first all grain saison attempt. Any advice?

[Turfgrass]

Hi all, I’m going to attempt my first saison this weekend and I’m interested in any advise for the first time saison brewer.

I plan on using German Pils, white wheat, Munich and acidulated for the grains. Syrian and EKG for pellitized hops.

Wyeast French Saison 3711

Yeast nutrient and Irish Moss @ 15 min.

I’m still thinking about the water profile and grist ratio.....my home tap water is “hard”, so I was thinking of doing a 50/50 ratio of tap water to either bottled ro or di/ro from my filter. Some of the articles that I’ve read on saison brew water was brewed with “hard water”, but I’m a bit worried about the ph at mash and boil.

Any advice on water profile, mash rest, fermentation temps or the like would be much appreciated. Thank you and Happy 4th of July!

 

[couchsending]

Don’t use 3711... sure it’s easy and will make a Saison but there are other yeasts out there that will make a much more interesting Saison. 3726 is just as fast and easy to use and is much more interesting. Or blend some 3711 with 3724 to easily avoid the stall but provide the awesome character of DuPont. Wlp566 would be great too.

If using 3711 don’t ferment it too warm but the others are awesome at 80 and above.

Saisons should have a decent amount of minerality but yes PH should be first and foremost. I prefer a decent amount of CaSo4 and some NaCl personally.

Saisons need be to be bone dry. Every single commercial example that serves as a reference for the style finishes at 1.006 or lower. If just a single infusion mash somewhere between 144 and 148 is your best bet.

Don’t force carb it! Bottle conditioning and high carbonation levels are super important. Aim for at least 3.0 volumes but you’ll need heavy glass. If you’re kegging then keg conditioning works great too, you’ll just need some longer lines and/or flow control to serve it properly.

 

[catdaddy66]

Mash low, ferment warm, be patient.

3711 and Belle Saison yeast are the two I use. They may not give all of the yeast character or funkiness but will get you a bone dry beer!

Love me some saison!

 

[couchsending]

I've never tried it but I bet you could use 1g of Belle Saison blended with a normal pitch of 3724
and get a very dry beer with the profile of 3724 and no stalling.

one of these days i'll have to try it

 

[Turfgrass]

Couchsending- do you add corn sugar when bottling? I do have a keg I can transfer to for conditioning. Do you cold crash?

What’s a time line from pitch to bottling/keg? I could cold crash and leave in a keg for as long as needed. My basement only ranges from 60-66 depending on time of year.

 

[couchsending]

Lately I’ve been transferring to a keg and lagering for two weeks then adding dextrose and a little more dry yeast (although I’m not convinced that’s necessary) bottling off the keg with a beer gun before carbonation has begun, and then letting them condition warm for two weeks in bottles.

Most Belgian bottle conditioning is done north of 70* from everything I’ve read, except Orval. Blaugies conditions their beers for 30 days before distributing (not sure the temp) and I believe DuPont is 45 days at 75, but I have to double check that.

 

[dmtaylor]

Belle Saison = 3711.

My advice is to keep it simple, and be very patient. Your recipe looks great. Do NOT cold crash and do not rack to secondary too early. This yeast is sluggish and it can take up to 5 weeks from pitch to packaging. It will seem like fermentation is done after just a week... but it's NOT. Let it go. It can take a long time to get down to a final gravity of 1.002, but be patient and it will get there.

I ferment at about 65 F, then raise temperature to the 70s after the first week to help the yeast finish up.

 

[brewbama]

I believe Belle Saison is a Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus so it converts dextrose to reach its full attenuation. It takes a bit of extra time to do this apparently.

 

[Desert_Sky]

dont get too drunk.

 

[Turfgrass]

I just realized that The Syrian hops that I received were much lower in A.A. then planned. Would Centennial or Columbus work as a 60 min addition?

 

[Turfgrass]

Temperature is always a consideration and I don’t have a chiller, so I ended buying some Saison 1 (WLP565 ) yeast. The thinking is this yeast likes warmer temps and I will be able to better match what the yeast like. I will give the French 3711 a go when the house cools a tad and I can use my heater to control fermentation temps.

 

[ProblemChild]

following - getting ready for my first attempt in August

 

[Turfgrass]

Belle Saison = 3711.

It can take a long time to get down to a final gravity of 1.002, but be patient and it will get there.

I ferment at about 65 F, then raise temperature to the 70s after the first week to help the yeast finish up.

So, is the wort sitting on the trub until it reaches 1.002 when it can take a long time to reach FG?

 

[dmtaylor]

So, is the wort sitting on the trub until it reaches 1.002 when it can take a long time to reach FG?

Yes, that is best. I have kept beers including my saisons in primary for up to 6-7 weeks many many times without negative consequence. No worries.

 

[Turfgrass]

And then you condition for a couple weeks before bottle carbonation?

Yes, that is best. I have kept beers including my saisons in primary for up to 6-7 weeks many many times without negative consequence. No worries.

 

[dmtaylor]

And then you condition for a couple weeks before bottle carbonation?

Optional but not a bad idea.