Foamy beer

[FlyBoyAndy]

We are make large batches at about 20 gallons and we are filling a sanke keg. We remove the ring, remove the spear and sanitize it and then fill. We have been adding sugar to carbonate.

The draft system that is used is is a 70 - 80 foot run with a gylcol pack. The pressure is set to 20psi (we have moved that up and down to try and solve the issue, but the commercial stuff I buy is working without foam all of the time). The temperature in the line and cooler are at about 38 degrees.

We just aren't sure where things are going wrong. We've talked with other brewers and they've given suggestions but they haven't worked. If you have any addition questions about our process, I'll get you the answer. We just aren't sure where are process is breaking down. We let some pressure out of the keg prior to tapping it as it does build up pressure while fermenting. We do have conical fermenters prior to putting it in the keg. We've rolled the kegs prior to tapping.

Thanks for any help.

 

[kh54s10]

I can't follow your process. You are fermenting in conicals, then putting it in a keg yet you say there is fermentation in the keg? There shouldn't be if the fermentation was finished in the conicals. 20 psi is probably over carbonating the beer if it is at that pressure for too long. If it is fermenting in the keg, which will carbonate the beer, then you are also adding more carbonation with 20 psi, that is probably the source of the problem.

Try carbonating at a pressure that will pour from the faucet at a good rate. (With 70 - 80 feet of line you may need 20 psi to dispense??) Leave it at that pressure. 10 psi or so, for a couple weeks.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

I think what I meant to say is that we ferment in the conical and it's my understanding that once we keg, that it still is fermenting. I will reduce the pressure and see if it works. Is adding the sugar for carbonation not a good idea?

 

[kh54s10]

I think what I meant to say is that we ferment in the conical and it's my understanding that once we keg, that it still is fermenting. I will reduce the pressure and see if it works. Is adding the sugar for carbonation not a good idea?

It should not still be fermenting in the keg unless you transfer to the keg before it is done in the conical, or you add more sugar. Normally you don't transfer to a keg until fermentation is finished. Also you normally do not add any sugar when kegging. That is what the psi of co2 does.

If you add sugar to the keg and pressurize with co2 you are carbonating with the sugar AND carbonating with the co2 bottle. You can naturally carbonate in a keg with sugar. You would prime wait a couple weeks at room temperature, then chill and add co2 from the regulator at a pressure just enough to dispense the beer.

 

[Hayden123982]

I dont have too much experience with line balancing, especially with that much line, but with my system I had some difficulties with foamy beer. Mine was foamy but the beer itself was flat so I knew that my CO2 levels were too low in my keg (flat beer) and that my line was too short for the pressure I was pouring at (foamy beer). So my solution was increasing my CO2 and increasing my line length.

Again, no expert on line balancing, especially with that long of lines, but 20PSI at 38F on a carbonation chart does put you pretty far into the "highly carbed beers" category, plus if you are priming the kegs with sugar too then that would place you even further into an over carbed zone.

 

[day_trippr]

38°F and 20 psi will eventually reach equilibrium at 3.3 volumes of CO2. That's pretty high for most beers.
If the primer got chewed up by yeast there's the potential for an even higher carbonation level, but as there's still just the 3.3 volume temperature vs pressure solution in play, the difference will show up as out-gassing (eg: visible CO2 pockets in the beer line).

Then there's what pressure the dispensing system can even handle.. What is the inside diameter of these 70-80 foot beer lines?

Cheers!

 

[bpgreen]

I think some of you may have missed the part where he's adding sugar to carbonate. That's probably the key. My guess is too much sugar is being added for carbonation.

How much sugar are you adding?

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

We were adding about 3-4 cups, but we did decrease to about 2 cups. We have decided to keg the next with no sugar added.

 

[kh54s10]

I think you found your problem. Not only were you carbonating with co2 AND sugar, you were priming with almost twice the sugar required.

Here is the priming calculator I use: https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator