First DIPA All Grain

[Ghost1128]

So, I'm attempting my first all grain DIPA this weekend. I have a typical 10 gallon Rubbermaid and a 10 gal kettle. I plan on single infusion mash with batch sparge. I hope to get 70% efficiancy. Does anyone have any tips for brew day? Additionally, I'm on the fence between a 60 min boil and 90 min boil. I know that the 90 min will help me rectify any efficiancy issues, but does anyone suggest one over the other? Recipe below.

15 lb American 2 row
2 lb Crystal 40 L
2 oz Mosaic 60 min
2 oz Mosaic 15 min
1 oz Cascaid at flame out
2 oz Cascaid Dry Hop

WLP001 California Ale Yeast

Any helpful hints/tips would be appreciated!

 

[thehaze]

You have around 11.7% Crystal in that recipe, which is way too much. A DIPA is all about the hops. I would cut the Crystal down to either 5% or simply all of it. If I were to brew a DIPA, I would skip the Crystal. I would instead use a flavourful base malt, 5-10% Oat Malt, 5-10% Rye, to enhance the body and mouthfeel and still mash at 149F/65C.

Mash low to get a more fermentable wort and add some more hops. Whether you are doing 5 gallons or more, you will not get a DIPA with only 7 oz of hops. That's way too little. My latest 5.5% Pale Ale used 7.1 oz Amarillo for late additions and whirlpool ( NO dry hopping ) and it was very good. I can't imagine how better it would have been with 5 oz more in the dry hop.

IPAs should get at least 5 oz in the dry hop and DIPAs even more. For more flavour in your beer, you want more additions in the latest 10-15 minutes of boil and a big whirlpool done at a lower temperature, with at least 4-5 oz of hops.

I think I read somewhere that pale ales should get 5 gr. hops/ l, IPAs 10 gr and DIPAs around 15 gr / l. But even so, compared to modern DIPAs, the numbers are way off. Somewhere near 25 gr/ l is where you want to be.

 

[Ghost1128]

Hmm ok I'll take that into account. I'm using BeerSmith 2, and it has me at the upper limit for IBUs with the hops I put in there so I wasn't sure about adding more. Thank for the info.

 

[thehaze]

Just my 2 cents: If I were to brew a DIPA, I would definitely try to add more hops during the last 15 minutes of the boil and whirlpool, in order to get more flavour into the beer. When the boil is finished, I usually begin to cool down the wort. I take it down to around 150F and then I add hops. Like 5-8 oz of hops. I don't even use a classic bittering addition.

You can however add a small bittering charge and move most hops to the last minutes of the boil and whirlpool. Dry hop for 3-5 days.

I can also add that 2 oz Mosaic at 60 minutes is a waste. Mosaic is good for whirlpool and dry hop. Use like 1 oz of Magnum/Warrior/Summit/Bravo for bittering: cheaper and higher AA%.

 

[PADave]

I agree with thehaze, don't waste the 2oz of Mosaic at 60 min. Use a good bittering hop for your 60 min addition.

 

[Sadu]

With DIPAs you can kinda forget about trying to balance IBUs. Beersmith's estimate isn't the same as what you actually get (if you properly tested the brew). My last one came out at something like estimated 250 IBUs, with 4oz of Columbus at 90 mins, a bit more at 30 mins, then a huge fresh Cascade whirlpool addition and dryhop. It's bitter, sure, but not unbalanced.

For a 5G batch, I'd suggest using somewhere in the vicinity of 1lb of hops total. 7oz is enough to make a respectable pale ale or pilsner but in my opinion a DIPA requires more.

 

[Miraculix]

You have around 11.7% Crystal in that recipe, which is way too much. A DIPA is all about the hops. I would cut the Crystal down to either 5% or simply all of it. If I were to brew a DIPA, I would skip the Crystal. I would instead use a flavourful base malt, 5-10% Oat Malt, 5-10% Rye, to enhance the body and mouthfeel and still mash at 149F/65C.

Mash low to get a more fermentable wort and add some more hops. Whether you are doing 5 gallons or more, you will not get a DIPA with only 7 oz of hops. That's way too little. My latest 5.5% Pale Ale used 7.1 oz Amarillo for late additions and whirlpool ( NO dry hopping ) and it was very good. I can't imagine how better it would have been with 5 oz more in the dry hop.

IPAs should get at least 5 oz in the dry hop and DIPAs even more. For more flavour in your beer, you want more additions in the latest 10-15 minutes of boil and a big whirlpool done at a lower temperature, with at least 4-5 oz of hops.

I think I read somewhere that pale ales should get 5 gr. hops/ l, IPAs 10 gr and DIPAs around 15 gr / l. But even so, compared to modern DIPAs, the numbers are way off. Somewhere near 25 gr/ l is where you want to be.

You're sure you're talking about gram per litre?

This would leave me with wooping 250g of hops for my 25 litre batches... A bit high, don't you think?

 

[Sadu]

You're sure you're talking about gram per litre?

This would leave me with wooping 250g of hops for my 25 litre batches... A bit high, don't you think?

That seems about right, 250g isn't a huge charge of hops at all. Our local brewery uses something like 33g per liter in their IPAs (825g in 25L). That's pretty extreme in my view and I reckon you can make a great IPA with a lot less than that.

But 7oz (8.5g per litre) is definitely pale ale territory IMO, I'd struggle to get a good DIPA with that amount of hops.

 

[thehaze]

Yes, I'm talking about grams per liter. You can go higher or lower, depending on your taste and manufacturing procedure, but 15-20 grams per liter will definitely help get that DIPA " vibe ", and not just in the bittering department, but more in the aroma and flavour.

 

[Miraculix]

That seems about right, 250g isn't a huge charge of hops at all. Our local brewery uses something like 33g per liter in their IPAs (825g in 25L). That's pretty extreme in my view and I reckon you can make a great IPA with a lot less than that.

But 7oz (8.5g per litre) is definitely pale ale territory IMO, I'd struggle to get a good DIPA with that amount of hops.

Wow that's huge! I am playing around with stuff around 2 to 4 g per liter and found it already quite adventurous

Ok, I see I might try upping that a bit, if necessary. Thanks for the input.

I wonder how the brewery's can make this financially work though....

 

[Miraculix]

Yes, I'm talking about grams per liter. You can go higher or lower, depending on your taste and manufacturing procedure, but 15-20 grams per liter will definitely help get that DIPA " vibe ", and not just in the bittering department, but more in the aroma and flavour.

Ok, thanks for clarifying! I guess I am not such a big hop head as others might be. Although I just played around with ditching the bitterness charge and just relying on the flame out addition with no chill for more aroma and flavour. It worked quite well, but I think it was still only about 3g per litre or even less.

 

[thehaze]

I'm not a definitive hop head either, as I enjoy equally much belgian, english styled beers ( which I love ). But a DIPA is a very hop forward beer, which requires a greater amount of hops. And if I were to brew one, I would add more hops. But again, taste is relative for most brewers/drinkers, so as a homebrewer, you got a lot of experimeting ahead of you, until you can settle on a specific "taste"/"feel" of the beer.

 

[RM-MN]

So, I'm attempting my first all grain DIPA this weekend. I have a typical 10 gallon Rubbermaid and a 10 gal kettle. I plan on single infusion mash with batch sparge. I hope to get 70% efficiancy. Does anyone have any tips for brew day? Additionally, I'm on the fence between a 60 min boil and 90 min boil. I know that the 90 min will help me rectify any efficiancy issues, but does anyone suggest one over the other? Recipe below.

15 lb American 2 row
2 lb Crystal 40 L
2 oz Mosaic 60 min
2 oz Mosaic 15 min
1 oz Cascaid at flame out
2 oz Cascaid Dry Hop

WLP001 California Ale Yeast

Any helpful hints/tips would be appreciated!

Efficiency is directly related to the milling quality of the grain. If you have a refractometer you can check your OG at the end of the mash to get an idea of what your efficiency will be. Be sure to stir the mash well before taking the sample. If your OG is lower than expected, mash longer, 90 minutes will help if you don't have full conversion/extraction and up to 120 minutes is possible. The 90 minute boil won't help your efficiency but will reduce the quantity of water so your wort sugars will be more concentrated at the expense of less beer.

If you have your own mill, set it a bit closer and perhaps add some rice hulls to help avoid the stuck mash or sparge you might otherwise get from the finer milling. Another way to avoid the stuck mash/sparge is to line your mash tun with a fine mesh bag which will become the filter instead of relying on just the grain husks/rice hulls.

 

[Ghost1128]

Thanks guys, definitely gave me some stuff to chew on. Haze, I get what you are saying on the hops, I will definitely make some changes. I am definitely a hop head haha! So I don't mind hop forward beers.

 

[ProblemChild]

FWIW - I find crystal as a touch less defined in a DIPA as opposed to an IPA. A double will support a slightly higher crystal % if done right. I will agree that 11% is over the top, but a low mash and between 5% and 7% crystal (additionally boost OG with corn sugar or similar) will add something good to the west coast styles or, as I am brewing lately, a "mid-west" IPA, or half way between WCIPA and NEIPA. In an IPA, breaking 5% can get cloying or simply just wrong in a big hurry, but if pushing the ABV much over 8%, the support from 40L works out quite well IMO.

 

[Ghost1128]

So for the mash, you guys recommend low and slow on this one? 155 deg for longer than 60 min?

 

[Miraculix]

So for the mash, you guys recommend low and slow on this one? 155 deg for longer than 60 min?

Depends on the final gravity you wanna have. When I say low and slow I mean 60 to 61c (141f) for 90 to 120 min.

 

[Ghost1128]

Ok. Here is what I put together with everyone's great input:

15 Lb American 2 row
1lb Crystal 40L
1 Lb Oat Malt

Mash with 6.5 gal at 150F for 80 mins, drain wort and batch sparge w 3 gal at 165F

90 minute boil:
1 oz Magnum 90 min
1 oz Magnum 60 min
4 oz Mosaic 15 min
4 oz Mosaic 0 min
4 oz Cascade Dry Hop 5 days

 

[Upthewazzu]

90 minute boil:
1 oz Magnum 90 min
1 oz Magnum 60 min
4 oz Mosaic 15 min
4 oz Mosaic 0 min
4 oz Cascade Dry Hop 5 days

That would be far too bitter for my tastes, but maybe you'll like it. At most I'd do 1.5oz Magnum at 60. I don't see any reason to do a 90min boil unless you're using pilsner malt.

 

[BeerChemistWhiskey]

Ok. Here is what I put together with everyone's great input:

15 Lb American 2 row
1lb Crystal 40L
1 Lb Oat Malt

Mash with 6.5 gal at 150F for 80 mins, drain wort and batch sparge w 3 gal at 165F

90 minute boil:
1 oz Magnum 90 min
1 oz Magnum 60 min
4 oz Mosaic 15 min
4 oz Mosaic 0 min
4 oz Cascade Dry Hop 5 days

I will just add, that from what I understand you run into diminishing returns adding hops any time before 60 minutes left in the boil. So I would not add the 90 minute addition, just up your 60 minute addition.

Someone chime in if I'm way off!

 

[ProblemChild]

For me, not a huge fan of a lot of Magnum. It is good, but too much and I get a pepper flavor that is a little off-putting. Apollo, Galena, Northern Brewer, Waimea, lots of good bittering hops out there that do for a DIPA.

 

[kristiismean]

I am not a fan of magnum, but I am a big fan of Apollo or hop shots. (I probably could not really tell the difference when used at 60 minutes.)
I would, as stated above, ditch the crystal, But I would substitute biscuit (1 lb) or some honey malt (8 oz) and a little flaked wheat. I add gypsum and a little salt to my water pre mash and my hops shine, if you have a LHBS they might know what works for the water in your area.

Sparging, 90 minutes does not hurt, go slow, then slow. Sparging for a 5 gallon batch should take 45 minutes, or there about.

Hop schedule, except for the 90/60 minute addition, I would try:
60 hop shot / 1 oz apollo (yes, 1 oz, not 2)
5 minute 1 oz Mosiac
5 minutes 1 oz Cascade
flame out 1 oz Mosiac
flame out 2 oz Cascade
10 minute rest
Whirlpool addition of 1 oz mosiac and 1 oz cascade (add the hops when the temp reaches 150 and stop cooling efforts, stir with sanitized paddle, utensil. Go 20 minutes or until the temperature reaches 140, then continue cooling.
2 oz cascade at 5 days for dry hop
1 oz mosaic at 5 days for dry hop

Either way, it will be beer, it will be good, Good Luck!!

 

[couchsending]

If you’re trying to make a double IPA that has lots of drinkabikity and maybe drinks like a lot less beer on your pallet you only need Crystal for
Color and you need some sugar to dry it out. A lower FG will make it feel lighter than it’s alcohol level but that alcohol will help to add body. Your hops in the boil look pretty good but I would maybe double the Dry Hop amount if you want lots of aromatics.

1-2% c40 is all you really need other than base malt and sugar.

Are you kegging or bottling?

 

[Ghost1128]

Couch, I am bottling. Still saving up some $$ for a good kegging system.

Also, because I can't stop tinkering haha, I mixed up the hop additions to where I am doing 2 oz Mosaic and 2 oz Cascade at flameout, and the dry hopping with the same quantity. Other hop additions during the boil are going to be the same. Also am dropping the boil to 60 mins (going to adjust if my efficiency is crap).