First time with 55 gal barrel fermenter

[scott.campion]

My neighbor and I got access to a press this year so decided to step up our game from 5-gallon carboys to a 55-gallon plastic barrel (plus a few carboys on the side). Any tips or landmines I should watch out for?

My first concern is whether to rack. Previously I've racked the cider off the lees after about 3 weeks, then aged in the carboy for another month or three before bottling (with great results). With the barrel I'm concerned about the increased head space (I've got 50 gallons in the 55-gallon barrel) and surface area. If I rack it I'm starting over with my air, and worried the ongoing fermentation may not generate enough CO2 to drive the O2 out of ~7 gallons of head space.

	Pros	Cons
Rack then age	Gets it off the lees Flavor and clarity benefits of aging	Increased chance of oxygen/spoilage? Need a second barrel Extra step/cleaning/work
Age in fermentor	Flavor and clarity benefits of aging Less chance of oxygen/spoilage	Will sit on the lees for a few months
Just bottle it now	Gets it off the lees Least chance of oxygen/spoilage	Possibly slightly less complete fermentation May lose flavor and clarity benefits of aging One less step/cleaning/work

 

[ncguire]

I don't have any barrel experience myself, but I say just leave it in the barrel. Unless you have an infection or it smells really bad, I don't think there is anything wrong with leaving on the lees for several months up to a year. It may actually give the cider a better mouthfeel, look up sur lie aging.

In fact, last year I actually bottled some of my lees (but not the really slimy stuff that sticks on the bottom). Thinking I could try using it for cooking instead of just pouring it down the drain. 8 months later I was still using the bottles, which had a crystal clear cider on top and a bunch of sediment on the bottom. Cider on top smelled fine and tasted just as good as the rest of the cider I bottled normally.

 

[AzOr]

My advice would be to ferment in the plastic bucket and then rack to glass, quickly.
Obviously that’s a lot of Carboys but you could use cornys as well.
I have used a 30gal plastic bucket once and I started to develop a pellicle a few weeks after fermentation was done.

I immediately racked into 5 Carboys and dosed w campden. They ended up fine but I would never leave my cider in plastic for long. Too many ways for O2 to seep in.
I suppose you could package into bottles for aging as well.

My normal process is to ferment in plastic for about 2-4 weeks, then age in carboys.
I intentionally pick up a fair amount of lees when racking. I then let the cider sit in glass for up to a year.

 

[ncguire]

My advice would be to ferment in the plastic bucket and then rack to glass, quickly.
Obviously that’s a lot of Carboys but you could use cornys as well.
I have used a 30gal plastic bucket once and I started to develop a pellicle a few weeks after fermentation was done.

I immediately racked into 5 Carboys and dosed w campden. They ended up fine but I would never leave my cider in plastic for long. Too many ways for O2 to seep in.
I suppose you could package into bottles for aging as well.

My normal process is to ferment in plastic for about 2-4 weeks, then age in carboys.
I intentionally pick up a fair amount of lees when racking. I then let the cider sit in glass for up to a year.

This is a good point and I didn't even think about that at first. If you are using a bucket or a plastic drum not necessarily designed for fermentation, it may not be a good idea to leave the cider in there too long after fermentation is complete because they may not seal well and allow too much oxygen to get in. But I think the design also plays a factor. Other plastic barrel type vessels, like Speidels, can seal better (so they say, never used one) and will keep more air out. Plastic, like wooden barrels, do allow micro-oxygenation. Sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes not so good. YMMV.

 

[scott.campion]

Super helpful @AzOr and @ncguire.

Curious about your oxygen incursion point. Is this about not having an airtight seal, or about it actually getting in through the plastic walls? It's a thick, food-grade barrel I got from a dairy plant. I've got a fermentation lock in the barrel, and can just go overboard on sealing the bungs.

 

[AzOr]

I can send a pic later today after work. I used a food grade 25 or 30 gallon plastic barrel with a lid that has a runner gasket. At one pint there was a sticker on the side. IIRC it held syrup.

It currently is being used to store emergency drinking water.

 

[AzOr]

This is what I’ve used several times. I drilled a hole in top to put in an airlock.

 

[AzOr]

Speaking of oxygen ingress, I’ve had horrible luck with those carboy caps that have the two ports. I e had two batches go bad over the last several years and I’m pretty sure they were the culprit.

I use those rubber bungs, and they seem to do a good job.

 

[ncguire]

Super helpful @AzOr and @ncguire.

Curious about your oxygen incursion point. Is this about not having an airtight seal, or about it actually getting in through the plastic walls? It's a thick, food-grade barrel I got from a dairy plant. I've got a fermentation lock in the barrel, and can just go overboard on sealing the bungs.

I would be concerned about both. Airtight seal is a big one. Just looking at AzOr's picture, how well do those lids really work?

The other concern is probably not as big a deal, but see here: Oxygen permeability of HDPE as there is some oxygen permeability to plastic. So if you are only aging a short time it may not even make a difference, but aging long term, it could. In some cases people want their wines to "breathe" so they may use wooden barrels (or plastic) for aging. Other times it's a bad thing, and some people swear by glass or stainless steel. I don't have enough experience myself to say how it effects cider, so take with a grain of salt.

 

[AzOr]

The lids seem to work very well. My concern when using these is the permeability of the plastic.

That being said, I still favor plastic buckets when fermenting cider or mead. Just be diligent about racking when terminal gravity has been reached ( or slightly before). I’m also a fan of aging on the fine lees.
They are the easiest fermenters to clean etc.

I own two anvil stainless fermenters that work great, but I usually keep them open for beer.

 

[AzOr]

As you can see this cider is 18 months and crystal clear. It’s been on fine lees the whole time, except for primary fermentation.

 

[gregbathurst]

I ferment in 55 gal plastic barrels, they are fairly common for cider making. There are 2 types, ones with two 2 inch openings, and barrels where the whole top comes off. The small openings are much easier to seal but harder to clean the barrels. You need to fill barrels completely, minimal headspace. They allow some oxygen through the walls but as long as you have minimal headspace it isn't an issue.