Flaked Rice - attenuation & mash time

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Does flaked rice yield higher attenuation than barley malt?

Is it recommended to mash flaked rice longer than barley to achieve full conversation?

I always thought flaked rice increased attenuation more than malted barley, but was surprised when I came across a brulosophy experiment where the rice batch actually attenuated less vs an equivalent 60 min mash of all malt.

 

[day_trippr]

I would have guessed the ppg is the same as malts...

https://stillntheclear.com/moonshine-101/typical-ppg-chart/

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

I've used rice (flaked and Minute) a couple times but looking to see if attenuation was noticeably higher in those batches, I have more variation in attenuation that I see can be attributed to mash temp than grist having rice.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I've used rice (flaked and Minute) a couple times but looking to see if attenuation was noticeably higher in those batches, I have more variation in attenuation that I see can be attributed to mash temp than grist having rice.

Good to know. I'll probably mash lower and longer since I want a highly ferementable wort.

 

[InspectorJon]

I have brewed a cold IPA a couple times recently that has around 20% rice. Attenuation has been very good. Over 80% using 34/70. Mash efficiency has been lower than anticipated though. I used jasmine rice and cooked it first, overnight in an instant pot on the porridge setting.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I have brewed a cold IPA a couple times recently that has around 20% rice. Attenuation has been very good. Over 80% using 34/70. Mash efficiency has been lower than anticipated though. I used jasmine rice and cooked it first, overnight in an instant pot on the porridge setting.

What was your mash temp?

 

[InspectorJon]

What was your mash temp?

BIAB. Started at 152. Down to 148 over a 60 minute rest. I just looked at my notes and AA was 86%

 

[InspectorJon]

I am thinking my efficiency issues might be related to not properly accounting for the water I used to cook the rice.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

BIAB. Started at 152. Down to 148 over a 60 minute rest. I just looked at my notes and AA was 86%

Nice!

I'm going to plan to mash for 90 min at 150F in an insulated mash tun. My mash tun (capable thermobarrel) maintains temp within half a degree in an hour.

Figure the extended time should help with conversion on the rice and add a slight gain in attenuation and efficiency

My grain bill has some crystal 60 malt in it as I'm brewing an amber type beer with Mexican lager yeast. Basically I want the caramel flavor just not the body / sweetness.

Here's my wild and crazy recipe. Keep in mind I do no sparge so my efficiency is generally garbage so I use more grain. My mash tun is 15g which lets me do full volume 6g batches with full volume

I'll report back on how it goes! Thanks!

 

[InspectorJon]

Lots of low or no enzyme malts there. Longer mash definitely seems like a good idea. I might go for 2 hours. My grain bill was 76% 2 row, 20% rice and 4% table sugar. I mashed a couple degrees lower the second time and got 88% AA. I don't think the rice will give you any trouble, other than it has no amylase. I actually added 1/4 tsp amylase (not gluco) to my porridge to get the rice mush to thin out. Pretty amazing stuff. Thick, stiff rice mush turned to thin soup consistency in a few minutes.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is it recommended to mash flaked rice longer than barley to achieve full conversation?

I've found (pre)boiling flaked corn for 40-60 minutes in ample water, prior to the mash, giving better mash efficiency in a regular 1 hour mash. Of course this is most noticeable when using flaked corn at higher percentages in the grist.
I wouldn't be surprised the same holding true for flaked rice, which has an even higher gelatinization temperature.

After the boil, the resulting thin "polenta" is then topped up with water to the intended strike water volume, for the main mash.

I haven't compared attenuation differences between using pre-boiled and (uncooked) dry flaked corn (or rice) in the mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

I do no sparge so my efficiency is generally garbage so I use more grain.

Why not do a simple batch sparge after lautering the main mash? I'm quite sure you'd improve mash efficiency with 10-15% net, instantly. You could use cold water, or just keep some hot/warm water in a bucket or gott.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Why not do a simple batch sparge after lautering the main mash? I'm quite sure you'd improve mash efficiency with 10-15% net, instantly. You could use cold water, or just keep some hot/warm water in a bucket or gott.

My current setup is designed with Low oxygen brewing in mind. Batch sparging isn't compatible with low oxygen brewing unfortunately.

I don't care too much about the lower efficiency as long as it's predictable and on target with my recipe design. My mash tun has the volume for extra grain. I generally just up the grain to account for lower efficiency.

Another thing I like about no sparge brewing is it saves time. One less step.

I've also been enjoying the flavor of the wort from first runnings. I think non sparged wort may taste smoother, but could be in my head. I think with skipping the sparge there's less of a chance to pull out astringency from the grains.

I used to batch sparge back in the day though

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Well, the 90 minute mash which started at 150.5 and dropping to 149 kicked up my efficiency +12% more than normal

I ended up having to add 3/4 gallons water to dilute back to target gravity.
I'll keep the thread posted on the attenuation