First Impression of Clear Beer Draught System (CBDS)

[Azura]

1. Doing things differently in the dry hop kegging process creates some briefly awkward moments that probably won't be awkward next time.

2. The common practice of filling the keg with sanitizer to purge it with CO2 had some issues. The minimum volume of sanitizer that is left in the keg is 3-6oz measured over 8 practice attempts UNLESS you invert the keg and try to blow the rest through the keg's blow hole.

3. Inverting the keg to do this created a lot of clanky metal on metal sounds that will certainly scuff the metals over time. I was not comfortable with this process. This makes filling the keg with sanitizer and pushing CO2 for the purpose of preparing a keg full of CO2 an unrealistic proposition filled with two kinds of compromise.

4. Instead, I chose to sanitize the keg. Dump the sanitizer. Fill the keg with CO2 @ 30psi. Purge and repeat 5x. Then the beer was transferred into the keg with 80% gravity and 20% CO2.

5. The results of this relatively new keg dry hop process will be explained in the next post.

6. Spoiler - as a default homebrew skeptic of new devices, the first impression pleasantly exceeded my exceptions in more ways than I could have hoped for.

 

[day_trippr]

Hopefully you'll explain what this actually means: "Then the beer was transferred into the keg with 80% gravity and 20% CO2."

Cheers!

 

[Azura]

Hopefully you'll explain what this actually means: "Then the beer was transferred into the keg with 80% gravity and 20% CO2."

Cheers!

This means the primary force of closed transfer was supplied by gravity and a CO2 infusion replaced the sealed primary fermenter void for the first 4 gallons. Then CO2 applied a 4psi force that enhanced gravity a little bit only because I lose patience during the last gallon. In terms of force, 80% gravity and 20% CO2 is a ballpark estimate. 5 gallons of beer were transferred in less than 15 minutes into the out port of a sealed keg. This was a little faster than the same method using a dip tube infusion.

 

[Azura]

The keg was dry hopped with 6oz of loose pellets for 4 days warm at 10psi. It was slow carbed at 15psi and 36F. Typically, this method takes 10-14 days before I can drink reasonably good looking and good tasting pours from the bottom.

I impatiently had three pints after 4 days which is something I wouldn't do with a dip tube unless there was a beer emergency. There was no reason to dump anything from the first pull because it wasn't a yeast slug. All three pints poured a full head. All of them were carbonated with a steady stream of bubbles rising from the bottom that lasted until the glass was empty. All of them were clear. The first pint contained a few specs of sub 300 micron hop material. The rest did not.

With a standard dip tube set up, the very early pours would have been very yeasty and barely carbonated. Not enjoyable. The CBDS allowed me to tap the keg very early without a penalty because slow carbonation starts at the top and eventually gets to bottom. The second round of three pints happened after 7 days of carbonation. They had the same characteristics as the 4 day old pints.

 

[Azura]

What about flavor and aroma? Since an A/B comparison was not possible, my observations might be off a bit. The beer was made with 80ibu of Cascade, Centennial and Comet. 55ibu was sourced from 15-0. No steep. Fast chill. Dry hop was 2oz of each hop.

It has more than enough grapefruit and orange flavor. I'm very happy with the taste, but it isn't significantly more flavorful than similar beers made without the CBDS. The loose dry hop did seem to provide a pleasant hop smack taste that my bagged dry hopped beers seem to provide less of. Free dry hopping directly in the primary produces a similar effect to free dry hopping in the keg.

I was expecting to be blown away by the aroma compared to bags in the keg. I wasn't blown away. The aroma is better than a lot of $10/6 IPAs. However, it isn't dramatically better than bags in the keg. It's probably a little better. It's definitely not worse.

I was able to borrow the CBDS from someone I barely know. Thanks, dude! Based on what I have observed, I will probably order one or two of them soon.

 

[bowman5150]

Love my clear beer drought system worth every penny

 

[jimmayhugh]

Love my clear beer drought system worth every penny

+1

I use the clear beer draft system in my sealed/pressurized sanke fermenter as well as all of my serving kegs. I use the optional filter screen and dry hop in the fermenter. I can pull samples anytime, and don't have to worry about getting yeast or hops in my liquid-out post.

 

[hezagenius]

When in the process did you add your dry hops?

 

[Azura]

The beer was transferred to a purged keg after 8 days of fermentation. The hops were added when the keg was 90% full.

 

[geekbleek]

How do you add hops to an already purged keg?

 

[hezagenius]

How do you add hops to an already purged keg?

If anyone figures it out, let me know. Only way I can think of would be to have some sort of chamber connected to the fermenter that you add hops to, seal it, flush it with CO2, then somehow dump it into the beer.

 

[goodolarchie]

Alright this last question is keeping me up at night. I also want to know how you can add a dry hop addition at a 90% full keg without exposing it to oxygen. Why not add the hops, purge the keg, transfer the beer? The hops shouldn't be negatively impacted by the purge, and they can safely rise with the beer until they absorb and suspend... maybe I'm nuts

 

[Iseneye]

Alright this last question is keeping me up at night. I also want to know how you can add a dry hop addition at a 90% full keg without exposing it to oxygen. Why not add the hops, purge the keg, transfer the beer? The hops shouldn't be negatively impacted by the purge, and they can safely rise with the beer until they absorb and suspend... maybe I'm nuts

This is specific to my setup but I have fermentor connected to receiving keg during fermentation with a spunding valve on keg. Receiving keg gets co2 purged from fermentation. I put keg hops in right at the start and rack onto that near end of fermentation then spund in keg using remaining gravity points.

 

[day_trippr]

^That's^ the way to do it. Effective and cheap. I need to come up with the plumbing on my ferm fridges to do this.
Trying to replicate that with a CO2 cylinder would be pricey, it takes a crap ton of purge gas to get even close to zero O2.

I expect the OP simply de-lidded the keg at the 90% full point, dumped in the hops, put the lid back in place, and ended the fill with a head-space purge or three and took the small O2 exposure hit. I mean, there isn't a lot of latitude given the hardware involved - the keg had to have been opened...

Cheers!

 

[hezagenius]

Alright this last question is keeping me up at night. I also want to know how you can add a dry hop addition at a 90% full keg without exposing it to oxygen. Why not add the hops, purge the keg, transfer the beer? The hops shouldn't be negatively impacted by the purge, and they can safely rise with the beer until they absorb and suspend... maybe I'm nuts

The problem with adding the hops first is that it would take a LOT of purge cycles, and hence CO2, to get the O2 concentration to a very low level. When adding hops to a keg post fermentation, there is no way to do it without introducing oxygen, at least not that I've found.

What I like to do is add hops into my fermenter around Day 3-4 in hopes that the remaining fermentation will both scrub the O2 in the hop pellets and flush it out through the airlock. If you have a somewhat active fermentation, it won't take long for the O2 level to go down.

Another option is to liquid purge a keg, hook the gas up to the liquid out post, turn on the gas at a really low level (1 psi or so), pop the lid, toss the hops in, then put the lid back on. Theoretically, the positive gas flow going into the keg through the liquid post will help keep air out for the few moments you have the lid off. I've done that a few times with success.

 

[goodolarchie]

This is specific to my setup but I have fermentor connected to receiving keg during fermentation with a spunding valve on keg. Receiving keg gets co2 purged from fermentation. I put keg hops in right at the start and rack onto that near end of fermentation then spund in keg using remaining gravity points.

Yeah that's what I thought, hops are already in the keg. I'm still confused as to how somebody could add hops to a 90% full keg without oxidization (even if oxygen headspace was later purged), unless they are somehow already suspended into the remaining 10% of liquid getting transferred.

What I like to do is add hops into my fermenter around Day 3-4 in hopes that the remaining fermentation will both scrub the O2 in the hop pellets and flush it out through the airlock. If you have a somewhat active fermentation, it won't take long for the O2 level to go down.

This is what I do as well. Sometimes a second dry hop at the final burps of the airlock to push any oxygen back out again. No messing with dry hopping in the keg this way, unless it's racking/filling on top of the hops and either using a system like CBDS or a filtered diptube...

 

[Germainium]

Sorry if I'm revisiting something already discussed, but I just want to clarify. With the CBDS, you are transferring through the liquid post from your fermenter, through the CBDS without any issues? I'm a little concerned because I don't want to cold crash and am looking to pressure transfer from my SS Brew Bucket through a purged keg with a CBDS. I heavily hop my NEIPAs, so concerned about clogging.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Does anyone know where I can buy bulk replacement tubing for this?

I'd like to replace this tubing fairly regularly as the tubing retains dry hop flavor that I can't get out (even when soaking for a few days in cleaner)

The manufacturer has a tune up kit that comes with 4 replacement tubes for $15

Would prefer to buy some bulk tubing that I can cut myself

 

[hezagenius]

Does anyone know where I can buy bulk replacement tubing for this?

It should just be 1/4" ID silicone tubing. I think it's smaller than 3/8" ID, but you could measure it to be sure. You can order that in bulk from sellers on amazon. Should be able to find 10' pieces for $15 or less.

 

[hezagenius]

Sorry if I'm revisiting something already discussed, but I just want to clarify. With the CBDS, you are transferring through the liquid post from your fermenter, through the CBDS without any issues? I'm a little concerned because I don't want to cold crash and am looking to pressure transfer from my SS Brew Bucket through a purged keg with a CBDS. I heavily hop my NEIPAs, so concerned about clogging.

Are you filtering on your intake in the fermenter? If you are filtering the intake, you should be OK. If you are not filtering, then there's a good chance you will get a clog during the transfer, either in the poppet on the ball lock disconnect, the poppet on the keg post, or the filter on the CBDS (if you are using the filter there).

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Are you filtering on your intake in the fermenter? If you are filtering the intake, you should be OK. If you are not filtering, then there's a good chance you will get a clog during the transfer, either in the poppet on the ball lock disconnect, the poppet on the keg post, or the filter on the CBDS (if you are using the filter there).

Sorry if I'm revisiting something already discussed, but I just want to clarify. With the CBDS, you are transferring through the liquid post from your fermenter, through the CBDS without any issues? I'm a little concerned because I don't want to cold crash and am looking to pressure transfer from my SS Brew Bucket through a purged keg with a CBDS. I heavily hop my NEIPAs, so concerned about clogging.

I don't dry hop in the primary for this reason. I only dry hop in the keg with the CBDS (and 300 micron hop screen kit). I do a closed transfer and haven't experienced issues with clogging (just be careful when racking not to pickup sediment from bottom).

Honestly, I think the whole "bio-transformation" & "double dry hop" thing is a myth. My theory is that its all related to reduced O2 pickup. I bet if you just dumped your first hop addition in with the second addition (prior to liquid transfer) into a CO2 purged keg and did a closed transfer you would be just as satisfied with the results (purging keg a few times with CO2 after adding dry hops and again after transfer) . I'd even go as far to say you would get higher extaction if you agitate the keg like I do and its not on a yeast cake.

When dry hopping with the CBDS I only keep a contact time of 3 days at room temp. I'll gently roll the keg on its side a few times a day (and flip it upside down and right side up a few times a day too). This gives you much better extraction than just letting the hops sit.

I then crash the keg to 38 degrees overnight. Then I'll burst carbonate @ 40 psi for 24 hours (after the keg has been chilled), then burp keg (this will not impact hop aroma on finished beer) and reduce PSI to serving pressure ~12PSI. I can usually start drinking hoppy goodness within 2 days, but its perfect after a week

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

It should just be 1/4" ID silicone tubing. I think it's smaller than 3/8" ID, but you could measure it to be sure. You can order that in bulk from sellers on amazon. Should be able to find 10' pieces for $15 or less.

thanks!

 

[TLaffey]

I only dry hop in the keg with the CBDS (and 300 micron hop screen kit). I do a closed transfer and haven't experienced issues with clogging (just be careful when racking not to pickup sediment from bottom).

Honestly, I think the whole "bio-transformation" & "double dry hop" thing is a myth. My theory is that its all related to reduced O2 pickup. I bet if you just dumped your first hop addition in with the second addition (prior to liquid transfer) into a CO2 purged keg and did a closed transfer you would be just as satisfied with the results (purging keg a few times with CO2 after adding dry hops and again after transfer) . I'd even go as far to say you would get higher extaction if you agitate the keg like I do and its not on a yeast cake.

When dry hopping with the CBDS I only keep a contact time of 3 days at room temp. I'll gently roll the keg on its side a few times a day (and flip it upside down and right side up a few times a day too). This gives you much better extraction than just letting the hops sit.

I then crash the keg to 38 degrees overnight. Then I'll burst carbonate @ 40 psi for 24 hours (after the keg has been chilled), then burp keg (this will not impact hop aroma on finished beer) and reduce PSI to serving pressure ~12PSI. I can usually start drinking hoppy goodness within 2 days, but its perfect after a week

My process is evolving to be like that described by Unicorn. Previously I was dry hopping in primary when CO2 production was slowing (but still active) and transferring to a keg after about 10 days and carbonating. But that meant transferring into the keg with no yeast activity to use up the remaining oxygen in the headspace.

For my last few brews, I've added the 300 micron screen to CBDS, put the dry hops (typ. about 4 ounces) into the bottom of the keg, purge twice at ~25psi, then pressure transfer at about 2-3 psi from my SS fermenter buckets. So far, this seems to have helped with both dry hopping performance as well as beer longevity.

As for bio-transformation, I think this is not a myth as flavor is affected (for the better, I think). But I also think the O2 pickup is the dominant effect here. I found this podcast very interesting--including dry hops providing added carbohydrate for ongoing, slow, fermentation. Seems to me that beer stability will be improved by another transfer to a serving keg once it has cleared.
http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/109-timing-is-everything

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Lagering a Gordon Strong Helles in kegs, that I brewed in February. Both samples are from the same brewsession.

Sampling from a keg without the Clear Draught system:

Sampling from the keg with the Clear Draught system:

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

My process is evolving to be like that described by Unicorn. Previously I was dry hopping in primary when CO2 production was slowing (but still active) and transferring to a keg after about 10 days and carbonating. But that meant transferring into the keg with no yeast activity to use up the remaining oxygen in the headspace.

For my last few brews, I've added the 300 micron screen to CBDS, put the dry hops (typ. about 4 ounces) into the bottom of the keg, purge twice at ~25psi, then pressure transfer at about 2-3 psi from my SS fermenter buckets. So far, this seems to have helped with both dry hopping performance as well as beer longevity.

As for bio-transformation, I think this is not a myth as flavor is affected (for the better, I think). But I also think the O2 pickup is the dominant effect here. I found this podcast very interesting--including dry hops providing added carbohydrate for ongoing, slow, fermentation. Seems to me that beer stability will be improved by another transfer to a serving keg once it has cleared.
http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/109-timing-is-everything

I just did a batch where I added a biotransformation addition of 2oz in the primary (normally I only keg hop). When I pressure transfered, it did clog up once or twice. Was able to clear the clogging by pumping co2 in the gas in at about 16 psi and attaching a spare liquid QD with some tubing. Definitely a minor PITA, but got the job done. I wouldn't go more than 2oz in the keg if you are planning to transfer with the screen attached.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

It should just be 1/4" ID silicone tubing. I think it's smaller than 3/8" ID, but you could measure it to be sure. You can order that in bulk from sellers on amazon. Should be able to find 10' pieces for $15 or less.

Any idea where I can buy the silicon end caps or what size they are?

 

[hezagenius]

@Unicorn_Platypus
Don't know the size offhand but there's plenty here to choose from.

https://www.eastwood.com/high-temp-...7WR12F9pJMIN0OhCKOlcjGZqJVuxLzeAaApv9EALw_wcB

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I just did a batch where I added a biotransformation addition of 2oz in the primary (normally I only keg hop). When I pressure transfered, it did clog up once or twice. Was able to clear the clogging by pumping co2 in the gas in at about 16 psi and attaching a spare liquid QD with some tubing. Definitely a minor PITA, but got the job done. I wouldn't go more than 2oz in the keg if you are planning to transfer with the screen attached.

Well...I'm never doing that again! From now on, I'm only adding dry hops to the keg directly.

Upon initial dispensing, lots of hop particles are being drawn out with the beer. Massive hop burn right now and clogging of my faucet.

This is the only time I've had issues with the filter functioning properly.

Adding the biotransform dose of 2oz to the primary likely F'd this one up.

Pretty sure the the screen filter got messed up or has particles trapped inside from when I did the transfer

I'm gonna give it a few more days. Hopefully the particles drop out enough after more cold conditioning. Only the faucet appears clogged right now...so optimistic this will remedy itself with a little extra patience.

 

[hezagenius]

@Unicorn_Platypus

Did you have a filter on the diptube in the primary? If not, you could end up with a lot of stuff trapped inside the Clear Beer screen during the transfer.

The good news is that once you pour that out of the keg, you should be fine.

How long had it been cold crashing before your initial dispensing?

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

@Unicorn_Platypus

Did you have a filter on the diptube in the primary? If not, you could end up with a lot of stuff trapped inside the Clear Beer screen during the transfer.

The good news is that once you pour that out of the keg, you should be fine.

How long had it been cold crashing before your initial dispensing?

I transfer with CO2 using an orange carboy cap and a steel racking cane.

Historically I've been ok without a filter on the steel racking cane when siphoning out of primary (as long as I'm careful not to disturb the cake on the bottom).

I ferment in plasctic carboys so I dont like to crash in primary because of O2 pickup. If I ever upgrade to a primary that holds pressure would definitely add this step though.

Any screens or equipments you recommend that I could attach to a steel racking cane that can handle pellet hops and not get clogged?

I definitely dispensed from the keg too early. I burst carbonared and tapped it about 4 days total crashing . Going forward I'll wait a full week.

 

[jjw5015]

Has anyone used this as a seemingly cheaper and similar alternative to the CBDS?

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Has anyone used this as a seemingly cheaper and similar alternative to the CBDS?

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx

I think this was built for a fermentasaurus. Looks great. Just doesn't have the screen filter that the cbds has. Probably good for lagers or anything not dry hopped in the keg

 

[brew703]

I have the CBDS and the Fermentasarus one and both perform the same. Do not really notice any difference with the pour. These are much better then the steel dip tubes.
Will be getting one for each of my kegs.

 

[hezagenius]

Any screens or equipments you recommend that I could attach to a steel racking cane that can handle pellet hops and not get clogged?

Utah Biodiesel sells something called an Auto Siphon Filter. That's what I use on my diptubes/racking canes when I transfer out of my primary. They are stainless and can be trimmed down to whatever length works and then you can cinch it onto your racking cane with a SS worm clamp. If I am fermenting in a keg, I put that on the diptube before I sanitize the keg and fill it with beer. If I am fermenting in a plastic container, I put it over the racking cane when I transfer. They have a nice rigid feel to them and a flat sturdy bottom.

 

[eric19312]

$15 on Amazon. I dry hop in primary and then cold crash. I am fermenting in a 60L Speidel tank and can't dump trub/yeast/hops before racking.

Used to have terrible time with poppets clogging and the one time I tried doing it with a CBDS installed so much hop it plugged up the filter and when I tried to clear it I blew off the nipple and I had to open the keg to fix it. So much for a closed transfer. Now with this guy I've had three kegging days in a row with zero clogging issues. You can get it for different line sizes (I am using half inch) and there are different mesh screens available. I'm using the 50 mesh screen. I did find I needed to add hose clamps to the barbs to get a perfect seal (the point of closed transfer in first place right).

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Utah Biodiesel sells something called an Auto Siphon Filter. That's what I use on my diptubes/racking canes when I transfer out of my primary. They are stainless and can be trimmed down to whatever length works and then you can cinch it onto your racking cane with a SS worm clamp. If I am fermenting in a keg, I put that on the diptube before I sanitize the keg and fill it with beer. If I am fermenting in a plastic container, I put it over the racking cane when I transfer. They have a nice rigid feel to them and a flat sturdy bottom.

Awesome!

 

[hezagenius]

Awesome!

Arbor Fab in Michigan is the place that makes them and they also sell them. Same price I believe. One might have cheaper shipping than the other to NYC.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

@hezagenius just picked one of em up. Will attach to my steel racking cane for my next hoppy beer. Thanks again

@jjw5015

Looks like you can build a hop filter and attach to the fermentasaurus version. See link

https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/blog/floating-filtered-siphon-tube/

 

[LittleRiver]

...$15 on Amazon....I'm using the 50 mesh screen...

Thanks for posting about this great little in-line strainer. Mine just came in the mail.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’m Fermenting in a keg with the CBDS, crashed, added gelatin and now I’m serving from the same keg...and I’m having problems with foamy poors. Anyone else have foamy poors with the CBDS? It’s intermittent, like if I pour a pint the pur alternates clear ,foam, clear, foam. I’m imagining There’s some grub or yeast messing up the float or stuck to the CBDS filter?
it’s not more common issues for foaming: my beer lines are balanced and they pour finefrom if there kegs. It’s still a little under carbed