First Time bottling, broken bottles

[WhiskeyR]

I just got through bottling my first brew today after over three weeks of fermenting and I had some bottles break while crimping the caps with the butterfly capper that came with my kit.

I lost about 10 bottles. A couple more "felt" like they had broken but show no visible cracks and did not break off. I fear these ones might turn into bottle bombs.

Instead of purchasing bottles, I used Abita Amber bottles, which seemed to be pretty thick and well suited to the task. I guess not.

My questions are: Is the problem the bottles themselves, or my technique? I was pretty gentle I felt.

The ones that felt like they might have broken but didn't - can I expect bottle bombs from those?

I did end up with about 40 still and I'm looking forward to trying my new brew in a few weeks. Thanks everyone.

 

[jonmohno]

Ive only had a problem with the twist cap tops. I capped a few and didnt realize it but they were twist cap tops that i broke trying to cap.It sucked having to dump a few beers. I just return the empties or dont buy any of these type of beers to bottle with.

 

[WhiskeyR]

These weren't twist caps, fwiw. The capper does grip the bottle with metal instead of plastic, could this be the problem?

 

[drkaeppel]

It's the bottles.
I have trouble with Abita bottles as well as Anchor bottles...and I think I have it figured out so I'll try and explain.
There's a top lip where the bottle cap crimps onto. Then on most bottles, there is another rim or flange (whatever you want to call it) just below the top lip.
When you are capping, your bottle capper grabs onto that bottom lip/ flange as leverage to press the cap on. I have found that bottles with a larger or more pronounced flanged are easier to cap. Abita and Anchor bottles have almost no flange at all, so I end up pressing down really hard and breaking the bottle about 50% of the time.

Hope this helps.

 

[jonmohno]

I dont know about that one i have the red barron and i know sometimes it seems i could brake one if i really crimpt down and put force on it, you shouldnt have to do this if this may be the problem?
I also dont think you should worry about the ones you crimped that felt weak beause if you did damage them i would think they would only snap and not burst if they couldnt hold,but this is just what i think
sounds like its those bottles type.If that is your beer to drink that sucks but most of the craft beers i have drank havent given me any problems, and there are plenty of craft beers out there.

 

[maffewl]

I would say the metal against the glass isn't helping matters. Might try to fold some paper towels, or place a rag between the metal and the glass bottle to see if that helps. If so, you can run to hobby lobby or wal-mart and pick up a sheet of foam used in scrap-booking and cut it to fit your needs. Then just glue it to your capper. If that isn't the problem, my best guess would be the bottles you were using weren't suitable to be recapped.

 

[WhiskeyR]

It's the bottles.
I have trouble with Abita bottles as well as Anchor bottles...and I think I have it figured out so I'll try and explain.
There's a top lip where the bottle cap crimps onto. Then on most bottles, there is another rim or flange (whatever you want to call it) just below the top lip.
When you are capping, your bottle capper grabs onto that bottom lip/ flange as leverage to press the cap on. I have found that bottles with a larger or more pronounced flanged are easier to cap. Abita and Anchor bottles have almost no flange at all, so I end up pressing down really hard and breaking the bottle about 50% of the time.

Hope this helps.

That's very helpful. I was hoping someone who has specifically used Abita bottles would reply. Next time I'll buy bottles from my LHBS. I would have this time, but the damn things aren't pre filled with beer....

 

[drkaeppel]

That's very helpful. I was hoping someone who has specifically used Abita bottles would reply. Next time I'll buy bottles from my LHBS. I would have this time, but the damn things aren't pre filled with beer....

I know what you mean. Usually I go with the pre-filled ones from the store. It's just been trial and error figuring out which ones work. Most of them work fine for bottling (minus the ones I mentioned) as long as they arent twist offs.

Good luck!

 

[Yooper]

That's very helpful. I was hoping someone who has specifically used Abita bottles would reply. Next time I'll buy bottles from my LHBS. I would have this time, but the damn things aren't pre filled with beer....

Sam Adams bottles work perfectly!

So do Dogfish Head (and the labels are easy to get off) and New Belgium bottles.

 

[pelipen]

I read about a lot of broken bottles with wing cappers when I was building my kit to start brewing. So, I bought an old stand capper from the 50's off ebay for $10 shipped.
I've done about 90 bottles with it and haven't had a problem yet. Might be worth looking into.

 

[WhiskeyR]

Sam Adams bottles work perfectly!

So do Dogfish Head (and the labels are easy to get off) and New Belgium bottles.

Thanks for the recommendations!

 

[WhiskeyR]

I read about a lot of broken bottles with wing cappers when I was building my kit to start brewing. So, I bought an old stand capper from the 50's off ebay for $10 shipped.
I've done about 90 bottles with it and haven't had a problem yet. Might be worth looking into.

I'll keep my eye out. I don't mind buying better equipment as I progress at this, certainly worth not wasting beer! $10 is a helluva deal.

 

[Smokeater233]

Metal on glass is not the problem. As everyone else has stated it's likely the bottles themselves. You don't need that much force to cap these things though...so keep your pressure on the capper in check. As for the bottles you think you may have cracked - I'd store those in a separate box with some towels. They may not be bombs at all, but if they have any stress fractures in them the glass naturally won't be as strong...

 

[cheffriz]

Sam Adams bottles work perfectly!

So do Dogfish Head (and the labels are easy to get off) and New Belgium bottles.

I have used these as well, also never had a problem with Saranac or Harpoon bottles.

 

[flabyboy]

Also try Widmer Brothers, O'Dell and Guinness bottles. Go get some Drifter Pale Ale. Yum

 

[jonmohno]

While your at it get some Bells, Two Brothers, Avery,tommyknockers,smuttynose,shipyard,medicino,Darkhorse,GooseIsland,or braubrothers....

 

[ChandlerBang]

Amber Bock. That is most of my stash. I haven't had any issues with my wing capper on those. That said, I think it is easy to put too much DOWN pressure while capping. I try to push in while pushing down. Does that make sense? When I'm done capping the bottle, I could pick it straight up by the capper. Hope you have better luck next time.

 

[topend]

I have found that a stand capper is worth the investment over the wing capper. Very stable.

I like using Sam Adams, New Belgium, Anchor Steam, Goose Island, Hoegarden, and many others. At this point I don't buy a beer unless I can reuse the bottles.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[Pilgarlic]

I use a wing capper on a wide variety of bottles and have never had a broken bottle.

 

[burninmules]

I agree that a bench capper will save on broken bottles. They run about $35 new.

 

[C-Rider]

That's very helpful. I was hoping someone who has specifically used Abita bottles would reply. Next time I'll buy bottles from my LHBS. I would have this time, but the damn things aren't pre filled with beer....

Or go down to your local bar and offer them twice the recycling fee for Non-Twist bottles. I get mine for $3 a case like that.

 

[WhiskeyR]

Metal on glass is not the problem. As everyone else has stated it's likely the bottles themselves. You don't need that much force to cap these things though...so keep your pressure on the capper in check. As for the bottles you think you may have cracked - I'd store those in a separate box with some towels. They may not be bombs at all, but if they have any stress fractures in them the glass naturally won't be as strong...

Thanks. I wish I had separated those out, now there's no telling which ones they were until the tops fly off. Hopefully they won't make a mess.

 

[cmw6300]

...At this point I don't buy a beer unless I can reuse the bottles.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

I am a firm believer in this as well!!

 

[unionrdr]

I use my Red Baron wing capper on Paulaner Salvator doppel bock & Hefeweitzen bottles & Michelob amber bocks with no problems. Not to mention rogue,Smuttynose,& other craft beer bottles. I also like the fact that the Paulaner bottles have the busts of bearded monks around the shoulder of the bottles,& are more of an amber colored glass.
But the wing capper was cheaper than the good bench style,which was $70. The cheaper ones are said to have a plastic pin that bends/tears off easy.

 

[heyjaffy]

I just got through bottling my first brew today after over three weeks of fermenting and I had some bottles break while crimping the caps with the butterfly capper that came with my kit.

I lost about 10 bottles. A couple more "felt" like they had broken but show no visible cracks and did not break off. I fear these ones might turn into bottle bombs.

Instead of purchasing bottles, I used Abita Amber bottles, which seemed to be pretty thick and well suited to the task. I guess not.

My questions are: Is the problem the bottles themselves, or my technique? I was pretty gentle I felt.

The ones that felt like they might have broken but didn't - can I expect bottle bombs from those?

I did end up with about 40 still and I'm looking forward to trying my new brew in a few weeks. Thanks everyone.

I had the exact same problem first time I bottled with abita bottles, well, tried to. Dos Equis bottles also broke. It's a problem with the depth of the lip of the bottle and the clamping force of the capper. Bottles with a short depth lip (like abita) allow you to exert too much upward pressure on the neck vs. Those with a longer depth top lip. You have max leverage when the arms are approaching a 90 degree angle when crimping a cap on. With a long depth top lip you are engaging the cap before reaching that 90 degree angle, thus some of the clamping energy is exerted on the cap. With the short depth lip, you are still putting a majority of clamping force, upward, on the lip at them 90 degree angle before engaging the cap to crimp.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

Amber Bock. That is most of my stash. I haven't had any issues with my wing capper on those. That said, I think it is easy to put too much DOWN pressure while capping. I try to push in while pushing down. Does that make sense? When I'm done capping the bottle, I could pick it straight up by the capper. Hope you have better luck next time.

THIS

You should not really be pushing down at all with a wing capper. Hold the capper in your hands in front of you and just work the motion a few times. You should notice that the capping motion uses no down force at all, it actually uses a slight up force with your wrist. Chandler had the perfect description, you really are almost lifting the bottle. Half of the time I actually do lift the bottle while capping, so I put a towel down underneath the bottle so it doesn't smack back down on the table.

Before I learned this I probably broke 1/12.
After learning this I am 300+ without breaking one.

 

[heyjaffy]

THIS

You should not really be pushing down at all with a wing capper. Hold the capper in your hands in front of you and just work the motion a few times. You should notice that the capping motion uses no down force at all, it actually uses a slight up force with your wrist. Chandler had the perfect description, you really are almost lifting the bottle. Half of the time I actually do lift the bottle while capping, so I put a towel down underneath the bottle so it doesn't smack back down on the table.

Before I learned this I probably broke 1/12.
After learning this I am 300+ without breaking one.

See my response above - the breakage that I experienced with Abita bottles was not because of excessive downward force, it's excessive upward force. The lip on some bottles, including Abita, is shorter, such that the capper does not start to grab until you are at the point of maximum leverage where the most upward force is being exerted underneath the lip. On bottles with a deeper lip, the dome of the capper starts to engage the cap before you get to that maximum leverage point.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I have used a wing capper with guiness and Sierra Nevada bottles with no issues.
Perhaps a moderator will generate a sticky with the list of bottles that do (or don't) work. I do not buy beer unless its in a pry-off bottle.

 

[WhiskeyR]

I had the exact same problem first time I bottled with abita bottles, well, tried to. Dos Equis bottles also broke. It's a problem with the depth of the lip of the bottle and the clamping force of the capper. Bottles with a short depth lip (like abita) allow you to exert too much upward pressure on the neck vs. Those with a longer depth top lip. You have max leverage when the arms are approaching a 90 degree angle when crimping a cap on. With a long depth top lip you are engaging the cap before reaching that 90 degree angle, thus some of the clamping energy is exerted on the cap. With the short depth lip, you are still putting a majority of clamping force, upward, on the lip at them 90 degree angle before engaging the cap to crimp.

Excellent explanation. This thread has been really helpful... so far this is the only snag I've hit in doing my first home brew and it was rather discouraging. But knowing I simply need different bottles makes looking ahead to the next brew much better.

 

[WhiskeyR]

THIS

You should not really be pushing down at all with a wing capper. Hold the capper in your hands in front of you and just work the motion a few times. You should notice that the capping motion uses no down force at all, it actually uses a slight up force with your wrist. Chandler had the perfect description, you really are almost lifting the bottle. Half of the time I actually do lift the bottle while capping, so I put a towel down underneath the bottle so it doesn't smack back down on the table.

Before I learned this I probably broke 1/12.
After learning this I am 300+ without breaking one.

Thanks. It did not seem like I was using much or any downward pressure at all (I'm pretty good at "feeling" how things go), but that may not be the case and I'll keep your comments in mind next time to help avoid issues.

 

[zilch]

MGD and Corona bottles have broken on me on occasion with a wing capper. These bottles seem to have thin glass, especially at the neck. I agree with what the others said above with too much downward pressure - I believe that was my issue.

 

[unionrdr]

After thinking about the actual motion used,I came to the conclusion that pulling the handles is more of a downward arc. Down & in at the same time,as it were with the wing style capper.
In my case,the LHBS had the Red Baron,the black wing capper (forget name),& several bench cappers. He said the Red Baron was the easier of the two wing cappers to use. The black one looked like a sort of cantilever set up.

 

[troub]

See my response above - the breakage that I experienced with Abita bottles was not because of excessive downward force, it's excessive upward force. The lip on some bottles, including Abita, is shorter, such that the capper does not start to grab until you are at the point of maximum leverage where the most upward force is being exerted underneath the lip. On bottles with a deeper lip, the dome of the capper starts to engage the cap before you get to that maximum leverage point.

Obviously I can't say for sure what you're doing: but I would note that yes, the part that clamps around the neck sort of lifts up against the collar of the bottle and pushes the bottle up into the bell of the capper, which forces the cap down around the lip. In addition to unnecessary downward pressure, it seems like a lot of people tend to push too far or hard on the wings -- you're talking about "maximum leverage" points on the capper which is largely irrelevant. It doesn't take that much force or leverage, period, to crimp the cap down. When I push the wings down on my capper, there's a point where I feel a slight "hitch," it gets a bit tougher. Push just a *little* more and that's it. Any further and yes, you're putting too much pressure on the neck. For most bottles this is somewhere just before the wings reach 90 degrees, or perpendicular to the bottle. I just got finished bottling into a lot of Abita bottles, and I think Founder's bottles are the same way too. I have a lot of these short-collared bottles around. Instead of the large tapered collar around the top of the neck, they just have a little bump. All I do for these bottles is place the cap on top, then rather than place the bell on the cap and start squeezing, I sort of hover the capper just above the cap and *gently* bring the wings down -- it'll engage when it's ready and lift the bottle up into the cap. A bit more squeeze and it's done.

With these types of necks I have had some unpleasantness when I set the capper bell down on the cap to start with because when the clamp closes around the neck, it does sometimes seem like the neck is slightly too big around for the clamp and I can feel the metal squeezing or scraping the glass. So by starting by "hovering" above the cap, when the clamp closes it closes around a slimmer part of the tapered neck and doesn't hit glass until it gets to the collar to lift it, which is what is normally desired.

 

[Whut]

I must say that I never broke a bottle with my wing capper, but I do love my bench capper. Bells, Kona, Sierra, DFH, all cap great!

Since this photo I've re-mounted it on a small old table we had in a closet. Now I can cap either in the kitchen or the garage (depending on the time of year).

Trace

 

[unionrdr]

I had an odd problem with a couple of the craft bottles when capping. I put the cap on,capper in place,start pulling the handles. It seems like the bell is slipping down too far to crimp the cap properly. The capper gets stuck on the bottom edge of the crimped cap.
I already had the labels off,etc. So I don't know who's bottles they were...?

 

[beeber]

+1 for the bench capper. Have not mutilated a single bottle with the bench capper.

 

[TheMan]

I've only used a wing capper...never broke a bottle...ease up there Hulk.

 

[C-Rider]

Maybe we need a sticky listing all the bottles that can't be capped. I know that Czech Pilsner can't as it has only one lip. Same for one of the Mexican stubbies, can't remember the name though. Had some trouble w/Stella's also but most went ok.

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe we need a sticky listing all the bottles that can't be capped. I know that Czech Pilsner can't as it has only one lip. Same for one of the Mexican stubbies, can't remember the name though. Had some trouble w/Stella's also but most went ok.

This does sound like a good idea to me too. Paulaner,Michelob amber bock's,& most craft beer bottles all work great for me. Got some 61 bottles boxed up for 3 weeks this Sunday,dry as a bone. Can't remember all the craft ones,but here's a few;Rogue,Smuttynose,Great Lakes,Brooklyn,Sam Adams...

 

[WhiskeyR]

I've only used a wing capper...never broke a bottle...ease up there Hulk.

I think that based on the responses in this thread, its not a matter of being too aggressive...