Flat beer...
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hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Just to be clear: you just bottled it yesterday and wonder why it's flat?
Beer is flat until you carbonate it. Either with a force carbonation system (when kegging) or by adding priming sugar to the beer at bottling time. The sugar reawakens the yeast and a 2nd mini-fermentation produces the carbonation as the beer ages in the bottle (over the course of an additional 2-3 weeks time).
If you did not add any priming sugar to your beer whilst bottling, I'm afraid you are going to be stuck with flat beer.
Beer is flat until you carbonate it. Either with a force carbonation system (when kegging) or by adding priming sugar to the beer at bottling time. The sugar reawakens the yeast and a 2nd mini-fermentation produces the carbonation as the beer ages in the bottle (over the course of an additional 2-3 weeks time).
If you did not add any priming sugar to your beer whilst bottling, I'm afraid you are going to be stuck with flat beer.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Technically any sugar can work. Generally white cane or corn sugar are preferred due to their high fermentability and minimal flavor contribution, but you can use brown sugar, DME, honey,etc. The main differences are the amounts you use of each, their fermentability, and flavor differences.
if it can be fermented, it can be primed with. Although the conversions are not always the same. To reach the same volumes of CO2 with corn sugar vs table sugar vs DME vs turbinado vs maple syrup vs honey vs. agave syrup vs. invert syrup vs. whatever else folks have primed with, each one will require a different amount, and have a different impact. Generally the generic "sugars", the corn sugar, the table sugar, etc, won't have a flavor impact. Other sugars will have a flavor impact. Some that are completely fermentable won't affect the body or anything like that. Some, like DME, that are not fully fermentable, will increase the body slightly. Corn sugar (dextrose) are table sugar (sucrose) are the most common ones and the easiest and most neutral to work with.
Just search for "priming sugar calculator" on your friendly Googling Machine, and you'll find a number of different calculators out there. You put in the volume you're bottling (not the batch size, but the bottled volume- I usually assume about a 10% loss to the yeast cake- for 5 gallons of beer in the fermenter, I enter 4.5 gallons as the bottled volume, and I get as close as I can), the temperature of the beer, and the amount of carbonation you want (it really varies by style, but 2.5 volumes is a good middle of the road number that'll work for a lot of styles) and it'll tell you how much sugar you need.
And then a day after bottling will not make for carbonated beer even if you primed it. It'll take a week or so for the CO2 to develop, and then 3 weeks is the best timeframe for it to actually balance out (any sooner than that, and it'll blow off most of the CO2 when you open it, foaming too much and leaving a flatter beer behind). For best results, bottle it, store it in the dark at about 70 degrees, let it sit at 70 for 3 weeks, then a few days in the fridge after that before pouring it.
Although there's some other ways to do things. There's ways to prime with wort (krausening), or by blending beers and then bottling (a la Gueuze) some English brewers will transfer to a cask when there's still a few points left to attenuate, and then seal it and carbonate it that way. Although given the initial question and the follow up post, I'm guessing you probably dont' yet have the experience to make any of those a good idea at this point. More likely to end badly (or even dangerously) if you don't know what you're doing.
Just search for "priming sugar calculator" on your friendly Googling Machine, and you'll find a number of different calculators out there. You put in the volume you're bottling (not the batch size, but the bottled volume- I usually assume about a 10% loss to the yeast cake- for 5 gallons of beer in the fermenter, I enter 4.5 gallons as the bottled volume, and I get as close as I can), the temperature of the beer, and the amount of carbonation you want (it really varies by style, but 2.5 volumes is a good middle of the road number that'll work for a lot of styles) and it'll tell you how much sugar you need.
And then a day after bottling will not make for carbonated beer even if you primed it. It'll take a week or so for the CO2 to develop, and then 3 weeks is the best timeframe for it to actually balance out (any sooner than that, and it'll blow off most of the CO2 when you open it, foaming too much and leaving a flatter beer behind). For best results, bottle it, store it in the dark at about 70 degrees, let it sit at 70 for 3 weeks, then a few days in the fridge after that before pouring it.
Although there's some other ways to do things. There's ways to prime with wort (krausening), or by blending beers and then bottling (a la Gueuze) some English brewers will transfer to a cask when there's still a few points left to attenuate, and then seal it and carbonate it that way. Although given the initial question and the follow up post, I'm guessing you probably dont' yet have the experience to make any of those a good idea at this point. More likely to end badly (or even dangerously) if you don't know what you're doing.
NickTheGreat
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Well . . . not adding the sugar is what it will be flat. It'd be flat anyway after just a day. You'll need 2 - 3 weeks (with sugar) at least to get carbed.
A lot of guys say any sugar is fine, but I've only ever used priming sugar.
A lot of guys say any sugar is fine, but I've only ever used priming sugar.
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Usually it is easiest to add the priming sugar to the bottling bucket. Since they are already bottled something like these priming sugar drops might work better for your application.
You can also just add sugar to each bottle. If they are 12 oz bottles I think a half teaspoon is the correct amount to add. Just uncap, add sugar, and recap, and you should be all set. Wait 2-3 weeks before trying one otherwise it will still be flat.
You can also just add sugar to each bottle. If they are 12 oz bottles I think a half teaspoon is the correct amount to add. Just uncap, add sugar, and recap, and you should be all set. Wait 2-3 weeks before trying one otherwise it will still be flat.
Ok cool.... So since I jarred it in quart mason jars can I just create a thick sugar-water mixture and add a calculated amount to each jar and allow it to ferment and therefore produce the necessary co2 for a good carbonation?? Or will that make my jars explode?
Also, probably a dumb idea hindsight(done to prevent infection), but I added potassium metabisulfate before bottling.... Will that have killed all my beer yeast? Will I need to add more yeast to the sugar mixture if I use the method discussed above??
Also, probably a dumb idea hindsight(done to prevent infection), but I added potassium metabisulfate before bottling.... Will that have killed all my beer yeast? Will I need to add more yeast to the sugar mixture if I use the method discussed above??
Yep, you killed the yeast. And you don't want to bottle in mason jars as they aren't designed to hold pressure in, they are designed to keep pressure out (vacuum). Honestly, at this point, if I were you, I would just drink my flat beer and call it a learning experience.
EDIT: I learned that K meta will not kill brewer's yeast.
EDIT: I learned that K meta will not kill brewer's yeast.
Nothing safe at least.
I don't know enough about the mechanisms that k-meta uses, but repitching yeast might work. But as said above, those jars are designed to keep pressure out, not hold it in. I'd be worried they'd burst, potentially without warning. Bottling in something that's not designed to hold pressure is not a good plan, especially if it's glass. Bottle (or in this case jar) bombs are dangerous.
And any attempt to get them out of those jars is probably going to a) be so much more trouble than its worth and b) probably oxidize the batch in the process.
So yeah, if you already hit them with k-meta then I would just drink them flat and call it a learning experience.
I don't know for certain, but I think once you use the potassium metabisulfate it will continue to kill anything that gets into your beer, bugs or yeast. That is why it is such a common preservative in the food industry.
agreed, at this point, I'd chalk it up to experience.
A mason jar likely will not hold the pressure of carbonation. You should get a bunch of regular 12oz long necks. You can usually find them free (or cheap) on craigslist if you don't mind cleaning them well. You'll need 52 bottles for 5 gallons.
I would also skip the potassium metabisulfate. You need live yeast obviously for them to ferment your priming sugar of choice. However, as per your question, yes, theoretically you would be able to pitch more yeast along with priming sugar and restart fermentation. However, I think there is a period of time you would have to wait for the metabisulfate to be neutralized so it doesn't kill the new yeast as well.
A mason jar likely will not hold the pressure of carbonation. You should get a bunch of regular 12oz long necks. You can usually find them free (or cheap) on craigslist if you don't mind cleaning them well. You'll need 52 bottles for 5 gallons.
I would also skip the potassium metabisulfate. You need live yeast obviously for them to ferment your priming sugar of choice. However, as per your question, yes, theoretically you would be able to pitch more yeast along with priming sugar and restart fermentation. However, I think there is a period of time you would have to wait for the metabisulfate to be neutralized so it doesn't kill the new yeast as well.
You know to be honest I kinda wanna be experimental.... Ik gonna mix 3oz turbinado cane sugar, 2c water, 1/3 yeast packet, and 1tsp yeast nutrient and give 1/16 c per liter and see how it turns out.... We'll see how it turns out... I'm actually gonna give half the batches half of the mixture and see how that works out! I honestly want to see how this works out mostly an experimentation... Because of the mason jar's outside covering I believe it can withold a certain pressure... While I agree it cannot withold high pressures, I believe it should be able to withstand reasonable pressure
CanAusBrewer
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Have fun cleaning up the mess when they explode.
CanAusBrewer
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What is the purpose of asking a question on this forum if you don't take heed of the advice you are given by many who are experts in this hobby and have been brewing for years? My two cents.
boydster
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Be careful. Keep the jars in a rubbermaid tub or cardboard box or some other place where they won't hurt anyone if they explode. Regardless of what Disney movies may want you to think, simply believing in something doesn't make it true.
kyt
Well-Known Member
If you wanted you could get one of those Party Pig things and force carb that. There's a party box thing that's similar too but it's square. Or transfer to some 2L soda bottles, with a carbing cap if you have someone who could pressurize it for you.
If not, maybe you could chip off a fourth of an alkaseltzer tablet, drop that in your glass then pour the beer on top of it when you're ready to drink it. Might taste a little odd but certainly wouldn't be flat anymore lol.
If not, maybe you could chip off a fourth of an alkaseltzer tablet, drop that in your glass then pour the beer on top of it when you're ready to drink it. Might taste a little odd but certainly wouldn't be flat anymore lol.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
1. Mason jars will explode. They cannot hold that kind of pressure.
2. Exploding glass containers (known bottle bombs in beer-making) are highly dangerous and can cause serious injury if you or someone else happens to be nearby when they go, or at least serious property damage if you are not.
3. Do not attempt to carbonate a beverage in a mason jar, ever.
4. Do not attempt this.
5. Do not attempt this.
As the great Japanese poets once said:
"The jars will explode
You're going to hurt yourself
Do not attempt this"
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2. Exploding glass containers (known bottle bombs in beer-making) are highly dangerous and can cause serious injury if you or someone else happens to be nearby when they go, or at least serious property damage if you are not.
3. Do not attempt to carbonate a beverage in a mason jar, ever.
4. Do not attempt this.
5. Do not attempt this.
As the great Japanese poets once said:
"The jars will explode
You're going to hurt yourself
Do not attempt this"
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
boydster
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This public service announcement has been brought to you by the Saturday Safety Haiku Committee. Keeping people safe from themselves since 650 BC.
jiggs_casey
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What in the world does that 'outside covering' have to do with how much pressure a mason jar will hold? As stated, mason jars are NOT designed to contain pressure. You are going to wind up injuring yourself.
One of life's great mysteries.
OP we obviously can't stop you from doing whatever you're going to do but be aware that a number of us with far more experience than you are saying this is a bad idea and not to do it. If you hurt yourself or someone else in the process you have no one to blame but yourself. There's a difference between experimenting and playing with fire.
I can speak from experience, I had a mason jar explode, my wife got burned quite badly! They blow at very little pressure, a good thing for me! Had it held more pressure, the explosion would have been much more serious. Just use plastic soda bottles...and drink the beer flat!
BamaPhil
Well-Known Member
Since no one else has said it...
Lock the brewing equipment away and go read How To Brew by John Palmer. An old version is free online. I'm so glad I did so before I even bought my first kit, it made learning so much easier.
Once you've read and digested, pull the brewing equipment back out and proceed to RDWHAHB.
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Lock the brewing equipment away and go read How To Brew by John Palmer. An old version is free online. I'm so glad I did so before I even bought my first kit, it made learning so much easier.
Once you've read and digested, pull the brewing equipment back out and proceed to RDWHAHB.
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What I will do however is put the beer from my jars back into the carboy, prime it, then bottle it in the long necks you mentioned.... Just have to keep everything sanitized! Can someone just briefly explain the basic priming process?
Shred
Former Microbrewery Founder & Pro Brewer
Yeast eats priming sugar, creates CO2. In an appropriate container (i.e. beer bottle) the CO2 has nowhere to go and is forced into solution effectively carbonating your beer. If any of these components are missing (no priming sugar, dead yeast, unsuitable container) your beer will never be carbonated.
Shred
Former Microbrewery Founder & Pro Brewer
You are going to oxidize the hell out of this batch or you are at serious risk of infection.
And as an aside, I suggest losing the smug attitude as people are trying to help you and those who are in your home be safe...
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Well, if he doesn't want to drink the beer flat, and would be dumping it anyway, then why the hell not?
Infection is possible. Oxidation is probable. Neither is guaranteed. Best case, it works and all is well. Most likely cardboard beer is what he gets and he dumps it anyway wasting nothing more than some time and some priming sugar. Worst case, he picks up a bug or wild yeast and needs to replace a fermenter/bottling bucket/tubing.
Thank you. It's not being smug, it's being experimental with a first ever batch..... Oxidation, infection or whatever it's still fun. Ascorbic acid for oxidation and sanitization for infection will give it a good push. It's a beer I'm making for friends before I head off to college and I'm not giving it out flat....I'll let you know how it turns out, maybe you'll be right
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Meh, I never saw anything smug in what you've posted. Perhaps just a bit of beginner's ignorance, but we all started off that way in some fashion or another. 
Let us know how it turns it, whatever you decide to do with it. If you don't want to drink flat beer, then you might as well have some fun experimenting with it. Go nuts. (Except for the mason jar thing ).
Meanwhile, do some reading, ask questions, and brew more beer! This site is a great resource, as is John Palmer's How To Brew site mentioned earlier. Plenty of other great sites to check out as well, youtube videos, etc. There's a lot to learn, but it's a great and rewarding hobby once you get the hang of it.
Let us know how it turns it, whatever you decide to do with it. If you don't want to drink flat beer, then you might as well have some fun experimenting with it. Go nuts. (Except for the mason jar thing
).Meanwhile, do some reading, ask questions, and brew more beer! This site is a great resource, as is John Palmer's How To Brew site mentioned earlier. Plenty of other great sites to check out as well, youtube videos, etc. There's a lot to learn, but it's a great and rewarding hobby once you get the hang of it.
haha thank you. I just funneled it from each of my 1liter mason jars into a sanitized carboy, added an airlock and am currently giving it 48 hours( to be safe) for any remaining potassium metabisulfate to dissipate in the form of SO2.... then ill bring 81g of turbinado and 2c water to a boil; adding the yeast once it cools to 110 as well as .5tsp yeast nutrient. Finally ill add that whole mixture to the beer and bottle.....
Do you think I should give it longer to be sure there is no infection before priming??
Do you think I should give it longer to be sure there is no infection before priming??
To correct what I said earlier: I just read that potassium metabisulfate only causes yeast to not reproduce and doesn't kill them so your yeast are probably still alive! I think you should get the priming sugar in there ASAP and bottle them in beer bottle
good luck!
To correct what I said earlier: I just read that potassium metabisulfate only causes yeast to not reproduce and doesn't kill them so your yeast are probably still alive! I think you should get the priming sugar in there ASAP and bottle them in beer bottle
Wine and beer yeasts are amazingly tolerant of k-meta (potassium metabisulfite), and that is why winemakers use it routinely. The sulfite won't do a thing to this yeast.
boydster
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Don't hydrate your yeast in the same water you dissolve your sugar and nutrient in. Instead, bring a 1/2 cup of water up to 160 or a little higher (hot enough to pasteurize), cool to around 90-100, and hydrate your yeast in that.
Also, I didn't think you were being smug. I just thought you wanted to learn about mason jars the hard way. We all do that about something at one point or another. FWIW, I'm glad you chose to move away from that idea.
Also, I didn't think you were being smug. I just thought you wanted to learn about mason jars the hard way. We all do that about something at one point or another. FWIW, I'm glad you chose to move away from that idea.
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