First Sour Beer - wisdom sought

[kurzschluss1]

I'm about to brew my first sour beer: a Gose. I've only brewed two brewers best extract kits up to now so I'm kind of a beginner.

Someone gave me an extract recipe that uses both brett and Lactobacillus. apparently I add both with the weihestephan ale yeast at fermentation time. Otherwise it sounds like a very standard recipe with no additional steps or precautions to follow (besides adding salt and coriander).

I'm new to this. Should this really be a easy as it sounds?

 

[Weezy]

I'm getting ready to start a long term sour project also. I'm a newb to the style but I have a plan. One method that some use is to ferm on ale yeast and when it gets mostly done (1.015-1.02) cold crash it and rack it off most of the yeast, then add the Brett and bugs to finish it and dry it out. You can just pitch it all together, but doing it separately allows you to rack to separate secondaries...one for bugs and one for no bugs. Then in 6 months or a year, you can blend the two batches together, base don taste.

hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

[edited for typos and clarification]

 

[billl]

How did the first 2 beers come out? Personally, I'd knock out a few more "quick turnaround" brews before I started a sour. Generally, you are going to have to commit many months of fermenter space for a sour to develop.

 

[kurzschluss1]

One method that some use is to ferm on ale yeast and when it gets mostly do (1.015-1.02) crash and rack it off most of the yeast, then add the Brett and bugs to finish it and dry it out.

Thanks! Unfortunately, thanks to my inexperience here, I don't think I followed you very well:

So you are going to 1) start fermenting 5gal with ale yeast, 2) rack half to one secondary, 3) rack other half to another secondary and add brett and bugs, and 4) then in 6 mo. recombine for bottling?

And the advantage is that this keeps one of your secondary fermenters from being exposed to brett and bugs?

 

[kurzschluss1]

How did the first 2 beers come out? Personally, I'd knock out a few more "quick turnaround" brews before I started a sour. Generally, you are going to have to commit many months of fermenter space for a sour to develop.

I'm very satisfied, actually. Especially considering I'm a beginner. First was a Kolsch and second the Witbier. Neither is really ready for drinking yet but everything seemed to go *almost* exactly according to plan. And I've had fun!

I see your point, but really don't mind tying up a fermenter and some of my fermentation fridge space for this experiment. I foresee my brewing turning towards sours eventually anyway, so ESPECIALLY considering the long lead time I don't want to wait.

 

[Weezy]

The multiple secondaries relates to two things: (1) the ability to have multiple sources to blend together after aging to taste, and (2) my own inexperience dealing with brett/lacto/pedio. With multiples you can let the bugs rip and if its too sour or acidic, you can smooth it out with some of the unbugged jug. You can also oak one. Blending is a common practice with many sour styles. This is my plan: I have a 1 gallon oak barrel. I'll fill that w/o bugs, fill a 1 gallon carboy w/o bugs, then put 2.5 gallons with bugs in a 2.5 gallon plastic container. Let it all sit for year. This will all help with my inexperience too. If the barrel is over oaked after so long, I have the plain 1 gallon backup to blend with. Similarly, if the sour batch is too much, blend it out.

The biggest driver here is that I have zero idea how the bugs are going to perform. I've never used them. And I have zero idea how to stop them midstream if you taste test in 6 months and you like where it is. I think they just keep going until the food is gone.

 

[kurzschluss1]

The multiple secondaries relates to two things: (1) the ability to have multiple sources to blend together after aging to taste, and (2) my own inexperience dealing with brett/lacto/pedio. With multiples you can let the bugs rip and if its too sour or acidic, you can smooth it out with some of the unbugged jug. You can also oak one. Blending is a common practice with many sour styles. This is my plan: I have a 1 gallon oak barrel. I'll fill that w/o bugs, fill a 1 gallon carboy w/o bugs, then put 2.5 gallons with bugs in a 2.5 gallon plastic container. Let it all sit for year. This will all help with my inexperience too. If the barrel is over oaked after so long, I have the plain 1 gallon backup to blend with. Similarly, if the sour batch is too much, blend it out.

The biggest driver here is that I have zero idea how the bugs are going to perform. I've never used them. And I have zero idea how to stop them midstream if you taste test in 6 months and you like where it is. I think they just keep going until the food is gone.

Thanks for the explanation. You definitely got me thinking! I think your plan sounds good. My recipe is from Charlie Papazian and doesn't involve mixing or anything. According to it you put it in the primary for 10 days and then to secondary for 2 weeks and then bottle. But there's a warning that the bugs will continue to ferment in the bottle over a long period. of time and could explode so you're not supposed to wait too long to drink it. Maybe I'll take your idea and bottle some of it when he says so, and then reserve some in the secondary for cellaring for a longer time to see what comes out of it. I could mix it later with something else for a fun experiment.

 

[Weezy]

Beersmith has a informative podcast on sour beers. Definitely worth a listen. The Jamil Show has one covering a clone of a Jolly Pumpkin sour. The interview of Ron at Jolly Pumpkin is definitely worth a listen. Also go check out the websites for info and beer descriptions of sours (Jolly Pumpkin, Russian River, Lost Abby, Anchorage Brew Co, etc). And start check out the Madfermentalist blog. That sums up 95% of my knowledge on the subject. (I'd give links but I'm at happy hour typing from my phone one handed and beer in the other).

 

[Calder]

What is a gose? What are the salt and coriander for?

I've brewed a lot of sours. They are pretty easy, the two main things to them are patience and not opening the fermenter.

A decent traditional sour will take about a year. I recommend you get a sour mix from Wyeast or White labs and add some bottle dregs. You can add the dregs at any time. There are 2 ways of doing it (I'm sure there are many more).

1) ferment with normal yeast, rack after about a week (preferably before fermentation is complete so to rack over some yeast) and then pitch the sour mix. Leave in fermenter for about a year.

2) Pitch everything together and leave alone for a year.

It is hard to screw them up.

 

[Weezy]

Here's a decent reference to different types of sours.
http://99bottlesbeer.blogspot.com/2008/12/sour-ales.html?m=1