first time 'yeast rancher' evaluate my process and give me feedback?

[boswell]

So, picked up my first vial of White Labs on a whim, the Super San Diego. Being on the expensive side, I want to get as much reliable use as possible. Did a lot of reading, came up with this plan. Help me evaluate my process.

Short version is this, made a gallon of 1.040ish wort with light DME. Cooled to 70ish, pitched the vial. Its doing its thing vigorously now. When its done I plan on agitating the yeast into suspension, dividing up the yeasty wort among 10, 12oz bottles with a little corn sugar (read 3/4 tblsp), capping and immediately putting into the fridge. Day or two before brewing, take a bottle out and make a 1-2 litre starter depending upon SG of beer being brewed. When I get to last bottle or two, pitch it into another gallon of wort, ferment out and start the process over again therby creating Generation 2. I've read, 4-5 generations are possible, thereby creating, ideally, 40-50 batches from a single vial.

This seem like a sound practice? Taking into account sound sanitation practices, wort handling, temps etc? I'm cheap, but also interested in getting into yeast handling, and this seems, although it takes more time, a more sound process than washing, and I'm not ready for slants or petri dishes yet.

 

[1Mainebrew]

I love building up yeast from a starter. I usually use mason jars so you can degas the co2, but sanitized bottles should work too. Have fun saving some money!

 

[Clementine]

I have a couple of thoughts on your process, firstly, what you are doing is all the hard work of freezing yeast without adding the glycerin and freezing it.

I'm not sure of the effect of storing the yeast under pressure, ie how much pressure will be in the bottle and is this going to effect the health of the yeast.

The idea of slanting and freezing is you don't have to generate large numbers of yeast as the yeast will survive very well in it stored form and hence you don't count the generations as you have not multiplied the yeast or stressed them enough to call it a generation.

Read this and you will see if you just add some glycerin to your yeast throw it in the freezer you will have much better

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/d...tarter-then-why-not-farm-yeast-freeze-269488/

On Sanitation side of things, when you are building up yeast in stages it is most critical that you maintain good sanitation and sterilize where possible as you may eventually end up with a population of unwanted microbes building up in your yeast.

Equipment no matter how you make your yeast the best two things for yeast culturing is a pressure cooker (poor mans autoclave) and stir plate. The stir plate give you large numbers of yeast for the same volume of wort used through better aeration and so there is less anaerobic work done by the yeast causing less stress. Pressure cookers are normally only about $40 and stir plates are free or the cost of an old computer (fan and hard drive). Arguably the best yeast investment you can make

Which ever route you take, making your own yeast is fun and a huge cost saving also I find the yeast is fresher and much more effective.

Clem

 

[boswell]

Stir plate is next investment (time/money), I only upgrade in small calculated steps, and after a lot of reading, seems like it is worth the effort. Previously, I was under the assumption it was just a cool 'lab-looking' toy people were using, after checking the data, seems like it is very useful, lots of growth in less time.

I appreciate the input, this is my first foray into yeast ranching, so I'm attacking it from a very caveman-reason point of view, so at least my line of thinking being confirmed shows me I'm not a total dummy.

 

[skeaterbait]

I appreciate the input, this is my first foray into yeast ranching, so I'm attacking it from a very caveman-reason point of view, so at least my line of thinking being confirmed shows me I'm not a total dummy.

I need more "caveman" type posts to read. I especially like the ones with no math.

 

[barhoc11]

Are you washing the yeast at all before putting it into the jars? I ask because if you don't you will have a solution of beer (on top) and yeast (on bottom) which could result in continued fermentation, even at lower temperatures. This is the reason I thought it was best to wash the yeast to remove that beer.

I have only washed yeast from a carboy after I had racked my beer out so this method might actually be easier since it avoids all the trub. has anyone else done this and can provide their results?

 

[Mcsuck]

I'm going to second the suggestion of freezing down your strains with glycerol. You'll have a small easy to store library of all the yeast you've ever used and it can last (depending on your quality of freezer) nearly a lifetime. Big money saver for just a little bit of work.

 

[boswell]

Barhoc, this has been done by a lot of folks, I just dumbed it down for my personal tastes. When this method works out for a bit, I'll move to making slants, but for my methods now, this works out perfectly for me. If you do try this, once the starter wort has cooled, decant off of the hot break trub, there isn't a lot of it due to short boil and no hops, but there will be a little. There is no reason to wash this yeast if you get the 'gunk' out before fermentation. The hardest part of this process is explaining to my buddy not to drink the ten 'beers' in the fridge.

 

[barhoc11]

Thanks for the response, so is your basic process:

1) Make starter with purchased yeast
2) Let starter ferment until complete
3) Swirl yeast into wort solution
4) Divide solution into containers (why add sugar?)
5) Refrigerate

I figured you would have to add some distilled water to get enough solution to fill up 10 containers, unless you are using a very large flask?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

To the OP. I also reccommend that you freeze the yeast instead of just refridgerating. As mentioned above, freezing it will be about the same amount of work, it will last a lot longer and you will have to reculture less often. However, I see no reason why your plan can't work. A couple things though. I wouldn't add any priming sugar, that is completely unneccessary. I think the recommendation for using mason jars instead of bottles is a good one as you can vent residual pressure periodically this way. I think I remember reading somewhere that yeast stores better in plain water than it does leaving it in the starter beer. Someone please correct me if I'm worng. So as mentioned above, you may be better off washing the yeast before storing it. Also, keep in mind that eventually contamination will set in if you repeatedly reculture from your last couple bottles. Once you detect any kind of contamination, ditch all remaining bottles and start over from a fresh vial.

 

[blkandrust]

I do this same process,minus the corn sugar. Works well. I have even made 2 generations out of a single smack pack.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

No need to add priming sugar. Let it ferment out, put it in sanitized containers, and put it in the fridge. I've detailed my procedure in this thread: Yeast harvesting - a non-slant method.

Of course there's more than one way to skin a cat.

M_C

 

[barhoc11]

I think everyone else has confirmed that you should try to store the yeast with as little 'beer' as possible and that you don't need corn sugar. My only question to the OP is... how are you filling 10 12oz bottles? I have never seen a starter 120 ounces, that is pretty big, how are you doing it?

 

[boswell]

This is where I got my basic method:
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20030128212525422

I get ten bottles because I made a gallon starter.
I am unsure why the method includes bottle priming, I assumed (caveman) that the yeast would do a little work and each bottle would have a co2 blanket on top of the 'beer'. This is just an adaptation of different methods, and this seems logical. I will move to slants once I have more of a grasp on strains I would like to keep around.
I don't understand the post above saying that infection is inevitable, seems if sanitary practices are used there should be little chance (not impossible) of infection.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

This is where I got my basic method:
Bodensatz Brewing - Yeast Culture for Dummies

I get ten bottles because I made a gallon starter.
I am unsure why the method includes bottle priming, I assumed (caveman) that the yeast would do a little work and each bottle would have a co2 blanket on top of the 'beer'. This is just an adaptation of different methods, and this seems logical. I will move to slants once I have more of a grasp on strains I would like to keep around.
I don't understand the post above saying that infection is inevitable, seems if sanitary practices are used there should be little chance (not impossible) of infection.

The thing about having sugar present is that it may cause the yeast to become active again, even at lower temperatures. You want to the yeast to complete thier life cycle, build up reserves, go dormant and stay dormant until you are ready to use them again. As for contamination, unless you sterilze everything that comes into contact with the wort, you risk eventual contamination. There is a big difference between sterilizing and sanitizing. Also, there will be a lot of transfers that take place as you make new starters, bottle up more yeast, make more starters etc. Every transfer leaves you open to more and more contamination. If you are very careful, you should be able to go for quite some time without any problems, but not indefinitely. If you are serious about wanting to maintain yeast for the long term, you need to isolate a pure colony once in a while with a streak plate to weed out any contamination before growing up your next batch of usable yeast.

 

[huge1s]

Why not just consolidate all your yeast into 1 mason jar instead of 10 bottles? A lot less storage. I tried yeast washing for the first time a couple months ago and now have a single mason jar that is half yeast cake (it has compacted down over the months... it used to be 3/4). When you need the yeast... give it a swirl and pour out as much as you need. I suppose the only downside to this is that if the jar gets infected.... all your yeast are toast.

 

[boswell]

I like having the ten bottles, mainly because when I want to brew I pull one out a few days before, make a starter.

Regarding infection, I realize it is highly possible, but I feel like I am 'clean' enough that I will at least get thirty or more uses from a single vial, which in my eyes is more than enough. As I mentioned, once I've famiiarized my self with a wider variety of yeasts, then I will start a slant library.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I like having the ten bottles, mainly because when I want to brew I pull one out a few days before, make a starter.

Regarding infection, I realize it is highly possible, but I feel like I am 'clean' enough that I will at least get thirty or more uses from a single vial, which in my eyes is more than enough. As I mentioned, once I've famiiarized my self with a wider variety of yeasts, then I will start a slant library.

Take a "divide and conquer" approach and make 5 or 10 or however many starters from your original yeast. This way you go down fewer generations.

M_C

 

[barhoc11]

Take a "divide and conquer" approach and make 5 or 10 or however many starters from your original yeast. This way you go down fewer generations.

M_C

Can you explain that better? Are you saying to take the yeast from the initial starter rather than the yeast in primary?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Can you explain that better? Are you saying to take the yeast from the initial starter rather than the yeast in primary?

Yes. You can refer to my write-up here.

MC

 

[barhoc11]

Yes. You can refer to my write-up here.

MC

How many separate containers do you get out of a growler? I am guessing 5?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

How many separate containers do you get out of a growler? I am guessing 5?

There really isn't a limit, however you have to keep in mind how long it will be before you finish the first set of vials and go on to the 2nd generation. If you're at the one year mark, you may possibly get some problems getting the yeast going again (due to low live yeast cell count).

I normally do 5 vials for a yeast that I use often.

MC

 

[boswell]

DO NOT PRIME THESE BOTTLES IF YOU TRY THIS METHOD!

Although I had seen sources that said to prime these bottles, the earlier poster was correct, the yeast continued to work in the bottles even at 38 degrees and while preparing to make a starter today the bottles that were opened gushed and blew out with such force it scared the bejesus out of me. In the future, I will try this process again but with no bottle priming at all. I nearly pooped myself when one bottle sounded like an air rifle when I opened it.