Flameout Techniques

[tomakana]

All - digging around, but not sure I've been able to find a clean answer to this.

When an ingredient (hops, orange peel, etc) is listed as being added at flameout, I understand that means that when the boil is ended, wort is taken off the heat and the ingredient is added. How long does it stay in? Is it basically until the wort is chilled and transfered to the fermenter? Seems like that could be a fairly variable time depending on how quickly you can cool the wort. Are there specific periods of time you let things steep post flameout before cooling and transferring?

I'm a 1-gallon, primarily extract brewer, so there's not a lot of time between flameout and cooling to pitching temp, so it seems like I may not get the full effect of the flameout additions. I'm starting to branch out with some of my techniques and I'm about to try a recipe that references hops at flameout - just want to make sure I'm in the ball park of doing it right.

Thanks.

 

[McKnuckle]

There is no doing it "right" unfortunately. As with most brewing practices, it's highly subject to interpretation! This being said, it's probably useful to consider how a large brewery handles a flameout addition, since we adapt so much of our techniques from the pro space.

A brewery deals with large volumes and just about every process is slower than in our world of itty bitty vessels and volumes. This certainly includes the extended time it takes to chill x number of barrels worth of wort just taken off the boil. So if a brewery adds a flameout addition to the kettle and performs a whirlpool, or leverages a hopback while chilling and moving wort to the fermenter, it is going to take far more time than the < 5 minutes that it takes your immersion chiller to bring a few gallons of beer down to 175F.

So what I take from this is that flameout hops are meant to sit in the wort for at least 20 minutes, probably more like one hour, with the temp gradually reducing during that time. And I know that is really counter to what you'll read - how you'll get horrible extra bittering, need to adjust all of your other hop additions, you'll lose all the aroma, etc. etc.

If you use bags or canisters to keep your boil hops contained, you can remove them at flameout when you add the finishing hops. That way you avoid any extra time exposure. Partially closing the system (i.e. your kettle lid) may aid in containing hop oils. And cooling below the accepted point of isomerization (175F ish) is a good idea. One English brewery I visited recently keeps the wort temperature in their hopback at about 185F. Just one data point there.

At day's end, experimentation and empiricism are your friends. Give the various hopstand techniques and temps a try, and see what you think. Some people will agree with your conclusions, and others will not - like everything else in this hobby!

 

[tomakana]

Beautiful. Thanks for the help. Think I'm going to test some things out with a Citra Pale Ale - had a delicious one recently, and I've tweaked the process in Brewers Friend to get roughly the same ABV and IBUs using a hopstand. With any luck it'll work, and I'll adapt it to start learning about some other hops.

Thanks!

 

[Morrey]

Like McKnuckle advises, there are many possibilities to the way FO additions can be handled. As mentioned, I personally use 20 minutes as a time standard for my FO additions....but factor in I am using a Whirlpool arm and a WP pump to get accelerated hop utilization.

I use BeerSmith which does (new version) allow for IBU calculations from the FO additions. But I also consider how earlier additions during the boil will be impacted, for example hops I add in at 5 minutes to go in the boil. If I whirlpool at FO for 20 more minutes than calculated by BeerSmith for a 5 minute hop addition, I potentially overshoot IBU goals since the 5 minute hop addition is actually longer than 5 minutes.

Some of this is simply guesswork, but when making beers like IPA's which is were I use this FO method mainly, a bit more IBUs may not be that critical. Anyway, food for though.

 

[day_trippr]

While BS2 still has some glaring issues with hop utilization, one thing it does try to accommodate is to adjust boil hop IBUs when a whirlpool addition is performed.
If you check the box, the amount of >/=180°F WP time is also applied to the boil hops.



But ~170°F hop stands still have no home in BS2's math...

Cheers!