First BIAB attempt.....have some questions

[rtyler8140]

So yesterday I made my first attempt at BIAB. I was doing a Scottish Ale....recipe as follows:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 82.4 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
2.1 oz Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.1 %
1.00 oz Kent Golding [5.80 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 19.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) [35.49 ml] Yeast 6 -

Beersmith was predicting an OG of 1.062. I ended up with 1.044 @ 68* before pitching the yeast. I think my temps were anywhere from 155-165 (thermometer kept spitting random numbers) during the 60 min mash. I stirred when I added the grains and stirred more during mash out (brought temp up to 170 for 10 mins). Should I have gone 90 minutes on the mash with this recipe, or was there something else that messed up the efficiency? Also my buddy pointed out that the yeast tube had a best before use date of sometime in June of 2013. I haven't seen any signs of fermentation yet....I know it is still a little early, but I have no experience with liquid yeast. I was planning on waiting another day or so and if no sign, pitch again. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[LabRatBrewer]

Maybe you could have stirred more, I stir about every 15 minutes (I keep a sleeping bag covering the pot to avoid loss of temp). I also mash for 90 minutes, but 60 should have been long enough and not the cause of falling so short. Do you double crush your grains? That is an easy way to add efficiency with BIAB. If you were at 165, maybe that is too warm? I tend to dry beers and mash 147-150. Even if you want a fuller body 165 is getting up there, especially if the thermometer is unreliable.

Without a starter, the liquid yeast will take a while to get going, it should be fine.

 

[rtyler8140]

The grains were only crushed once. I imagine the temperature played a part as well. Next time I will use a different thermometer and stir more. Thanks for the advice.

 

[NivekD]

I always double crush my grains and mash at 152º-155º and get pretty good efficiency (high70s to low 80s). Keep a couple of pounds of the appropriate DME on hand in case you need to add it to bring the SG up a bit.

 

[JDGator]

i would say it's cuz you didn't stir often enough. i have a timer on my propane burner that is 12min and i use it.

 

[haeffnkr]

You need to double or triple grind your grain.

What amount of water did you start with?
What was your estimated effeciency number you used?

I always use http://tastybrew.com/calculators/recipe.html - it works GREAT for my BIAB.
I use 77% for the Apparent Attenuation and 79% for the Brewhouse Efficiency
I usually have 6.5 for the batch size and 7.5 for the boil volume.
My numbers are spot on. I dont stir much. (when I had my gas fired BIAB)
I mash for 60 minutes.
I would be interested in what your tastybrew says about your recipe/water/etc.

thanks Kevin

 

[454k30]

x3, or whatever number it is, you need a finer grind for BIAB.

 

[geoffm33]

On my first BIAB I single crushed, didn't stir often/effectively and didn't squeeze the bejesus out of the bag, got a 65% eff. Took care of all those in my second BIAB and hit near 80%.

 

[rtyler8140]

Thanks for all of the input. Sounds like a finer grind is in order. I started with 7 gal. of water and ended up with about 5.25 gal. when finished. I did not squeeze the bag much at all. It will probably be a month before I can brew again, but I'm excited to give it another whirl with the pointers you guys have given me.

 

[lebucheron]

A longer mash doesn't hurt, I often mash for 3-5 hours (as I get it going then head out for the afternoon and comeback to start my boil). 90min is a safe "everything's got to be converted" time for mashing. No need to double crush, but it doesn't hurt if your crush isn't too fine and you want to make sure ALL of the grain husks are cracked open. I don't stir during the mash.
My efficiency is around 75-80%.

 

[Hawaiibboy]

I have done about 11 BIAB batches now and on average my efficiency is around 67%. I think I need to try the double crush!

 

[rtyler8140]

A longer mash doesn't hurt, I often mash for 3-5 hours (as I get it going then head out for the afternoon and comeback to start my boil). 90min is a safe "everything's got to be converted" time for mashing. No need to double crush, but it doesn't hurt if your crush isn't too fine and you want to make sure ALL of the grain husks are cracked open. I don't stir during the mash.
My efficiency is around 75-80%.

Do you hold temp for 5-6hrs or just let it do its own thing?

 

[C-Rider]

I have done about 11 BIAB batches now and on average my efficiency is around 67%. I think I need to try the double crush!

If you get your grains from Mike, then just run thru the grinder twice. He won't mind. I do it all the time and get efficiency between 75-84.

 

[Hawaiibboy]

If you get your grains from Mike, then just run thru the grinder twice. He won't mind. I do it all the time and get efficiency between 75-84.

Thanks for the tip! You just use two buckets? One to collect it the first time then another to hold your double ground?

What size batches you doing? I'm doing 3.5gal batches in a 10.5gal kettle.

Just trying to figure out as much as I can so i can up my efficiency!

 

[C-Rider]

Thanks for the tip! You just use two buckets? One to collect it the first time then another to hold your double ground?

What size batches you doing? I'm doing 3.5gal batches in a 10.5gal kettle.

Just trying to figure out as much as I can so i can up my efficiency!

Yup, two buckets. If the place fills up then I'll slack off and let others get ahead of me. Don't want to hog the machines.

Since I live in Wai`anae and it's a long drive, I usually plan for 3 brews and buy all the grain at once, being careful to mark each bag of grain for it's brew.

I use 2 gallong paint buckets from HD to ferment and bottle. I try to have my bottling amount at about 1.8 gallons for 3 six packs.

I have a 4 and a 5 gallon boil pot and I mash BIAB using paint strainer bags again from HD in a 5 gallon Colman cooler. Heating w/propane on the back deck.

 

[Hawaiibboy]

Yup, two buckets. If the place fills up then I'll slack off and let others get ahead of me. Don't want to hog the machines.

Since I live in Wai`anae and it's a long drive, I usually plan for 3 brews and buy all the grain at once, being careful to mark each bag of grain for it's brew.

I use 2 gallong paint buckets from HD to ferment and bottle. I try to have my bottling amount at about 1.8 gallons for 3 six packs.

I have a 4 and a 5 gallon boil pot and I mash BIAB using paint strainer bags again from HD in a 5 gallon Colman cooler. Heating w/propane on the back deck.

Thanks for the info!

I really think my efficiency issues are coming from two things: crush and mash temperature stability.

I'll be trying the double crush tomorrow when I pick up my next batch. I'll be sure to report my findings.

 

[BadMrFrosty]

I don't double crush but I do have my mill set to produce almost flour like crushed grain so the result is likely similar but quicker to do. I do a 60 min mash, stir ever 10 min or so, have my mash tun wrapped in insolated camping mats, double batch sparge and get a efficiency of ~80%.

 

[eulipion2]

I single crush with the default Barley Crusher setting, (usually) mash for 60 min, mash-out at 170 for 15 min, and squeeze the bejeezus out of the grain bag. For a "standard" batch I average 73% efficiency. If I'm doing a session beer I tend to get in the mid-80's. Had the same results with a double-crush as with a single, so double-crushing isn't worth the time to me.

I've been BIAB for over four years and am very pleased with the results. If I had to change anything I might narrow the gap in the mill, but I'd rather not try to fix what isn't broken.

 

[geoffm33]

I don't double crush but I do have my mill set to produce almost flour like crushed grain so the result is likely similar but quicker to do. I do a 60 min mash, stir ever 10 min or so, have my mash tun wrapped in insolated camping mats, double batch sparge and get a efficiency of ~80%.

To reenforce what you are saying: I hit 60% on my first BIAB with a double crush. I didn't stir effectively during the mash and I didn't squeeze the bag all that well (no sparge).

For my second BIAB I did a single crush but really fine, stirred every 10 minutes and squeezed the hell out of it. Didn't sparge, got 80%.

Double crush is a good failsafe if you don't have control of the crush. But a good crush makes all the difference.

 

[signpost]

Looks like most everybody addressed your efficiency questions.

As far as the yeast is concerned, most liquid yeasts have the date the yeast was packaged. So, it isn't a 'best by' date. If the yeast had a June 2013 date, that means it is only about a month old. The only reason it is slow to get going is because you didn't do a starter.

RDWHAHB and the airlock will be bubbling in no time, I'm sure.

 

[BinghamtonEd]

+1 to the double crushing. Also, if your temperature really was in the 160's, you're reaching the upper limit at which your alpha/beta enyzmes can operate in, and they will degrade faster, leading to a less fermentable wort. This wouldn't be noticeable in your OG numbers, but I'd be interested to know your FG.

 

[rtyler8140]

A little over a week ago I bumped the temp back up to 68 to jump start the yeast. I had originally put it in the freezer at 55 and it wasn't doing much. After 2 days at 68 it started fermenting pretty good so I dropped the temp down to 55 for a week. I just dropped it to 45 and it will sit there for a week. Next week I will go to 35 for a week before bottling. I tested the gravity today and it is sitting around 1.008. I tasted the sample and though it was very good. I'm looking forward to the final product and getting it out of the freezer to make room for the next batch.

 

[Cider123]

If you want a thorough tutorial on proper technique for BIAB, spend a little time reading over at BIABrewer.info
Those guys focus on this technique and many members were involved when it first started being used regularly. Their statements are based on scientific method.

There are some things you'll learn are common misnomers:

- You do not need to crush finer for efficient BIAB than for traditional methods. Pulverizing your grain into powder will actually inhibit a good mash. A double crush is always good insurance, but I have been using the standard setting that came with my Barley Crusher (.039) and usually hit my estimated OG without much issue.

- Also, and this is a point for great disagreement, their testing has shown that you get better efficiency if you mash with the full amount of water required and no sparge, compared to using less and reserving some water for a sparge. I cannot explain it fully, but the folks at that site can and have. I bought a large kettle and no longer waste my time sparging (and less clean up.) I do squeeze my bag