Flip Top Glass Bottles

[Dave_E]

Hi Everyone,

Received an order of 750ml flip top bottles from Amazon for my cider. I’ve decided to go with flip tops (and because it’s what I see a lot of home brewers do). After I got to looking at them, the spot of either side of the bottle that the metal mechanism goes is a hole probably put there during the manufacturing process. Has anyone ever had one of these punch through or crack the top of the bottle? Just never thought about it before.

Dave

 

[fluketamer]

no they wont punch through. however not all flip tops are the same. the amazon ones especially tend to be too weak around the gasket to hold pressure. as well as the ones you find at dollar stores.

many are meant for liquers or hot sauce or oils etc, not pressurized liquids. (dont ask me how i know this - i learned the hard way )

post a link and likely we will be able to tell if they are decent for beer/cider.


lastly have a look at these :

they turn any glass pop bottle into a swingtop/
i have got them cheap on amazon but i cant find the link

 

[corncob]

I've never had one punch through on my ez-cap bottles. The only problems I have had is with gaskets. My advice is to go ahead and buy replacements and be liberal replacing any that look like they have taken too much of a set.

In hindsight, I hardly ever reclose a bottle. I bought the ones I have because they are quarts. The bottles are great, but I might have been happier with bombers and a cheap capper. On the other hand, I've only poured a few quarts out after finding the gasket had failed.

 

[Deadalus]

I've seen them chip on the outer edge of the glass before, where the metal first enters the glass. Rare though and doesn't affect the inside. I recall it happening when putting the metal back onto the bottle. I don't like to take the mechanism off the bottle as it stretches the metal so I tend to slide the cage end across the glass and that can chip the corner of glass. (Top of the glass hole.)

A good many of mine are 30+ years old. They are not continuously used anymore. I've never had the metal go through the glass. There's no inward tension on the neck side when in place unless you've bent them too much (narrowed tge circular part). Most of mine are the ones from the French(?) beer company Alsace Lorainne(sp?) and those are pretty stoutly made.

This has been discussed in other threads but I'll mention the newer ones have silicone (deeper red) gaskets which you may want to replace with rubberized gaskets (salmon, pinkish).

I take the gaskets off and then clean and store without the gasket on but closed. This prevents early deformation of the gasket. They'll start to stretch out. The silicone ones seem to do this mire and not release the cap impression

 

[MaxStout]

I have about 80 or so green Grolsch swingtops that I've only used a few times. Never had any problems with the bails punching through or chipping the glass, and never had any leakers, but then again, only bottled in them a few times and I use the rubber gaskets. Only time I use them is when I carbonate a beer over 3.0 volumes, as the bottles (supposedly) handle a little more. Otherwise, I just use 12oz poptop long necks.

 

[DavidBD]

I've never had one punch through on my ez-cap bottles. The only problems I have had is with gaskets. My advice is to go ahead and buy replacements and be liberal replacing any that look like they have taken too much of a set.

In hindsight, I hardly ever reclose a bottle. I bought the ones I have because they are quarts. The bottles are great, but I might have been happier with bombers and a cheap capper. On the other hand, I've only poured a few quarts out after finding the gasket had failed.

At the start of bottling day I soak the gaskets in very hot sanitizer solution while getting other things ready. I feel like the hot water makes the seals more pliable and may reset some deformation. Some gaskets can be flipped over as well. Also, each time I empty a bottle, I clean it and store it with the cap kept loose; sitting on top to keep dust out, but not clipped tight. Mine have been working fine for years.
I use 1-liter flip top bottles so I only need 18 or 19 for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[corncob]

At the start of bottling day I soak the gaskets in very hot sanitizer solution while getting other things ready. I feel like the hot water makes the seals more pliable and may reset some deformation. Some gaskets can be flipped over as well. Also, each time I empty a bottle, I clean it and store it with the cap kept loose; sitting on top to keep dust out, but not clipped tight. Mine have been working fine for years.
I use 1-liter flip top bottles so I only need 18 or 19 for a 5 gallon batch.

I store them loose as well, and flip them.

I wonder if I've not been getting "the good ones" (whatever they are made from) or if I have unreasonable expectations. I've run a lot of beer through those bottles.

 

[Maylar]

post a link and likely we will be able to tell if they are decent for beer/cider.

How about these?

PopTops

I'm interested in shipping some cider to my sister. Would they survive? Rather not do Champagne bottles.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

no they wont punch through. however not all flip tops are the same. the amazon ones especially tend to be too weak around the gasket to hold pressure. as well as the ones you find at dollar stores.

many are meant for liquers or hot sauce or oils etc, not pressurized liquids. (dont ask me how i know this - i learned the hard way )

post a link and likely we will be able to tell if they are decent for beer/cider.


lastly have a look at these :
View attachment 876213

they turn any glass pop bottle into a swingtop/
i have got them cheap on amazon but i cant find the link

These were from temu, (you posted a link then) I clicked the link and they were discontinued.

 

[Deadalus]

How about these?

PopTops

I'm interested in shipping some cider to my sister. Would they survive? Rather not do Champagne bottles.

They don't seem weak and ought to fare as well as other homebrew bottles would (packed well). Does cider get light struck? I have used clear to brown bottles in the past for various homebrewing including mead, cider, and beer. I keep anything bottled in the dark mostly and definitely boxed if using clear or green bottles. I wouldn't pay though for clear bottles.

EZ caps seem well made. I have a case of one liters but haven't used them as of yet.

@Dave_E I will mention that I have collected champagne bottles the years and I use those for cider and mead when I make either and packaging in larger bottles. They can be capped with a larger cap, corked, or use the plastic champagne corks with cages. I like to do the last one but it will cost a little extra and take up extra time packaging.

 

[An Ankoù]

The bottles seem robust.
No. Cider doesn't get light struck.
Neither does beer if you keep the light out.
I bottle beer in clear bottles and then put the bottles in cardboard boxes.

 

[fluketamer]

How about these?

PopTops

I'm interested in shipping some cider to my sister. Would they survive? Rather not do Champagne bottles.

those are good bottles

 

[An Ankoù]

I've sent flip top bottles through the post and I always tie the lids by knotting a piece of string through the mechanism so that the lid can't be flipped until it's undone. I imagine a jolt in the post could otherwise knock one open.

 

[fluketamer]

I've sent flip top bottles through the post and I always tie the lids by knotting a piece of string through the mechanism so that the lid can't be flipped until it's undone. I imagine a jolt in the post could otherwise knock one open.

i dont think so. a good sealed flip top should not be able to be jarred loose. good flip tops require a fair amount of oomph to open. the ones that open very easily are usually not pressure rated.

but it cant be bad to add extra security like you do.

btw when sending beer i learned that usps is a no no only ups or fedex. (ups cheaper)

 

[An Ankoù]

I see your point, but the Belgian beer bottles I collect are corked and the rounded top means they won't take a crown cork. So I either cork and cage them or, usually, I fit a collar to take the flip-top closure. A lot of beer cimes in these bottles and they're too good to throw away, I've got a couple of hundred.

 

[Maylar]

btw when sending beer i learned that usps is a no no only ups or fedex.

Perhaps the postal laws are different in France -

 

[Deadalus]

The bottles seem robust.
No. Cider doesn't get light struck.
Neither does beer if you keep the light out.
I bottle beer in clear bottles and then put the bottles in cardboard boxes.

I had also lightly checked info regarding lightstruck in cider, as for beer hops and light are the problem with skunking and ciders only sometimes have hops added. Multiple sources did suggest light affects flavor and color in cider. Including this excerpt from bjcp.org:

Aside from oxidation, other factors that can degrade a cider during storage are heat, light, and mechanical agitation. If oxygen is present, all of these factors will increase the rate of oxidation. However, they can also degrade an oxygen-free cider. They speed up the rate of chemical reactions, and can cause flavor and color to become more muted.

Not exactly lightstruck, as that's more of the skunky flavor in beer. I would just keep the cider in the dark as I mentioned in my post.

I would buy blue bottles myself, if I was in the market, as I don't have any of those!

 

[An Ankoù]

Perhaps the postal laws are different in France -

Yes they are but i think @fluketamer is training about the US.

 

[odie]

I first used store bought flip tops long ago...they are weak and you will have some explode...

Just buy a bunch of beer in flips. Grolsch is the fav of many. They are very thick and strong. The actual cost will probably be cheaper than buying "new empties" and you get free beer to drink. Grolsch and other similar ones will be much stronger and designed for the pressure of carbonation.

 

[wepeeler]

Hi Everyone,

Received an order of 750ml flip top bottles from Amazon for my cider. I’ve decided to go with flip tops (and because it’s what I see a lot of home brewers do). After I got to looking at them, the spot of either side of the bottle that the metal mechanism goes is a hole probably put there during the manufacturing process. Has anyone ever had one of these punch through or crack the top of the bottle? Just never thought about it before.

Dave

Be VERY careful with those bottles. I've ordered a few times from Amazon, and the quality has dropped off immensely. The bottles are very thin, and I had a few explode at a competition.

 

[fluketamer]

I first used store bought flip tops long ago...they are weak and you will have some explode...

Just buy a bunch of beer in flips. Grolsch is the fav of many. They are very thick and strong. The actual cost will probably be cheaper than buying "new empties" and you get free beer to drink. Grolsch and other similar ones will be much stronger and designed for the pressure of carbonation.

yeah but its grolsch (lol)

this stuff otoh rocks:

 

[An Ankoù]

Don't know how it is over there, but here, people are daft enough to buy empty, flip top bottles which I presume are for decorative purposes or to be used for table water. If you go to the lemonade section, you can get a much stronger bottle with quality lemonade in it and it;s cheaper than the empty bottle. the pressure in a lemonade bottle is horrendous, it's like opening champagne. I just weighed one and a 75 cl bottle weighs 600 grams, a bit heavier than a 75 cl Belgian beer bottle designed to take a cork ad cage (you can't crown cap these bottles), Worth looking at even if they're made of clear glass.

 

[mac_1103]

If you go to the lemonade section, you can get a much stronger bottle with quality lemonade in it and it;s cheaper than the empty bottle. the pressure in a lemonade bottle is horrendous, it's like opening champagne.

For those who may not be aware, "lemonade" on his side of the pond is more like what we North Americans would call lemon soda.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Don't know how it is over there, but here, people are daft enough to buy empty, flip top bottles which I presume are for decorative purposes or to be used for table water. If you go to the lemonade section, you can get a much stronger bottle with quality lemonade in it and it;s cheaper than the empty bottle. the pressure in a lemonade bottle is horrendous, it's like opening champagne. I just weighed one and a 75 cl bottle weighs 600 grams, a bit heavier than a 75 cl Belgian beer bottle designed to take a cork ad cage (you can't crown cap these bottles), Worth looking at even if they're made of clear glass.

I believe you! We just picked up a bottle of carbonated lemonade in a flip-top at ALDI this week. It had a LOT of pressure in it and is a heavy bottle. The bottle and soda was alas, from France.

 

[An Ankoù]

I believe you! We just picked up a bottle of carbonated lemonade in a flip-top at ALDI this week. It had a LOT of pressure in it and is a heavy bottle. The bottle and soda was alas, from France.

I didn't know you had Aldi (and Lidl?) over there. Nothing wrong with French lemonade, was it Lorena?

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I didn't know you had Aldi (and Lidl?) over there. Nothing wrong with French lemonade, was it Lorena?

ALDI & Lidl are both here. The lemonade is sold under the ALDI brand name, but a little poking around on the interwebs and one person reports that the markings on the bottle indicate that it is indeed made by Lorina. Evidently, Lorina bottles this for ALDI to sell under their store brand. My wife and I both enjoyed it, and will likely pick up some more soon.

 

[An Ankoù]

I've used these for beer bottles. Just keep them in a cardboard carton to exclude the light.

 

[vandalay]

yeah but its grolsch (lol)

this stuff otoh rocks:
View attachment 877128

Flensburger bottles are the best.
A few years ago they were available in my town, and I can get a good supply of them.
Just the right size for one dose.

 

[KegLand]

We have done a lot of testing on these bottles and generally swing tops are awesome with the one exception that they often use silicone seals.

Silicone is extremely gas permeable which means CO2 comes out of the bottle and oxygen gets into the bottle (even if it's under pressure).

Most Grolsch bottles are good as they have seals made from butyl rubber which is good for oxygen transmission but the only issue is these seals need be replaced and degrade quickly especially if they get exposed to sunlight.

Another alternatively is the low2 seals here that you can use to upgrade most swing tops and they do not perish like butyl rubber.

If you use silicone then only keep in the bottle for a 30 days max otherwise too much oxygen gets in via the seal and you loose your beer freshness.

 

[Dave_E]

Good idea, thanks for the tip. Going to be tough to order those from the U.S..

 

[An Ankoù]

They seem very expensive to me. Don't recall ever seeing silicone seals over here, where we use a lot of swing tops. Here's an example. Don't know if they ship to the states.

https://lajocondienne.com/fr/12-cave?page=12

 

[An Ankoù]

Kegland are creating a problem that didn't exist and then offering you, the customer, an expensive solution.
True. Silicone rubber is many, many times more permeable than butyl rubber.
BUT.
The joint is extremely small, perhaps less than a millimetre of highly compressed rubber and the thickness of the rubber that gases have to permeate is the width of the bottle lip, which is several millimetres, ie, a thick slice of rubber.
We're not comparing the permeability of rubber gloves or contact lenses here, but something relatively tiny and thick relative to its size.
In short, there's not a problem.

 

[DuncB]

I see your point, but the Belgian beer bottles I collect are corked and the rounded top means they won't take a crown cork. So I either cork and cage them or, usually, I fit a collar to take the flip-top closure. A lot of beer cimes in these bottles and they're too good to throw away, I've got a couple of hundred.

View attachment 876500View attachment 876500View attachment 876501View attachment 876500

You need a bench capper and then crowns all round.

 

[An Ankoù]

You need a bench capper and then crowns all round.

No, that won't work. Unlike a Champagne bottle which is crown-capped before being disgorged and corked, a beer bottle doesn't have the flange to take a crown.

 

[DuncB]

That picture shows more detail and I see the issue.

They are only good for " bottling ".

Raid some other frenchmans bins for better bottles.

 

[KegLand]

Kegland are creating a problem that didn't exist and then offering you, the customer, an expensive solution.
True. Silicone rubber is many, many times more permeable than butyl rubber.
BUT.
The joint is extremely small, perhaps less than a millimetre of highly compressed rubber and the thickness of the rubber that gases have to permeate is the width of the bottle lip, which is several millimetres, ie, a thick slice of rubber.
We're not comparing the permeability of rubber gloves or contact lenses here, but something relatively tiny and thick relative to its size.
In short, there's not a problem.

I really have to disagree and it's a massive issue for oxygen sensitive beers.

Dark beerks like stouts or porters will probably not notice if they become oxidised but lagers, NEIPA, IPA or other hoppy beers will degrade really fast.

Silicone has more than an order of magnidue higher oxygen transmisison rate than other rubbers such as EPDM, Butyl rubber and other natural rubbers too. We have been trying to educate brewers about the difference and did independent lab testing for this reason too but many customers still don't believe it:


Also plenty of these swing top bottles use silicon seals but it's often not stipulated on the packaging so it's difficult to know what you are purchasing so I wish there was more education so customers would know the difference. I would encorage you to do side by side tests yourself (just like we have) and put a lager or pils into a bottle and have one with silicone and one with butyl rubber or LOW2 seals and I will be very surprised if you dont notice a sigificant difference after 6 months.

 

[An Ankoù]

That picture shows more detail and I see the issue.

They are only good for " bottling ".

Raid some other frenchmans bins for better bottles.

No, no, no, Duncan. They're wonderful bottles. I use a collar, as shiwn in post #15 above, which takes the flip-top mechanism. Or, if I'm bottling something really special, I'll use a cork and cage.
Corking beer and cider is common especially in the north of France and Belgium. It's not a wine ckrk and it's not a (mushroom-shaped) champagne cork. It's a special, composite beer cork, designed for the bottle. I've used these corks over and over, and the cages until the wires break. I've never had a beer go off. But then I throw away anything that's been used with a lambic or a gueuze or a saison.
The bottles are very strong, too.

 

[Dickerson]

no they wont punch through. however not all flip tops are the same. the amazon ones especially tend to be too weak around the gasket to hold pressure. as well as the ones you find at dollar stores.

many are meant for liquers or hot sauce or oils etc, not pressurized liquids. (dont ask me how i know this - i learned the hard way )

post a link and likely we will be able to tell if they are decent for beer/cider.


lastly have a look at these :
View attachment 876213

they turn any glass pop bottle into a swingtop/
i have got them cheap on amazon but i cant find the link

I bought these for champagne bottles I had saved. Bottle is not going to explode. Very hard to attach. I had to get some longer screws. Here is link:

https://www.amazon.com/Ferroday-Swi...refix=flip+top+bottle+cap,aps,208&sr=8-6&th=1

 

[DuncB]

@An Ankoù
I can see the versatility now for those bottles.
Think I remember the plastic bottle cork thing.
I enjoy those ciders with my french lunches.

 

[Andyandroid]

I saved all my Grolsch bottles over the years; they are great!