First all-grain is great! Now what?

[HuskerBrewer]

New to the forum, but been lurking and researching for a while now. I'm pretty new to homebrewing but transitioned to all-grain brewing after a handful of extract batches. My first all-grain was a Saison that I put together after looking at a bunch of different recipes and here's the quick version:

Style: Saison
Volume: 5 gal
Yeast: WLP 565

Grains:
8.5lbs Belgian Pilsner
3lbs Dark Munich
.5lbs Honey malt
.5lbs Golden naked oats

Hops:
.5oz Perle (9.7% AA) @ 60 min
1oz Kent Goldings (7.2% AA) @30 min
1oz Kent Goldings (7.2% AA) @ 15 min

Single infusion mash at 148 F for 60 min
Boiled for 60 minutes and had an OG of 1.054
Chilled to between 70-75 F and directly pitched the yeast (no starter)

Two weeks in primary at 68 F, then racked to secondary and put in a room that varied between 70 F and 80 F for another two weeks(I used a little space heater to keep it on the warmer side). Cold crashed for one day then kegged. Final gravity of 1.008

So here's my issue. The beer seems really great, and everyone who's also tried it seems to really like it as well. It's slightly tart and fruity and seems well balanced between the hops and malt. I've gotten lots of compliments and a few that said they would easily pay money for this in a bar. I'm no tasting expert, but I can't detect any significant flaws or off-flavors (I do realize a Saison is pretty forgiving in that respect). Why am I saying I have an issue? Because I highly doubt that in my first attempt at all-grain brewing that I've mastered the process or crafted an amazing recipe.

So how do you more experienced brewers go about evaluating things and making adjustments? I'm not savvy enough to take a swig and think things like "hmm, needs 1lb Marris Otter, or adjust the hop schedule, or change the mash temp to 152 F". It's pretty overwhelming to think about all the buttons and knobs one can turn to adjust the final product when going all-grain. But I don't necessarily want to brew the same beer over and over while adjusting one thing at a time. I also don't want everything to turn into a game of find-the-flaw-in-this-beer either (sometimes you just want to DRINK a beer, know what I mean?). I guess I'm just looking for advice from more advanced brewers on how they've learned to tweak recipes and evaluate those changes. Thanks!

 

[Cyclman]

Take a bottle into a homebrew shop, they usually have at least one guy with an excellent palate, or even a judge.

Or it could be you just made a great beer, try more styles, there's lots to explore. I'm in my exploratory phase, gaining practice and learning what I enjoy.

 

[kh54s10]

I really don't know if my beers taste as they should. I too, do not have a sophisticated palate. I do know that I like my beers.

I have only brewed one beer multiple times. (trying to get it the way I want it to be). So far the "tweaking" of this one has not been a total success.

I have done a lot of different styles and enjoy the differences. One I like is brown ales, I have made several, all different.

So for me I don't worry too much that my beer is totally right. I just take something that looks like I would like it and either do that recipe or try something to change it to something interesting.

 

[helibrewer]

Sounds like a great Saison. What are your goals? I wanted to get familiar with a lot of styles so I brewed a lot of recipes from Brewing Classic Styles. Some guys want to really play with a single style by varying yeasts, ferm temps, hops, etc. Many Saisons also use spices so there is that whole track also.

Personally I brew mostly European Continentel styles (German, Belgian, and some English). I think the IPA has been beat to death and in almost 30 years have never brewed one...so if you and your friends think it's a damn fine beer then by god, it's a damn fine beer!!! Now, decide what your next damn fine beer is going to be and go brew it!

Competitions are good feedback but they are designed around the specific beer styles so you need to understand the criteria if you want to do well. They really don't indicate whether your beer is a great beer, just whether your beer represents the style in a great way....there's a difference.

 

[stpug]

Be honest with yourself AND be your own worst critic - you'll find things that need improvement

 

[jro238]

Sounds like a really solid process. Interesting use of the 3lb dark munich (not saying it wouldn't be good, just that I haven't seen that in too many saisons).

Hope your next brew goes as well

 

[duboman]

Go to Www.bjcp.org and look up the style, at the bottom they will list good commercial examples of the style. Buy a bottle of something and do a side by side and compare.

The style guidelines will also give you a typical grain bill and tasting notes to evaluate. By this reference and your own recipe you can begin to learn what may or may not be needed or missing.

Congrats, it sounds like it went well and you brewed a great beer!

 

[dachbach]

I've found that it is difficult to unbiasedly judge my beers. It's also tough to get real feedback from people you know. If I really want good feedback, I'll buy 4 or 5 commercial beers of the same style and do a blind taste test with friends and family. I have everyone take notes about what they like and don't like about each beer and then rate them. Then when you see what people said about your beer compared to others, it can give some valuable feedback.

 

[jrgtr42]

If you're happy with the results, I don't see the problem.
I presume you kept notes as to your process and procedure, so you can replicate it if need be.
Why not move on to another style? I usually look for recipes that seem interesting, and usually tweak them here and there for what I have available to me and what I may or may not like about it as written.

 

[Cider123]

Send me a bunch and I'll tell you what I think. Not that my opinion is worth squirt, but I'd be happy to drink your beers

 

[HuskerBrewer]

I've found that it is difficult to unbiasedly judge my beers. It's also tough to get real feedback from people you know. If I really want good feedback, I'll buy 4 or 5 commercial beers of the same style and do a blind taste test with friends and family. I have everyone take notes about what they like and don't like about each beer and then rate them. Then when you see what people said about your beer compared to others, it can give some valuable feedback.

That's a good idea! Not sure where I'm going to dig up 4 or 5 Saisons this time of year though

I guess I'll just try and keep really good tasting notes in addition to notes on the brewing process so I can try and remember what it tasted like if I try this one again (which I will next summer). Maybe I'll stash a bottle away as well for reference.

 

[IslandLizard]

Brew what you like to drink. If you feel like doing another saison, go for it. Keep it the same or change something, hops, grains, or add some spices/herbs or fruit. 25% of Dark Munich is definitely not standard, so that must have added some color and a nice malty flavor.

Those naked oats, were they malted oats or raw?

 

[chri5]

If I'm brewing a new style, I like to buy 3-4 different beers in that style and try them while I'm building my recipe. That way I can have an idea what I am trying to brew, and then see how close I came to hitting the mark.

Try different things, whether it's trying to brew to a style, or put together something that sounds good/interesting. It's a fun hobby that way.

 

[HuskerBrewer]

Brew what you like to drink. If you feel like doing another saison, go for it. Keep it the same or change something, hops, grains, or add some spices/herbs or fruit. 25% of Dark Munich is definitely not standard, so that must have added some color and a nice malty flavor.

Those naked oats, were they malted oats or raw?

I can't even remember where I picked up the Dark Munich for the recipe as I was looking at lots of different versions when I put it together. It does have a nice color, but actually I would maybe try and make it a tinge more malty the next time. So there you go, I found what I'd do different, but I'm don't necessarily know how what grains to adjust to make it that way off the top of my head.

I believe the oats are lightly malted. I got them at my LBS, but the NB website describes them as "10° L. Sweet berry-nut flavor. Use to add a deep golden hue, light caramel flavors, and a creamy, satiny finish."

 

[stevehardt]

Having fun brewing + brewing a beer you and your buddy like = success.

The rest is just details