cloudy like hefe's. I like clear beer!

The discussion on flavor stripping by gelatin just seems like the starts of another unsubstantiated rumor or old wives tale that clutters up the hobby. Maybe if some real experimentation is done, it may begin to convince me.

 

[TyTanium]

What was your rationale for racking it? Why not just leave it? I've noticed oxidized hops within a week or two.

It all depends on how bad it is.

Agreed. A slight chill haze or hop haze doesn't seem to taste any different than a bright beer to me. But I've had some murky hoppy beers that have been harsh and awful. That never aged out.

 

[progmac]

The discussion on flavor stripping by gelatin just seems like the starts of another unsubstantiated rumor or old wives tale that clutters up the hobby. Maybe if some real experimentation is done, it may begin to convince me.

Split a batch with a friend, one gelatin, one not. There is a difference.

 

[freisste]

Split a batch with a friend, one gelatin, one not. There is a difference.

Between two beers of equal clarity, one which used gelatin and one that was just cold crashed?

Because if the difference is just more suspended yeast, that can be cold crashed out. I'm not saying there is no difference, but it is hard for me to believe and I have not seen it.

 

[TyTanium]

Between two beers of equal clarity, one which used gelatin and one that was just cold crashed?

Because if the difference is just more suspended yeast, that can be cold crashed out. I'm not saying there is no difference, but it is hard for me to believe and I have not seen it.

In my experience, yes. Gel strips some of the harsher hop flavors and leaves a more pleasant hop character to me. I feel like a dead horse here.

This is one of those things you just have to try and decide what you like. If you bottle you can do a split comparison super easy - add half of the gel halfway through bottling; so half you batch gets it, half doesn't. See what you like. I'm sold on gel for hoppy beers, doesn't mean you will be.

 

[progmac]

Between two beers of equal clarity

well, no. the gelatin beer is more clear. isn't that the point of using it?

ty is right though, you have to set up experiments for yourself where you are comfortable with the experiment design. a gelatin experiment is fairly trivial, just decant a gallon, use some gel, and compare it to the control

i meant to provide more detail in my post above, but HBT was wigging out on me. there were some confounding issues and it wasn't a great experiment, but it has me at least preliminarily open to the idea that gelatin strips aroma to some degree.

 

[Ilan34]

What was your rationale for racking it? Why not just leave it? I've noticed oxidized hops within a week or two.

Well, to be honest, I received some very upsetting news recently and may not have thought this through to the best of my ability. My rationale was to get it off the dry hops. I thought I could do it without oxidizing, but I made a dumb mistake with the hop bag. It wasn't my first time siphoning with a hop bag, but I guess I was just rushing and had a brain fart.

If I'd happened to be racking to the bottling bucket instead of secondary, it would have still oxidized, so I can take solace in that I suppose.

 

[TyTanium]

Well, to be honest, I received some very upsetting news recently and may not have thought this through to the best of my ability. My rationale was to get it off the dry hops. I thought I could do it without oxidizing, but I made a dumb mistake with the hop bag. It wasn't my first time siphoning with a hop bag, but I guess I was just rushing and had a brain fart.

If I'd happened to be racking to the bottling bucket instead of secondary, it would have still oxidized, so I can take solace in that I suppose.

Sorry to hear that. Brewing is continual learning. So don't beat yourself up. RDWHAHB. The points we've been discussing are for navigating between good beer and great beer, so you'll likely still have good beer. It's pretty hard to ruin a beer. And you learned some stuff for next time to make it a little better.

 

[Ilan34]

Sorry to hear that. Brewing is continual learning. So don't beat yourself up. RDWHAHB. The points we've been discussing are for navigating between good beer and great beer, so you'll likely still have good beer. It's pretty hard to ruin a beer. And you learned some stuff for next time to make it a little better.

Thank you, that's truly a nice response. This forum is the best. Thanks for all the advice, I'll keep the thread updated with how it turns out. Life can definitely put things in perspective - it's just beer.

 

[Ilan34]

Quick update: Gravity reading finally stable last night at 1.012. Cold crashing tonight, gelatin on Sunday, bottling on Tuesday. Might keep them in a box to protect against potential bottle bombs. Going to try it young, maybe only after two weeks in the bottle. Hope to avoid the oxidized flavors from taking hold.

I'm a little worried about it being carbed up that early, especially after adding gelatin. Would you guys suggest adding yeast to the bottling bucket?

 

[TyTanium]

I'm a little worried about it being carbed up that early, especially after adding gelatin. Would you guys suggest adding yeast to the bottling bucket?

Nope. Mine are usually carbed after a few days even with gelatin.

 

[Ilan34]

Nope. Mine are usually carbed after a few days even with gelatin.

Even for a 7% + abv? This one wound up at 7.2%.

 

[TyTanium]

I've never experienced it taking much longer with bigger beers.

 

[Ilan34]

Bottled tonight. Carbed to 2.5 volumes. Still had a massive fresh hop aroma in the bottling bucket, even after the gelatin. Beer is extremely clear, we'll see how it deals with the chill haze. Gonna put a couple in the fridge in two weeks. I didn't add any extra yeast, I hope this baby carbs up quickly!

 

[Ilan34]

Opened up a bottle of the IPA last night. It'd been conditioning for 15 days and then 3 days in the fridge. There was a small pfft when I opened it but it's got very little carbonation so far. On the other hand, it tasted amazing and I'm pretty sure that it will be my best beer yet when it carbs up!

However, I'm worried about the coming oxidation taste. How long until oxidized flavors show up, assuming the bottles are stored at about 68 degrees? I'm hoping that it carbs up before it goes to ****!

 

[MindenMan]

In my first year and a half of brewing, I made some incredible technical mistakes. Some of them obvious like gushers, some over flavored at bottling. In the following year and a half, (3 years total)
I have never had the oxidized "cardboard" flavor that I have tasted, but it could have been there. I guess my point is, try not to worry about something that may not happen. I still do stupid shi*, like swap the aroma hops for the bittering hops, not have enough ice on hand for cooling... I do hope you have no off flavors in your beer.

 

[Ilan34]

Another update. At four weeks in the bottle, it was mostly carbed up and tasted incredible. Definitely got exactly what I was looking for when I brewed it. Very possibly my favorite batch yet.

I was able to share it with three people. Went through 11 bottles. I had one last night and it was a totally different beer. All the good hop aroma and flavor had disappeared. The taste was very medicinal, bitter in a bad way and stale. I could only drink half. This had been in the bottle for five weeks and a day, and it'd been just over six weeks since I accidentally oxidized the hell out of it.

So I guess I have my answer as to how long it takes. Disappointed that I didn't drink it more quickly, but not surprised. Lesson learned!

 

[Ilan34]

Oh yeah, and the gelatin didn't clear it up all that much. Maybe my process is faulty?

I cold crash for a day at 36 degrees. Then I sanitize a glass container, add pre-boiled and cooled water (half a cup), stir in half a packet of Knox, and microwave it until it's between 150-160. Stir again, add to beer, and keep at 36 degrees for another 48 hours before bottling.

 

[TyTanium]

Oh yeah, and the gelatin didn't clear it up all that much. Maybe my process is faulty?

I cold crash for a day at 36 degrees. Then I sanitize a glass container, add pre-boiled and cooled water (half a cup), stir in half a packet of Knox, and microwave it until it's between 150-160. Stir again, add to beer, and keep at 36 degrees for another 48 hours before bottling.

Process sounds fine. Gelatin doesn't clear everything.

 

[RmikeVT]

Oh yeah, and the gelatin didn't clear it up all that much. Maybe my process is faulty?

I cold crash for a day at 36 degrees. Then I sanitize a glass container, add pre-boiled and cooled water (half a cup), stir in half a packet of Knox, and microwave it until it's between 150-160. Stir again, add to beer, and keep at 36 degrees for another 48 hours before bottling.

Dry hopping adds a lot of haze, known as hop haze. Whenever I make dipa and ipa that are heavily dry hopped, or even apa's that are dry hopped I always get a bit of haze, even with I use gelatin which I use on almost all my beers.

 

[RmikeVT]

I also wanted to add to add my observation about gelatin to the conversation. I look at gelatin is another tool in the home brew toolbox that has its specific uses and I use to yield specific results such as:

1) Brewing For Other. If I am brewing a beer for visiting in-laws, a party or for people who might be skittish around home brew I tend to want my beer to look as close to possible as something they would buy commercially. I love when someone doesn't know I home brew and walks up to me at a party and asks what king of beer I'm serving and are shocked when I tell them they are drinking home brew (I do leave out the fact they will be farting up a storm in about 2 hours).

2) Fast Turn Around Beer. I love the fact that I can take a 1.055ish american pale ale with US-05/wlp001/1056 from grain to glass in 14ish days using gelatin. US-05 drops out great given enough time, but I find 2-3 weeks isn't enough. Add gelatin to the cold kegged beer and the yeast drops right to the bottom in 24-48 hours.

3) Lack of Dedicated Cold Crash Box. If I had a dedicated cold crash chamber I wouldn't need gelatin except for fast turnaround beers.

On the point of gelatin stripping flavor and aroma the jury is out for me. I do think that gelatin changes the profile of the beer, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives by a long shot, in my system. Although, it changes the profile and maybe you get two slightly different beers, I'm under the opinion that if it was great beer to start with it will still be great beer after the addition of gelatin with the possibility of a slightly different profile. So, side by side maybe you could tell a difference between the two, but would one be better than the other? Or would you just have two slightly different beers? I have built my house pale around using gelatin every time. If it needs more body I increase the mash temp, if it needs more hoppy flavor I increase the hop schedule, etc.

So, all things the same, yea maybe gelatin strips a beer a bit, but if you build your recipe around using gelatin every time and adjusting to your taste buds and olfactory receptors than it shouldn't matter.