Flaked Corn and Rice problem

[DilsmackDude]

Im new at all this so I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. But the guy at the homebrew store told me to steep flaked corn and rice for 30 minutes at 150 degrees. He said it could add a creamy feel to the beer. I did this once with a 60 minute boil, 6lbs of pale extract, a couple different types of hops and 2 weeks in the fermenter at 70 degrees. Then I did it again with that glueten free soroughm stuff, 60 minute boil, a few different hop additions, fermented at 60 degrees for two weeks. Bottled both of them with 5oz corn sugar, and neither one would carbonate. What am I doing wrong? something to do with the corn and flaked rice I'm assuming, no other beers have given me trouble with carbonating. Please let me know if anyone can spot my mistake. thanks.

 

[DilsmackDude]

oh yeah and If this has already been answered I couldnt find it so forgive me.

 

[Walzenbrew]

Well, the flaked corn and rice would not affect carbonation, but there are a lot of other unanswered things that could affect it.

1. What temperature were you bottling at? It should not be colder than 60F and not warmer than mid 70F
2. How did you do bottling? did you rack to a bottling bucket, boil the sugar in 2 cups water and then add?

There has to be something different about this batch, that's not the corn or rice, that would affect it.

 

[DilsmackDude]

yeah I bottled with a bucket and did just what you described. 2 cups boiled water with 5oz sugar, into a bottling bucket with the beer and then into the bottles. all kept at 65-70 degrees. The reason I was leaning toward the corn and rice is because it was basically the only things in common with the two batches I've had that would not carbonate.

 

[JustLooking]

It won't change the way your beer carbonates, but the shop guy gave you bad advice. Never steep flaked grains. They have to be mashed or they will leave starches in your finished beer and lead to haze and instability.

Your carbonation problem is something else unrelated.
What were your Original and Final gravity readings?

 

[davarei]

You did use yeast... right?
same yeast?

 

[DilsmackDude]

Well I have only made a handful of batches and never really taken any gravity readings, is that something I should always do? This time I used california lager yeast, the smack pack kind. The ferment temperature range is high 60s so the homebrew guy said it would be fine. Last time I used dry ale yeast.

 

[DilsmackDude]

are there any common mistakes I could have made that would make it hard for the beer to carbonate? I read somewhere that sometimes the yeast will settle and you need to shake the bottles to suspend it in the beer. But I think thats only if you leave it in the fermentor for a long time.

 

[JustLooking]

Your homebrew store really should have sold you a hydrometer instead of the flaked grains and lager yeast. My guess would be dead yeast and future bottle bombs once something wild takes hold.

 

[DilsmackDude]

care to elaborate? Why do you think the yeast is dead?

 

[DilsmackDude]

also I only used that type of yeast once. the other time it did the same thing with regular old dry ale yeast.

 

[Joe9216]

Lager yeasts have all their fun in the lower temperature ranges, while ale yeasts in the mid temp ranges. Hydrometer readings will always tell you if your beer is even fermenting like it should and even when its done and time for the bottle. One other thing is your OG/FG readings with a hydrometer is if your OG is too high, the yeast may die out once a certain alcohol percentage is neared. When using liquid yeast, even the smack paks, I still like to do a simple starter. just to make sure the yeast are active and healthy. This can be done easily even without a stirplate. I'm sure you cooled down the priming sugar water before racking ontop of it, as too hot could kill off some yeast.

 

[JustLooking]

care to elaborate? Why do you think the yeast is dead?

Just a guess. If there was healthy yeast present the beer should be carbonated. The assumption is that you underpitched and stressed out the yeast. But without hydrometer reading, a guess is all it is.

Checking that final gravity has been reached before bottling is pretty important for safety reasons (potential bottle bombs.) Get a hydrometer and check the gravity of one of your bottles.

 

[DilsmackDude]

ok thanks for your help. If I opened a bottle now and took a reading would that tell me anything? or do I need an OG reading in order for this reading to be useful?

 

[JF_HBrews]

It will not tell you everything but it would tell you something to take a reading now. For example, if you have a beer that began with a 1.050 OG and should finish at, say, 1.012 and your hydrometer reading today is at about 1.050 you would be certain that there wasn't any fermentation. You could go back to your recipe and get the expected OG and FG's and plug these numbers in for the hypothetical 1.050 and 1.012 I used.

 

[DilsmackDude]

Great, thank you for your help. unfortunately I don't have a recipe. Both of these batches I had problems with were just ideas from the homebrew store guy mixed with my own knowledge of extract brewing. maybe this should tell me to stick to recipes for a while longer before I try my own again. This brings me to one more question I have. I've been reading up on adjuncts since this problem of mine, and it looks like they are never to be steeped, only mashed (just like one of you mentioned). Except for roasted barley. But my homebrew store guy said I should steep flaked wheat before brewing with wheat DME, in order to make a solid wheat beer. I thought I just read that wheat is another adjunct, would I be on the road to a bad beer again if I do this?

 

[WileECoyote]

Hello, How long have your bottles been carbing up?

Just a FYI 3 weeks @ 70 deg is a minimum for a beer to properly carb up, beers higher in gravity and or adjuncts can take quite a bit longer.

Also once your beer has finished carbing it requires the proper amount of time in the fridge before being opened, about 3 days is the proper amount of time it take for all the co2 in the headspace of the bottle to be absorbed into solution.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

 

[DilsmackDude]

Well it had been sitting for more than 2 weeks. But now it has been sitting for 2 months roughly. And I opened one the other day and found it had finally carbonated! So maybe I'm just impatient. But after all was done it had tooo much carbonation and tasted not so good, like champangne almost. I think you were right about the adjuncts, they didnt stop it from carbonating but just made it take much longer. Any idea why it tastes sort of cidery or like champagne?

 

[Yooper]

Well it had been sitting for more than 2 weeks. But now it has been sitting for 2 months roughly. And I opened one the other day and found it had finally carbonated! So maybe I'm just impatient. But after all was done it had tooo much carbonation and tasted not so good, like champangne almost. I think you were right about the adjuncts, they didnt stop it from carbonating but just made it take much longer. Any idea why it tastes sort of cidery or like champagne?

It's probably recipe related, as flaked grains will leave starch in the beer and not fermentable sugars, but flaked corn rice will create a much thinner and drier beer. I think the "cidery" or over bubbly flavor can be attributed to not having enough malt in the beer once it carbed up.

I"d follow a good recipe for the next batch, and it'll be much better!

 

[DilsmackDude]

Yeah you're probably very right. I guess i have a lot to learn before I try my own stuff. Well to the books I'll go I guess.

 

[WileECoyote]

you can pour the beer a little harder than you would normally pour other beers, this will allow more of the co2 to be released, let it sit for a min after the hard pour, I find this helps with the co2 bite and lets the beer taste come through.

Cheers

 

[rlmiller10]

Well it had been sitting for more than 2 weeks. But now it has been sitting for 2 months roughly. And I opened one the other day and found it had finally carbonated! So maybe I'm just impatient. But after all was done it had tooo much carbonation and tasted not so good, like champangne almost. I think you were right about the adjuncts, they didnt stop it from carbonating but just made it take much longer. Any idea why it tastes sort of cidery or like champagne?

You are probably tasting esters from using lager yeast at ale temperatures.