Flavorless Cider

[srogackijr]

New to Ciders so I'm playing around with a 1 gallon batch. Picked up 1 gallon of Pasteurized Apple Cider at Giant.
SG Reading of 1.058
- Dissolved 1 Cup of Corn Sugar and 1 Cup of Light Brown sugar in 2 Cups of the Cider.
- Added the Mixture with the remaining Cider to a 1 Gallon carboy leaving a little head room.
- Added 1/2 tsp of Pectic Enzyme and waited 1 hour.
- OG Reading was 1.074
- Added 1/2 tsp Yeast energizer and 1 tsp yeast nutrient.
- Then pitched the yeast.
- Used Red Star Cote des Blancs yeast.

Three weeks have pasted and I took an SG reading and it was .990. I sampled the cider and it completely flavorless.

Any ideas? Did I wait too long, is it just the yeast, bad mixture of sugars?

Should I do another batch and leave out the sugars being that the cider alone is at 1.058? Give it a week or so then take a reading and bottle at something around 1.010?

Thanks in advance

 

[Bh750]

HI I'm still new and learning here but I'll chime in. Sounds like maybe you waited a little long so its on the "dry" side (versus the "sweet" side). Basically the longer you wait the more sugar the yeast will consume until it runs out and goes dormant. Both the corn sugar and brown sugar was consumed by the yeast. All you need to do is either "back sweeten" or add some extra flavor like apple extract. With back sweetening you add sugars that are sweet but the yeast wont eat, like stevia.

The yeast also has to do with the flavoring as well.

 

[srogackijr]

Yeah looks like you are correct based on what I've been reading. I just kicked off a second batch:

- 3 Cans of Giant brand 100% Apple Juice Frozen Concentrate (No Preservs or adds)
- Finish off with water and leave head space in Carboy.
- OG: 1.062
- Target FG: 1.020
- Target ABV% = 5.43% +.50 for priming and sweetening approx. 6%
- Add 1/2 tsp Pectic Enzyme and start 60 minute countdown.
- Yeast will be Safale S-04
- After 60 minutes add in 1/2 tsp Yeast Energizer
- Add 1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
- Pitch Yeast 1/2 tsp Safale S-04

I'll give it a week and take a gravity reading and target 1.018 - 1.022 as my FG. Hopefully that will have a better result.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'll bet you fermented too warm and didn't rack it enough. Try fermenting cool at about 55-60 F if you can, and rack the cider about every 5 days to slow down the fermentation considerably, and let it go for at least 4 weeks and see where it ends up. When the fermentation is overly active, the CO2 bubbles all the good flavors and aromas right out of the cider. Slow it down somehow. And don't use energizer or nutrients, that only speeds things up all the more. Many people don't agree with me but they have the right to be wrong.

 

[ericbw]

I really don't expect your cider to stop at 1.018-1.020. If it does, please don't bottle. Apple juice typically ferments out completely to 1.000 or a little under. If you bottle at 1.020, you have a good chance of explosions. Please.

That said, the trick is to ferment slowly like dmtaylor said, all the way out like the first batch. Then add back some juice or concentrate to sweeten it.

Then bottle, let it carb, then pasteurize (there's a sticky).

You know how mint tea tastes more minty when you add sugar? Cider tastes more apple-y when you add sugar. If the sugar is apple juice concentrate, that's even better!

 

[srogackijr]

Great...thanks for all the feed back...I'm going to try to slow things down with this batch. I'll rack and take gravity readings till I'm at 1.000 or under then add some juice back in to sweeten, bottle, and pasteurize using the process in the forums once it's carb'd.

Thanks!

 

[bernardsmith]

What you might try doing is to stabilize the cider you have made by adding K-meta AND K-sorbate and then add some sweetener. You might bench test the cider to see how sweet the cider should be. Adding sugar to sweeten will help bring forward the fruit flavor but commercially produced apple juice meant to be drunk as a soft drink is likely to be flavor poor once you remove (read : ferment) all the the sugar...

 

[srogackijr]

When I rack, should I leave behind all the stuff on the bottom or bring it over clean?

 

[dmtaylor]

Leave bottom stuff (called "lees") behind.

 

[HopGobbler]

Sounds to me like it's dry, you should be able to back sweeten it to get the flavor back

 

[Weezy]

The flavorlessness is because of the juice you started with. Sweet juice is going to ferment out and not leave much behind. This is why it is commonly recommended to use mixed apples, including 10-20% tart apples as they tend to leave more residual Apple flavor. Allowing fermentation to drop early or use low attenuating yeast is an option as well, to hopefully retain more character. Or backsweeten.

Try some bottles of gravenstein cider to supplement the regular Apple juice next time.

 

[MosquitoDance]

This is just what happens with cider. Pretty much any yeast is going to take it to dry. I use dry ale yeasts (Notty or US05). A lot of people use frozen concentrates to add flavor and sweetness back, and I'm a big fan of this. If you keg, you can sorbate after sweetening and then force carb. That's the easiest route.

But if you bottle, don't let anyone tell you you can't have it both ways. You can add concentrate and bottling sugar, and after a few days of bottling when you reach the level of carb you want, just pasteurize on the stove. It's labor intensive but SO preferable to drinking bone dry carbed cider or still sweet cider.

 

[Lefou]

I've bottle carbed cider using 750ml PET bottles.
I don't recommend anyone else doing this because their results may vary. PET was used as an experiment to see if bottle-carbing in glass was possible.

Using Fermentis S04 ale yeast, I dried out a store-bought apple juice to about 1.010 gravity and sealed a few samples in three PET bottles. The PET bottles yielded further fermentation with a slightly petillant result. I kept them out of the light for several months and there was no flavor degradation, loss of carbonation, or bottle ruptures if kept at temperatures of 70F or below.
Eventually, I opened them up and checked the gravity and taste. The yeast had flocculated to the bottom and given a very dry, thin cidery equivalent of weak Chardonnay. If anyone has tasted certain Chardonnay wines, some can leave a "buttery" flavor, which is exactly what I got after this little experiment ... and there was no sweet component left.
Even though I'd used ale yeast, the yeast had eaten every last bit of sugar available, giving a .998 final gravity. Measured starting gravity of the juice was about 1.046.

 

[Hankhill11]

After several months of bottle conditioning, maybe 4-6+, some of the apple or fruitiness will return. If its bone bone dry, then you still will get hints of fruit, but sweetening it will also help.

 

[TGFV]

Adding to what HankHill said, the longer you age the cider, the more the apple flavour comes back (cider is ridiculously easy to make but if you want it to taste right, it takes awhile to age. Just no where near as long as mead).

Another good idea you can do is instead of adding white sugar or brown sugar, just add a few cans of frozen apple juice concentrate. While you won't know exactly how much fermentavle sugar each can holds, you can still test with a hydrometer to get a OG and it helps it retain much of its apple flavour I found out from my last batch.

Sugar on the other hand makes it dryer and (temporarily) lose its apple flavour.

Also you can rack in lightly smashed apples for more flavour, but that increases risks of bacteria etc if your alc% isn't high enough to kill them all.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Another good idea you can do is instead of adding white sugar or brown sugar, just add a few cans of frozen apple juice concentrate.

Second on the FAC, it will add a lot of flavor. You can also include some peels from granny smith apples in the ferment. They add flavor and a bit of acid that store bought juice is lacking.

 

[ericbw]

You can figure out how much sugar is in each can. Multiply the grams of sugar per serving. That's the total grams of sugar in the can.

 

[Evan55]

My tips:
Dont use wine or champagne yeast, they strip out flavor. Use ale or cider yeast.
Dont add simple sugar pre ferment. If you want to boost starting gravity, I like adding AJC. Adds sugar and apple flavor.
Post-ferment, try playing with malic acid, apple extract, and tannins. Personally I backsweeten as a last resort.