first attempt at diy candi syrup

[odie]

Finally tried making some candi syrup at home. Read lots of other posts on methods and sugar/water ratios...

1 lb cane sugar
3 cups hot water
1 tsp citric acid

1. mixed in a large Pyrex bowl to dissolve
2. placed in oven set on 300 (lowest convection setting possible on my oven)
3. waited several hours until the slightest color change was noticed, syrup temps mid 200s
4. raised oven to 325, then 350
5. monitored syrup temps with infrared thermometer, upper/high 200s
6. nice low simmer/bubbles, never added any water, no boil over or concerning activity
7. color changed starting with amber, then reddish, dark brown to finally black over next 2 hours.
8. pulled bowl and slowly added 3 oz water and stirred
9. saved to mason jars

please looks at finished jars and guess as to D-rating...45, 90, 180, 240?

next time will cut water in half to speed the process.

 

[DonT]

Interesting... I never realized you could use an oven to make the syrup. That other thread just talked about doing it on a stove top and having to stir it constantly, to keep it from burning. An oven applies the heat from all around.... I think I need to try this.
Have you tasted them yet?

 

[Witherby]

The oven method definitely works well, but I think these are invert sugars, not Candi syrups, which are neutralized if started as invert sugars and DAP (or a nitrogen source?) in order to start the Maillard reaction instead of just pyrolysis.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...and-belgian-candi-sugar.420644/#post-10317889

 

[DuncB]

agreed you have made invert number 3 by the looks of it.

Did you neutralise the acid with any bicarb? That is an important step in the making of the invert syrup.

Well worth a read as the ingredients and process is well explained.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I was going to say what @Witherby posted.
I think you need to caramellise the sugar a bit initially then revert it back to an alkaline state and let maillard processes do the darkening and flavouring.

 

[odie]

So use yeast nutrient instead of citric acid to make candi and not invert?

took it to a local brewery yesterday and the brew master tasted it. He thought it was fine but suggested less citric acid...maybe a 1/4 tsp instead of a full tsp.

without some commercial candi syrup to do a side-by-side comparison, it's really hard to say how it came out.

 

[MaxStout]

You only need a little bit of acid to act as a catalyst, so 1/4 tsp sounds about right. Alternatively, you could use cream of tartar for your next invert batch--less flavor impact.

 

[odie]

You only need a little bit of acid to act as a catalyst, so 1/4 tsp sounds about right. Alternatively, you could use cream of tartar for your next invert batch--less flavor impact.

well I already had citric acid so that's what I used.

can I skip the acid and use yeast nutrient instead? trying to achieve a more "candi" than "invert" outcome I guess...

or are you supposed to use BOTH and acid and something alkaline? Probably not at the same time...

 

[MaxStout]

well I already had citric acid so that's what I used.

can I skip the acid and use yeast nutrient instead? trying to achieve a more "candi" than "invert" outcome I guess...

or are you supposed to use BOTH and acid and something alkaline? Probably not at the same time...

One or the other. With acid you create invert. With DAP, you get the Maillard reactions to make candi.

 

[kevin58]

I was going to say it looks like invert sugar but held back because I'm not educated enough on the subject. Glad others who know more than I do chimed in.

 

[odie]

One or the other. With acid you create invert. With DAP, you get the Maillard reactions to make candi.

cool...I'll use some yeast nutrient next batch and see what the different result is

 

[DuncB]

Take some of your invert sugar and add a little bicarbonate of soda to it.
You'll find it will change that citric acid taste.
If you are particularly fussy weigh the bicarb so that you can account for the ions in your water profile / additions.

You will also change the taste of your Invert sugar by using different sugars such as some less refined sugar, ie muscovado, demerera, coconut sugar.

I use the home made inverts in british ales, milds and then the Candi syrup variants for belgian beers.

I would recommend that you use DAP wine nutrient rather than beer yeast nutrient, they are slightly different formulations.

Don't hurry the process when you use a pan or as is mentioned in the 20lb thread don't get tempted and lick the spoon!

 

[Agent]

I blame yall for today's misfortune.

 

[DuncB]

You were warned!!
A stick mess.

 

[DonT]

View attachment 867530
I blame yall for today's misfortune.

This is exactly what I was afraid of doing....

 

[Agent]

Luckily it's induction, so cleanup was limited to sugar goo rather than carbonized sugar.

Ended up with a mega burned marshmallow flavor this time.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Don't boil it too hard, low-medium heat and patience is your friend.

 

[odie]

how much yeast nutrient for 1lb of sugar?

 

[mashdar]

I wonder in 10 hours at 250F in a pressure cooker would produce good results.

 

[odie]

I wonder in 10 hours at 250F in a pressure cooker would produce good results.

maybe...seems temp control is key to getting a specific "D" number. The stove top you can't dial in a temp so must add water and constantly monitor it seems.

In a controlled temp environment it's apparently much more forgiving.

But at a set temp, it will take time until the contents also reach that temp.

 

[Agent]

In a pressure cooker, things quickly come up to temperature due to the steam. I personally use an oven - either set to 250F or up to 300F in this case.

I follow the https://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2013/10/belgian-candi-sugar-ii.html?m=1 method which uses lye for pH adjustment and DME (or malted milk powder when I run out) as the nutrient.

 

[DuncB]

how much yeast nutrient for 1lb of sugar?

Read this

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-lb-of-sugar-and-a-jar-of-yeast-nutrient.114837/

 

[odie]

Read this

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-lb-of-sugar-and-a-jar-of-yeast-nutrient.114837/

I've read that before. I have it printed out for my files. Just one of many methods and recipes I've encountered.

Was asking if someone had their own personal "formula" and not for a link to someone else's recipe.

Comparing and contrasting several methods.

Several different recipes that all trend in the same direction is a good indicator.

 

[DuncB]

All I can say is that I used that formula on several occasions for different types of candi syrup and I liked the results.

Maybe you'll need to try all the different recipes and decide which one you like or setup a poll.

 

[odie]

All I can say is that I used that formula on several occasions for different types of candi syrup and I liked the results.

Maybe you'll need to try all the different recipes and decide which one you like or setup a poll.

well I'll give it a shot on the next batch

 

[DuncB]

Standing by to hear how it goes.

 

[Will Hansard]

i'm been inverting sugar for years, many hundreds of times. currently i use 1 pound of sugar and 3/8 cup water each in 2 separate quart jars in a 700 watt microwave. it takes about 28 minutes to get to temp, and time after that to continue inverting and darkening. i would say less than 1/16 teaspoon of kool aid lemonade sugar free mix, in each jar. cool or hot weather changes the temp. i measure the sugar by weight on a scale, and get the water with a 1/8 cup scoop. i measure the temps with a laser pointer infrared gun.

 

[DuncB]

Well done, but what about your candi syrup technique?

 

[Will Hansard]

i was just being specific because boil overs are so horrible. several months ago i tried to use star san as the acid, and that made a huge mess. i used 1/8 tsp of citric acid in each jar today.