Brewfather app and final beer color - never accurate

[Architect-Dave]

So, I have been using the Brewfather app for over a year and a half. I have pushed out about 20 recipes from it. None of them, with the exception of stouts and porters, were accurately matching the SRM that the Brewfather app showed. I know that it is an estimate, but beers that say are doing out at SRM 5 or 6 are more like SRM 20. My Kolsch and Cream Ales are more along the darker side. My Oktoberfest beers are more like Irish Reds. You get the point. I use the Anvil 10.5 for my all grain batches and a Norther Brewer pot for my extract recipes. I understand the extract recipes are more variable in color because of the LME getting darker during the boil. I input all the grains into the software and get as accurate as I can in all the variable inputs. Is anyone else seeing this as well? Is there some setting I am missing?

 

[Zadkiel]

I get the exact opposite at the higher end, I made a quad that BF said would be 60 EBC but came out about 36, and a dubbel it said would be 56 EBC but is more like 34. A steam beer of a more medium colour was close (predicted 18EBC vs about 16 reality) I've learned to completely ignore it for darker beers, makes sense it would be off in the other direction for lighter ones.

 

[Architect-Dave]

I get the exact opposite at the higher end, I made a quad that BF said would be 60 EBC but came out about 36, and a dubbel it said would be 56 EBC but is more like 34. A steam beer of a more medium colour was close (predicted 18EBC vs about 16 reality) I've learned to completely ignore it for darker beers, makes sense it would be off in the other direction for lighter ones.

I should say that I made a Belgian Quadrupel and it did come out lighter than the app showed. I find this the same when I input premade recipe kits as well. The SRM for the kits is way off the SRM in the app. The kit seems to be the right color, though. So, there has to be something I am doing wrong in the app that is preventing accurate color calculations.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, I brew in rare occasion with LME (curious about specific products) and am able to predict color (customized approach) when the LME is fresh.

So, there has to be something I am doing wrong in the app that is preventing accurate color calculations.

Possible, but the most likely source is LME that has darkened before being used.

I understand the extract recipes are more variable in color because of the LME getting darker during the boil.

All wort gets (slightly) darker during a the boil. Basic Brewing Radio Aug 25 2005 / Nov 17 2005 has the number.

For some brands of LME and DME, the product information sheet for the specific style will have a range of L, based on wort SG. Saying that 'golden light' LME is 4 L is incomplete information.

beers that say are doing out at SRM 5 or 6 are more like SRM 20.

LME changes color quickly when not stored cool and used promptly. There is a technique for measuring 'extract' (LME or DME) color that is described in BYO's Big Book of Home Brewing (1e, 2017; 2e 2022) and Home Brew Recipe Bible (Colby, 2016) - so it's probably in BYO magazine from the 2013-2016 timeframe.

So three primary considerations.

There are some additional considerations (e.g. LME can stratify in the boil kettle).

 

[Architect-Dave]

FWIW, I brew in rare occasion with LME (curious about specific products) and am able to predict color (customized approach) when the LME is fresh.


Possible, but the most likely source is LME that has darkened before being used.


All wort gets (slightly) darker during a the boil. Basic Brewing Radio Aug 25 2005 / Nov 17 2005 has the number.

For some brands of LME and DME, the product information sheet for the specific style will have a range of L, based on wort SG. Saying that 'golden light' LME is 4 L is incomplete information.


LME changes color quickly when not stored cool and used promptly. There is a technique for measuring 'extract' (LME or DME) color that is described in BYO's Big Book of Home Brewing (1e, 2017; 2e 2022) and Home Brew Recipe Bible (Colby, 2016) - so it's probably in BYO magazine from the 2013-2016 timeframe.

So three primary considerations.

There are some additional considerations (e.g. LME can stratify in the boil kettle).

But it is not just with LME. I understand the darkening of the wort when using extracts. But, my concern is that the Brewfather app is consistently inaccurate with all grain recipes.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

But, my concern is that the Brewfather app is consistently inaccurate with all grain recipes.

Then post some examples of all grain recipes.

I understand the extract recipes are more variable in color because of the LME getting darker during the boil.

This understanding is incomplete (see my previous post).

With the information I mentioned in #4, I am able to use one of the classic SRM estimation algorithms and estimate 'extract' color within the limits of the algorithm.

 

[Architect-Dave]

Then post some examples of all grain recipes.


This understanding is incomplete (see my previous post).

With the information I mentioned in #4, I am able to use one of the classic SRM estimation algorithms and estimate 'extract' color within the limits of the algorithm.

Are these algorithms Brewfather algorithms?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Are these algorithms Brewfather algorithms?

I don't know.

 

[Architect-Dave]

I don't know.

Okay. Thanks. My original question, and basis of this thread, is specifically tied to the Brewfather app.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So Brewfather app support may be another good starting point for resolving this problem.

In either case, a good next step would be to provide information on specific all-grain batches where the estimated and actual color was noticeably different.

eta: BTW, I've casually used BeerSmith, Brewers Friend, and BrewFather enough to have confidence in their estimation techniques. Beyond that, I haven't had a need to compare the apps side by side.