Foamy IPA

[thebigbrewbowski]

Been brewing for a year, kegging for a few months. Last beer on same tap with 10 foot lines was an EPA that poured perfectly. The beer before that was an amber wheat ale and was excessively foamy. I currently have an IPA I dry hopped and its by far the foamiest beer even after I pour 1 its still almost pure foam. Dialed down pressure to 5psi its half foam. Turn it up to 10-14 psi pure foam. My fridge temp is 37 degrees. All grain 5g batches in brewzilla.

Am I missing something do you all think. Any articles or something I should be researching? I just dont get how 1 style pours completely different, is it the extra protein in the IPA or the hops?

Any help and criticism appreciated.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

Forgot to add that I force carb at 30psi for 20min and I dont believe this beer is overcarbed. All my beers are carbed this way so doesn't make sense some pour good some dont on the same setup.

Also to add the keg has sat for 48hrs since carbonation and still foamy.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

tough crowd..ok moving on lol

 

[marc1]

Was the beer more carbonated to begin with? If you're performing the exact same process, that seems like it could be an issue.

Although, I don't really understand your comment about carbing at 30 PSI for 20 minutes. That wouldn't put much CO2 into solution. Was is chilled fist?

If I was carbing a flat beer I might put it on 30PSI for 24-36 hours while it chilled and then drop to serving pressure. That would get it close, and could get the rest of the way there over the next few days.

When you are dropping pressure, are you venting the headspace so that the pressure on the beer is actually what the regulator is set to?

Also, what is the ID of your line?

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

ID looks like 1/4 inch but not too sure. I force carb by rocking it for 20 mins and the beer is chilled at that point . I just dont know if different carbonation methods would make that much of a difference either force carbonation or let it sit on the gas for a few days at pressure. I turned the pressure way down and it helped but I dont want to loose carbonation over time. Yes when I turn down to serving pressure I release the pressure.

 

[Jag75]

What's worked every time for me is 30psi for 36 hours , then 12 psi for 36 hrs .

 

[DannyBoy270]

Doesn't make a ton of sense that the issue varies from one style to another, but any chance temperature is a factor? I know you said fridge temp is 37, but if its coming out the faucet warmer for some reason that could be part of the problem

 

[Sammy86]

Style doesn't matter...my guess is a temp issue coming out...what type of faucet are you using and how are you keeping the lines cold?

 

[WesBrew]

How long has it been in the keg? Connections backwards? Diptubes mixed up?
Doesn’t sound like you over carbonated the beer. Should be under carbonated if anything. Take note of changes in the beer over the next weeks. Does it keep getting drier? Is it getting a little harsh? If so might be a sanitation issue/wild yeast problem

 

[WesBrew]

If it was just somehow over carbed by you, maybe problem with regulator… you can blow it out, but it’s messy
Turn reg up to 20. Set the offending keg in a tub bin or bucket to catch beer that is going to stream out. Take both lines off. Push the gas line onto the liquid post and hold it there while simultaneously pulling open the relief valve on top. Might take a minute but will blow all the carbonation out of solution. Then u can start over

 

[seatazzz]

I would take a look at the o-ring on the dip tube; when it starts to deteriorate you can get some foamy beers. On my kegs, for some reason that little tiny o-ring goes out faster than any of the others. Fortunately o-ring kits are cheap. The other issue I've had is slightly loosened posts, however if this was your issue you'd be losing co2 pretty fast.

 

[doug293cz]

ID looks like 1/4 inch but not too sure. I force carb by rocking it for 20 mins and the beer is chilled at that point . I just dont know if different carbonation methods would make that much of a difference either force carbonation or let it sit on the gas for a few days at pressure. I turned the pressure way down and it helped but I dont want to loose carbonation over time. Yes when I turn down to serving pressure I release the pressure.

1/4" ID beer line is too big, and should never be used unless you have extremely long runs required. The normal is 3/16" ID, and for that you need about 1 ft of tube for each psi of pressure (assuming your carb level is at equilibrium with the storage/serving pressure.) This is for standard vinyl tubing. For more accuracy, use this calculator. For better protection from oxygen ingress thru the tubing walls, switch to EVA barrier tubing. EVA tubing has the advantage of smaller ID (4mm / 0.157"), which means you can use shorter lines.

Rocking, rolling, shaking, etc. kegs at pressures above the chart pressure for the current beer temp, and desired carb level, is an inherently uncontrollable process (you are not likely to get the same results every time, even if you agitate for the same time.) It is the easiest way to over carbonate a keg. If you want to do accelerated forced carbonation, use the high pressure for fixed time (typically 36 hr @ 30 psi or 24 hr @ 40 psi) method, and then drop the pressure back to the chart value. This is a much more repeatable process.

If your IPA has hop particles suspended in it, this could be the cause of your problem. The hop particles act as nucleation sites for bubbles, and lots of nucleation sites means lots of bubbles. Cold storage time will allow any hop particles to settle out.

Replacing the beer dip tube "O" ring might also solve the problem (if it is damaged), as mentioned in a previous post.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

Agree with everything above. Stop shaking or rolling the keg with pressure at 3x the chart pressure. You can either leave it at 30psi overnight (not agitated) or do your shake and roll method at 12psi. You're most likely overcarbed by a full volume. Keep the gas off now and just keep pulling the vent for a couple hours.

Replace your serving line with either 10 feet of 3/16" ID (5mm) or use 5.5 feet of 4mm ID EVAbarrier.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

lol I am impatient itll be hard to stop rolling the keg BUT I will try.

I think the hops particles could be part of it, I used a hop bag and now after a few days it seems less foamy, probably due to it falling out of suspension. So this seems to be one of the culprits but probably I have multiple issues to check out.

Thanks for the above feedback, Ill look into the o ring and check actual ID of the line. Appreciate all the responses!

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

Agree with everything above. Stop shaking or rolling the keg with pressure at 3x the chart pressure. You can either leave it at 30psi overnight (not agitated) or do your shake and roll method at 12psi. You're most likely overcarbed by a full volume. Keep the gas off now and just keep pulling the vent for a couple hours.

Replace your serving line with either 10 feet of 3/16" ID (5mm) or use 5.5 feet of 4mm ID EVAbarrier.

If its over carbed how can you tell besides the foam? Just thinking now that I assumed I would be able to tell using the mouth feel of the carbonation level but now Im not soo sure and possibly it was over carbed and silly me isn't realizing it.

I guess I just need to be more specific about my beer making and follow the proven methods. I know better than that coming from a scientific background and ought change my ways but sometimes I just need beer immediately lol

 

[TheMadKing]

If its over carbed how can you tell besides the foam? Just thinking now that I assumed I would be able to tell using the mouth feel of the carbonation level but now Im not soo sure and possibly it was over carbed and silly me isn't realizing it.

I guess I just need to be more specific about my beer making and follow the proven methods. I know better than that coming from a scientific background and ought change my ways but sometimes I just need beer immediately lol

I think this will work, but never tried it..

-Bleed the keg pressure to almost zero, just keep enough to keep it sealed
-Turn off your CO2 tank
-Disconnect your gas
-empty the pressure in your gas line so that your regulator reads zero
-shake the bajesus out of your keg
-hook the gas line back up but leave the tank off. The serving pressure should show some value
-let it sit for a few hours for the pressure to equilibrate
-read the pressure on your regulator
-find that pressure on the carbonation chart at 37F

That should tell you almost exactly how many volumes you have

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

I think this will work, but never tried it..

-Bleed the keg pressure to almost zero, just keep enough to keep it sealed
-Turn off your CO2 tank
-Disconnect your gas
-empty the pressure in your gas line so that your regulator reads zero
-shake the bajesus out of your keg
-hook the gas line back up but leave the tank off. The serving pressure should show some value
-let it sit for a few hours for the pressure to equilibrate
-read the pressure on your regulator
-find that pressure on the carbonation chart at 37F

That should tell you almost exactly how many volumes you have

Good idea!

 

[DuncB]

You actually don't mention the pressure the keg is at just the pressure you set your regulator too. Knowing the beer and keg pressure helps you to know if overcarbed, I like this carbonation calculator Beer Carbonation Calculator

Bear in mind if you did have quarter inch beer line and the beer was at 10 psi you'd need 107 foot of line and if at 5 psi 49 foot of line.
This calculator helps with beer line length Determining Proper hose length for your Kegerator
But I think you'd have had a lot of problems before if your line was a quarter inch.
So many possibilities but commonly foaming is a result of pressure imbalance between keg and the outside world, it doesn't foam until you let it out.
Dirty lines can also contribute to foaming, ongoing ferment due to the diastase in hops can make some more fermentable sugars as well as the myriad of nucleation sites already mentioned ( think mintoe in a coke bottle ). Your timeframe seems to short for diastase effect though.

Get it as cold as you can and slowly bleed the pressure off without stirring up the hops , it'll take a bit of time but if you vent hard and early it will stir up settled yeast, hops and aggravate the process.

Finally get a nice jug pour some foam let it settle and then put it in a glass, if it's cloudy from hops use a tankard. Taking beer out will help to get the gas out as well and keep monitoring the pressure related to the carbonation calculator.

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

You actually don't mention the pressure the keg is at just the pressure you set your regulator too.

Bear in mind if you did have quarter inch beer line and the beer was at 10 psi you'd need 107 foot of line and if at 5 psi 49 foot of line.
This calculator helps with beer line length Determining Proper hose length for your Kegerator
But I think you'd have had a lot of problems before if your line was a quarter inch.
So many possibilities but commonly foaming is a result of pressure imbalance between keg and the outside world, it doesn't foam until you let it out.
Dirty lines can also contribute to foaming, ongoing ferment due to the diastase in hops can make some more fermentable sugars as well as the myriad of nucleation sites already mentioned ( think mintoe in a coke bottle ). Your timeframe seems to short for diastase effect though.

Get it as cold as you can and slowly bleed the pressure off without stirring up the hops , it'll take a bit of time but if you vent hard and early it will stir up settled yeast, hops and aggravate the process.

Finally get a nice jug pour some foam let it settle and then put it in a glass, if it's cloudy from hops use a tankard. Taking beer out will help to get the gas out as well and keep monitoring the pressure related to the carbonation calculator.

Thanks Dunc, Ive used that calculator but just assumed the ID of the hose I have a micrometer I can measure to be certain. After reading all this I dont believe its 1/4 inch definitely smaller. Just some more reading and understanding carbonation levels are needed. Thanks for pushing me in the right direction.

 

[DuncB]

I only started kegging this year and it's been a learning process that's for sure.
Realised I was making good beer served badly from a keg at the wrong temp, too much or little condition, overall a bit of a waste so now I'm serving well.
Certainly your line wont be 1/4 internal if it's less than or equal to that externally with the micrometer.
I've used the kegland EVA barrier tubing for gas and liquid throughout my build in 4mm internal diameter it's very user friendly especially with the duotight or other push in fittings, I understand they are bringing out a 3 mm internal line which I expect we'll get down here before you in the North. That will allow very short beer lines.
Someone will be able to probably identify the line with a picture and the external diameter.

 

[J2W2]

If your IPA has hop particles suspended in it, this could be the cause of your problem. The hop particles act as nucleation sites for bubbles, and lots of nucleation sites means lots of bubbles. Cold storage time will allow any hop particles to settle out.

I have a double IPA that has two dry hop additions in the secondary. I carb it set-it-and-forget-it, just like my other beers, and yet I always seem to have foam issues with it for a few weeks; then it behaves great. The beer always looks crystal clear from the first pour, but I suppose it could have very small particles in suspension. I dry hop in a Big Mouth Bubbler with a Depth Charge (stainless steel filter with 300 micron mesh), but I still get a lot of "hop sludge" in the bottom of the fermenter. I guess that's why those first few pours taste so great!

 

[thebigbrewbowski]

I have a double IPA that has two dry hop additions in the secondary. I carb it set-it-and-forget-it, just like my other beers, and yet I always seem to have foam issues with it for a few weeks; then it behaves great. The beer always looks crystal clear from the first pour, but I suppose it could have very small particles in suspension. I dry hop in a Big Mouth Bubbler with a Depth Charge (stainless steel filter with 300 micron mesh), but I still get a lot of "hop sludge" in the bottom of the fermenter. I guess that's why those first few pours taste so great!

You got to work on drinking that quicker! I wish my beers lasted a few week lol

 

[J2W2]

You got to work on drinking that quicker! I wish my beers lasted a few week lol

Yeah, it's a problem, but I run five kegs at a time, and if I drank them all that fast...