First crack at making cider....

[Maylar]

Understandable, but wouldn't adding such a small quantity of juice make the dilution of alcohol negligible? I'm thinking a total of 16 oz of juice will be added to the end product of about 100 oz of hard cider.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it go something like this:

OG = 1.055
FG(before sweetening and priming) = 1.005 <-- this is what I'm aiming for. Not actual numbers yet. Could be lower based on taste testing.
ABV = 6.56%

Add enough juice to accomplish desired sweetness levels. I'm thinking about 1.008.

Add the proper amount of juice that contains 1oz of sugar to prime my 1 gallon of hard cider. Approx 8oz. Bringing FG to about 1.011.

After the yeast gobbles up that priming sugar, I'll pasteurize, halting any more sugar consumption. Bringing the final FG back to approximately 1.008.

So true final numbers would be:

OG = 1.055
FG(after sweetening and carbonating) = 1.008
ABV = 6.17%

A difference of 0.39%.

EDIT: It's too early in the day for me for math stuffs.

I'd need to average out the two liquids to get my final ABV reading, right?

So 100oz of hard cider at 6.56% ABV, and 16oz of juice at 0.00% ABV.

Equation: (Volume1 X ABV1) + (Volume2 X ABV2) / (Volume1 + Volume2)

(100 x 0.0656) + (16 x 0.00) / 116 = 5.65%

A difference of 0.91%, which is a bit more, but still not a whole lot.

Yes, 16 oz should drop it by about .9%. That vs. about 4 oz of FAJC to achieve the same sugar level. And concentrate gives back more apple flavor to boot. But it's your call.

 

[brancaster]

Yes, 16 oz should drop it by about .9%. That vs. about 4 oz of FAJC to achieve the same sugar level. And concentrate gives back more apple flavor to boot. But it's your call.

Interesting. I've got a lot to think about. Luckily I've got the fermenting time to do so!

If 4 oz of FAJC will give back more apple flavor I might have to go that route. I'm not too concerned about the ~1% in lost ABV, but it would be nice to limit the loss and get more flavor at the same time.

I suppose I'll see how the flavor profile turns out after secondary fermentation and decide what I want to use for sweetening and priming.

Do you have a recommended FAJC?

 

[Harleycodr]

I think I'll try doing the wort/apple juice combo to make my ale - next experiment. I think I will make this current batch I have going into wine. Problem is, I have used unfiltered apple juice. What can I add to it to clear it up? Also, how long should I let it sit in the fermenter before putting it into the secondary fermenter and then how long does it age there before bottling, and then how long before it's drinkable?

So many questions as I shift into making wine...I think I'm going to love it though!

 

[brancaster]

I think I'll try doing the wort/apple juice combo to make my ale - next experiment. I think I will make this current batch I have going into wine. Problem is, I have used unfiltered apple juice. What can I add to it to clear it up? Also, how long should I let it sit in the fermenter before putting it into the secondary fermenter and then how long does it age there before bottling, and then how long before it's drinkable?

So many questions as I shift into making wine...I think I'm going to love it though!

What was the OG of the juice you used?

I'd stop primary when you get a reading of 1.010, then ferment in secondary until you get a reading of what ever sweetness you're looking for. Common ciders read below 1.002 for dry, 1.002-1.012 for medium/semisweet and 1.012 and over for sweet.

You can obviously achieve your desired sweetness with backsweetening.

You can bottle it right when you hit your desired FG and age as long as you'd like. The longer you age, the better it'll tatse, but you can drink it right after you bottle it if you wish.

I'm rather new to this as well, so please, if anyone knows better, correct me if I'm wrong!

P.s. I forgot about your question on clarity. I'm not sure what you can add for clarity on unfiltered apple juice. Is your juice pasteurized? If so, you might be stuck with the cloudiness. Aging will clear it up though.

 

[Harleycodr]

My oritinal gravity reading was 1.050 - I think I'll go take a reading and see where it is and probably transfer it to the secondary. It is pateurized but no preservatives whatsoever.

 

[Harleycodr]

Okay I just took a reading and it's sitting at 1.30 now and I racked into into a secondary.

 

[Iseneye]

Okay I just took a reading and it's sitting at 1.30 now and I racked into into a secondary.

If it is at 1.003 then it will be at or near final gravity. If it's 1.030 it needs to ferment more.

 

[Harleycodr]

1.030 is what I meant....it is still fermenting.

 

[brancaster]

1.030 is what I meant....it is still fermenting.

How long has it been fermenting and at what temperature?

 

[Harleycodr]

It's been fermenting since May 3rd at room temp.

 

[brancaster]

It's been fermenting since May 3rd at room temp.

Ah, yeah you could have left it in primary for a few more days if it was reading at 1.30. I wouldn't rack into secondary until it fell below 1.010, but that's just me.

You should still be perfectly fine though. Once your fermentation stops in secondary make sure you don't get any of the sediment at the bottom when you rack it off.

 

[Thanks_Yeasties]

Whether or not you need to rack to a secondary is dependent but for future batches I would always avoid transferring a cider (or beer) before it has reached its final gravity.

 

[SanPancho]

i make a ton of cider every year. all of it in either the glass or plastic 1 gallon jugs the cider comes in at store. for what its worth, here's my general MO.

i like to use a bit extra sugar (generally just white/brown sugar) at beginning to get ABV up a bit, maybe in the 5%ish range. then ferment- i have a few favorites at present, bavarian hefe yeast, bavarian lager yeast, and cider house select (ferments from 50 to almost 70F).

i use biofine clear (or you can use gelatin) to clear and help drop yeast when i cold crash to stop fermentation, typically when i get to 1.010ish. thats a bit on the sweet side, but CO2 will create acidity which will balance out the sweetness and make it just seem nice and crisp. (i also think if you let it go to full dryness you lose all apple flavor)

as for carbonation- i now use my draft system as typical for beer. but if you dont have that, what i used to do is bottle the cider, heat pastuerize at 180 for just a few minutes (per temp-x-time table), then carefully cool to room temp. once pastuerized, you can use the little carbonation drops and carbing yeast.

you get crisp, slightly sweet and sparkly cider. definitely try using lager yeasts, i find they can do an excellent job of letting apple flavor come through.

if natural carbing is still leaving your cider a bit one dimensional, you can try adding some malic acid to cider to help get some crispness. (or acid blend if thats all you can find)

if you use unfiltered cider as base, you can use some pectic enzyme to clear up the cider and drop some of the gunk. works best warm, so add it to cider, shake/swirl the hell out of it and maybe let it sit a day at room temp (with sanitized airlock) before you pitch yeast.

if you want flavored cider, just figure out where you need to end fermentation to account for the sugar you will add back with your flavored juice. not sure how well you can naturally carb a flavored cider as i assume yeast will eat up all the blueberry/cherry/etc sugars, but try it and see what happens.

 

[Iseneye]

as for carbonation- i now use my draft system as typical for beer. but if you dont have that, what i used to do is bottle the cider, heat pastuerize at 180 for just a few minutes (per temp-x-time table), then carefully cool to room temp. once pastuerized, you can use the little carbonation drops and carbing yeast.

I don't get how this would work. I assume you have stopped fermentation prior to FG for a bit of sweetness. You then pasteurize the cider to kill the yeast. You then cool the cider and add carbonation drop and carbing yeast. If you're adding yeast back to the bottle there is no point pasteurizing because the bottling yeast will ferment all remaining sugars anyway.

 

[SanPancho]

Ah!! yeah, sorry. i forgot to add in the part about dropping xylitol/splenda. as you will see i noted at very bottom about adding juice flavors, you cant add yeast for natural carb without running risk of going to FG. you're correct.

but- what you can do is use a yeast that has a medium/low attenuation rate. so if the yeast is rated at 80%, and your OG is 1.050, then in theory it should stop at around 1.010. but again- that only works for still cider. there's no natural carbonation without possibly losing the remaining sugars- unless you go with non-fermentable sugars like xylitol/splenda.

one thing you might consider is buying a small setup to carbonate. you dont need to drop a ton of cash to get a CO2 tank and all that stuff. there's something called a carbonator cap. $13 with shipping. and $25-30 bucks for a CO2 injector. (its basically a nitrous cracker for CO2) you put the cider in a regular soda bottle, cap it, then gas it up with the injector. if your cider is cold and you shake the bottle it'll be ready to go in like 10-15 minutes.

you can look either of them up on you tube - the cap and the injector. that's basically the only way to have carbonated cider that is not at FG or has been flavored with fruit juice. it also works great if you have beer that has gone flat or didnt fully carbonate in bottle. its a great little toy if you cant go with full CO2 tank setup.

obviously, i veer towards carbonated cider. still just doesnt do it for me....

 

[mag00n]

Ah!! yeah, sorry. i forgot to add in the part about dropping xylitol/splenda. as you will see i noted at very bottom about adding juice flavors, you cant add yeast for natural carb without running risk of going to FG. you're correct.

but- what you can do is use a yeast that has a medium/low attenuation rate. so if the yeast is rated at 80%, and your OG is 1.050, then in theory it should stop at around 1.010. but again- that only works for still cider. there's no natural carbonation without possibly losing the remaining sugars- unless you go with non-fermentable sugars like xylitol/splenda.

one thing you might consider is buying a small setup to carbonate. you dont need to drop a ton of cash to get a CO2 tank and all that stuff. there's something called a carbonator cap. $13 with shipping. and $25-30 bucks for a CO2 injector. (its basically a nitrous cracker for CO2) you put the cider in a regular soda bottle, cap it, then gas it up with the injector. if your cider is cold and you shake the bottle it'll be ready to go in like 10-15 minutes.

you can look either of them up on you tube - the cap and the injector. that's basically the only way to have carbonated cider that is not at FG or has been flavored with fruit juice. it also works great if you have beer that has gone flat or didnt fully carbonate in bottle. its a great little toy if you cant go with full CO2 tank setup.

obviously, i veer towards carbonated cider. still just doesnt do it for me....

If hes been brewing 20yrs or whatever and plans to contine with beer and/or cider, a 5 gallong kegging setup is only about $200-$230 and is money well spent.

 

[Maylar]

as for carbonation- i now use my draft system as typical for beer. but if you dont have that, what i used to do is bottle the cider, heat pastuerize at 180 for just a few minutes (per temp-x-time table), then carefully cool to room temp. once pastuerized, you can use the little carbonation drops and carbing yeast.

Sorry mang,but this is nonsense. Bottle, then pasteurize, then add carb drops and yeast?

Once the bottles are capped and pasteurized, you gonna open em up and add priming sugar? And more yeast?

That's just wrong.

 

[Iseneye]

Sorry mang,but this is nonsense. Bottle, then pasteurize, then add carb drops and yeast?

Once the bottles are capped and pasteurized, you gonna open em up and add priming sugar? And more yeast?

That's just wrong.

I asked the same thing and his / her reply is directly below my previous post.

 

[Harleycodr]

I've had a 5 gallon setup since I started this in '94. This cider or apple wine is an experiement; I didn't want to go big on my first try. This way I have a chance to see if it worked or not. I took a gravity reading yesterday and it has come down to 1.020 and isn't super active but my airlock still gives me an occasional gurgle.

Love this thread - it's been very educational.

PS I'm not a he I'm a she. And yes, I ride a Harley hence the screen name (and not on the back).