Quantcast

Firestone Walker Wookey Jack Clone Attempt

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

OP
skeezerpleezer

skeezerpleezer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
2,664
Reaction score
733
Location
Brookhaven, GA
Going to try this by the end of the month. Just missing the Midnight Wheat, which is very hard to find in Brazil but luckily found a HBS that sells it.

Still not sure if I am going with the 04 or 05...never had the chance to try this beer, found this thread by accident while looking for ideas for a Black IPA!!
Out of those 2 I would use the S-04
 

runningfarmer

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
66
Reaction score
7
Location
Davenport
I use so4 and taste test with Firestone Walker. The taste was identical and actually better because the hop was fresher, because we live so far from the brewery that in the brewery version, the hops had faded. Be sure to keep so4 in the low 60s. There is a lot of food in this wort, or the temperatures will take off and go to high.
 

mkyl428

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
920
Reaction score
229
Location
OKC
Brewed this bad boy up yesterday, subbed Blackprinz for the carafa III and went ahead and threw in a full 2 oz ea. of Amarillo & Citra @ flameout instead of 1.75 oz ea.

I hit 1.082 for my OG, wort smelled amazing, I'm excited for this one!!!
 

dignifiedb

Active Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
Location
Ada
The original recipe calls for dry hopping 1 oz each of Amarillo & Citra for 3 days and then removing those hops to add another 1 oz each of Amarillo & Citra for 4 days.

For those who have brewed this, have you removed the first dry hop after three days? Is it necessary, or can I just add an additional 1 oz of Amarillo & Citra after three days without removing the first dry hop? If I don't remove them, will there be a noticeable difference in how it turns out?
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
The original recipe calls for dry hopping 1 oz each of Amarillo & Citra for 3 days and then removing those hops to add another 1 oz each of Amarillo & Citra for 4 days.

For those who have brewed this, have you removed the first dry hop after three days? Is it necessary, or can I just add an additional 1 oz of Amarillo & Citra after three days without removing the first dry hop? If I don't remove them, will there be a noticeable difference in how it turns out?
Shouldn't be an issue, if you keg try adding the second dry hop addition directly to the keg, that will impart a nice hoppy aroma for every pour.
 

TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,523
Reaction score
1,448
Location
Gainesville
Just opened and tried this beer for the first time and went straight to look for a recipe... That smell!! I can't wait to make this in August thanks for all the hard work guys!
 

TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,523
Reaction score
1,448
Location
Gainesville
What would be the effects of lowering the boil and mash time to 60 minutes? Sure would be nice to save off an hour during this brew day.
Reducing the mash time would decrease the conversion of the starches. Since this recipe has such a large grain bill, the longer mash is a good idea.

The long boil time is to increase the hop bitterness with the 90 minute hop addition as well as carmalize some of the sugars and slightly change the taste. You could decrease the boil time, in theory, if you increased your 60 minute hop addition and boiled very vigorously.
 

olotti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
224
Location
Lansing
Anyone try this with 001 or any Cali ale yeast and notice any big differences.
 

mtnagel

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
372
Location
Cincinnati
Reducing the mash time would decrease the conversion of the starches. Since this recipe has such a large grain bill, the longer mash is a good idea.
Thanks. I BIAB, so I double crush, and I stir 3-4 times during the mash, so I feel like that helps with speeding up the conversion. And I'm lowing the OG to get lower ABV, so that will help too.

The long boil time is to increase the hop bitterness with the 90 minute hop addition as well as carmalize some of the sugars and slightly change the taste. You could decrease the boil time, in theory, if you increased your 60 minute hop addition and boiled very vigorously.
Well I'm using hop extract (I bought in bulk and have a ton) and it increases the amount by 0.4 ml, so I'm okay with that.

I think I'll give it a try and see what happens. I've brewed this 2 previous times and it was a great recipe, so we'll see if I notice.
 

TheHairyHop

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
984
Reaction score
214
Location
Boulder
Thanks. I BIAB, so I double crush, and I stir 3-4 times during the mash, so I feel like that helps with speeding up the conversion. And I'm lowing the OG to get lower ABV, so that will help too.

Well I'm using hop extract (I bought in bulk and have a ton) and it increases the amount by 0.4 ml, so I'm okay with that.

I think I'll give it a try and see what happens. I've brewed this 2 previous times and it was a great recipe, so we'll see if I notice.
You should just mash until conversion. You may want to check out iodine conversion testing. You may end up saving time on every brew that you make.

If you want to do a shorter boil, just calculate the amount of oil/hops needed for 60 minutes. If you really wanted to, you could pull out a gallon of the wort and give it a good boil on the stove
 

TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,523
Reaction score
1,448
Location
Gainesville
Thanks. I BIAB, so I double crush, and I stir 3-4 times during the mash, so I feel like that helps with speeding up the conversion. And I'm lowing the OG to get lower ABV, so that will help too.
I BIAB as well, just be aware that conversion efficiency decreases as gravity increases. The more sugar dissolved into the water, the harder it is to get it out of the grain. So you might see a significant drop in efficiency with a shorter mash.

Also, lowering the gravity might make this a very very bitter beer since the high ABV and high FG are there to offset the hops. I recently made a recipe based on this and actually increased the ABV with good results. I hope your brew comes out great! :mug:
 

Foosier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
539
Reaction score
115
Location
Indianapolis
FYI... Brew Your Own magazine had a feature on Firestone Walker which included a Clone recipe for Wookey Jack. Check it out.
 

mtnagel

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
372
Location
Cincinnati
You should just mash until conversion. You may want to check out iodine conversion testing. You may end up saving time on every brew that you make.

If you want to do a shorter boil, just calculate the amount of oil/hops needed for 60 minutes. If you really wanted to, you could pull out a gallon of the wort and give it a good boil on the stove
Good idea on the conversion test.

I did calculate the hops and it's a small, trivial amount extra needed.

I BIAB as well, just be aware that conversion efficiency decreases as gravity increases. The more sugar dissolved into the water, the harder it is to get it out of the grain. So you might see a significant drop in efficiency with a shorter mash.

Also, lowering the gravity might make this a very very bitter beer since the high ABV and high FG are there to offset the hops. I recently made a recipe based on this and actually increased the ABV with good results. I hope your brew comes out great! :mug:
I mostly do full volume mashes, so it's pretty thin, even with a bigger beer (compared to 3 vessel AG).

Yeah, I planned on lowering the bittering hops a smidge, but not really much the aroma or dry hops. We're talking about a 0.007 drop in OG, so it's not like it's that much.

FYI... Brew Your Own magazine had a feature on Firestone Walker which included a Clone recipe for Wookey Jack. Check it out.
Thanks.
 

TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,523
Reaction score
1,448
Location
Gainesville
Good idea on the conversion test.
The standard iodine test only tells you if the starches that have dissolved into the wort are fully converted. You would have to grind up and test some of the grist itself to make sure that the available starch in the grain is converted. This second one is usually the issue with a large grain bill.
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
FYI... Brew Your Own magazine had a feature on Firestone Walker which included a Clone recipe for Wookey Jack. Check it out.
Awesome... I have a subscription, do you remember which year/month it was? I may have missed it...
 

mtnagel

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
372
Location
Cincinnati
Can someone post a picture? Would love to see the differences. I'm brewing tomorrow, so already bought everything, but could change it up next time (this is my 3rd time brewing this recipe - I love it).
 

cbier60

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
183
Reaction score
76
Location
Atlanta
Brewed this today on National Homebrew Day. Made quite a few minor changes because of ingredient availability, but I'm still expecting an awesome brew. One thing I noticed is that all the colors were listed as SRM, but it looks like these should have actually been °L. That may explain the difference in reported vs calculated color. I know, color is the last thing I pay attention to, but this seems like a minor discrepancy. No I haven't reviewed all 51 pages of this thread; I'm just commenting relative to post 1 (and I know there's a limited time that edits can be made).

Really looking forward to my 1st black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale.
 

Malty_Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
843
Reaction score
133
Location
York
FYI... Brew Your Own magazine had a feature on Firestone Walker which included a Clone recipe for Wookey Jack. Check it out.
I just brewed up the BYO version yesterday. Based on feedback from FW, BYO states to add first DH on day 4 of primary, which will be something new for me. Bubbling away at 65-66F right now.
 

Malty_Dog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
843
Reaction score
133
Location
York
Mmmm...the hydro sample at 7 days showing 76% attenuation (1.073 - 1.017) and its already pretty smooth, complex and deliciously hoppy! Didn't do the step mash unfortunately (equipment issues), just a single 75 minute mash at 152-153. Next time will mash lower or do step. I went with the R/O water and mineral additions per BYO. Very pleased to finally make this one - been wanting to since I got the issue at the end of the year last year.:rockin:
 

Terek

"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
249
Location
Nampa
thought id resurrect this post. im brewing this recipe for like the millionth time. It is so insainly good. You must try it if you never have. Kinda spendy, but worth it
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
thought id resurrect this post. im brewing this recipe for like the millionth time. It is so insainly good. You must try it if you never have. Kinda spendy, but worth it
Definitely is... And Firestone is retiring the beer too so makes this recipe even more important to have around! This is typically my winter beer... Time permitting I brew it every year.
 

juggabrew

juggabrew303
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
295
Reaction score
61
Location
Denver
Haven't brewed this in a few years so haven't been following post. Think I might brew it up after the new year, any changes from original? Is the BYO version similar?

Why would they be retiring this gold standard?
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
Haven't brewed this in a few years so haven't been following post. Think I might brew it up after the new year, any changes from original? Is the BYO version similar?

Why would they be retiring this gold standard?
I think is quite close to the byo recipe but if not, I'd go with that one. Either way, the recipe here is spot on and delicious.

FW said they just want to start experimenting more and unfortunately this one got cut. There's some speculation that this is going go come back as a limited release however...
 

juggabrew

juggabrew303
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
295
Reaction score
61
Location
Denver
I don't have BYO, only zymurgy. They have a recipe as well. That's pretty close to this one. Just curious if someone could post the BYO one to compare or the differences.
 

Terek

"Did I just drop down a rabbit hole?"
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
249
Location
Nampa
this recipe is spot on, if you follow all the directions. Especially the step mash schedule, and dual dry hop schedule. Those are the keys top success on this on. Im brewing it again tomorrow morning
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
this recipe is spot on, if you follow all the directions. Especially the step mash schedule, and dual dry hop schedule. Those are the keys top success on this on. Im brewing it again tomorrow morning
It sure is! And that's great news considering the beer has been retired by FW
 

runningfarmer

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
66
Reaction score
7
Location
Davenport
This mothers milk. I have made this probably 10 times. I have used S-04 and switched to 1318 yeast with brun-water pale ale water. Its a little harshat first but like it blends in 4 or 5 weeks to perfect
 

Javaslinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
121
Reaction score
12
What are the benefits of a 90 minute boil (vs. a 60 min) for this recipe or perhaps the 'Black' IPA style?
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
What are the benefits of a 90 minute boil (vs. a 60 min) for this recipe or perhaps the 'Black' IPA style?
I think it's important for this brew to help you hit your target sg... Uses a lot of malt but also a ton of water so in the event you thin the mash, that extra half hour really helps out.
 

Roady9999

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
First post so here it goes. So everyone knows I am a reader not a poster. This beer is probably my 12th 5-gallon batch with 5 extract and 7 Biab all grain. My question is I hit 1.084 og and was a little concerned wlp002 wouldn't attenuate enough. So I made a big yeast starter and 6 days of fermentation I am at 1.017 and it looks like it is still going. I am already over 8% abv so should I go ahead and dry hop early? I am mostly concerned about bottle conditioning and having enough active yeast to condition within a reasonable amount of time( like 2 weeks).
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
First post so here it goes. So everyone knows I am a reader not a poster. This beer is probably my 12th 5-gallon batch with 5 extract and 7 Biab all grain. My question is I hit 1.084 og and was a little concerned wlp002 wouldn't attenuate enough. So I made a big yeast starter and 6 days of fermentation I am at 1.017 and it looks like it is still going. I am already over 8% abv so should I go ahead and dry hop early? I am mostly concerned about bottle conditioning and having enough active yeast to condition within a reasonable amount of time( like 2 weeks).
How soon do you plan to transfer? I believe the recipe actually calls for the first round of dry hopping within three days left of active fermentation (Matt from FW is an advocate of this as he thinks it yields better aromas). It actually helps because the hops will introduce a little bit of oxygen. The yeast remaining to attenuate will eat that up and you'll be left with those amazing aromas.

It's such a fun beer to make, I think the first time I made it I did the same and mine finished at 9.5%!
 

Javaslinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
121
Reaction score
12
This mothers milk. I have made this probably 10 times. I have used S-04 and switched to 1318 yeast with brun-water pale ale water. Its a little harshat first but like it blends in 4 or 5 weeks to perfect
Interesting.. I just tried mine after 2 weeks in a bottle and it is a bit harsh. Glad to hear it mellows out and blends a bit!
 

Roady9999

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
How soon do you plan to transfer? I believe the recipe actually calls for the first round of dry hopping within three days left of active fermentation (Matt from FW is an advocate of this as he thinks it yields better aromas). It actually helps because the hops will introduce a little bit of oxygen. The yeast remaining to attenuate will eat that up and you'll be left with those amazing aromas.

It's such a fun beer to make, I think the first time I made it I did the same and mine finished at 9.5%!
Maybe I read this wrong from the original corrected recipe but I interpreted 3 days of dry hopping after active fermentation. Dry hopping during active fermentation would kinda be a take away from the NEIPA style from my understanding. Specifically another poster indicated(not OP) dry hopping starts at 1.017. I feel like I read every page of this thread and biotransformation hopping was not mentioned at all. Maybe a couple of guys who have brewed this a bunch can clarify that point. I agree with you as that type of hopping yields a smoother taste. thank you for your advice about the abv as mine might approach 9% after bottling. After reading your post I went ahead and dry hopped today I still have some active fermentation going. I will remove in 3 days and add second dry hop. So another question if you bottle do you guys bottle at 10 day, 14 days or 21 days. Then I guess its a waiting game for the beer to mature.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
910
Reaction score
117
Thinking of brewing this soon. I have everything except the WLP002. Would London III 1318 be OK? I also have Mangrove Jacks M42 and US-05. Doesn't have to be an exact clone but I guess 1318 would be closest?:mug:
 

samandbekah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
259
Reaction score
19
Location
Syracuse
Maybe I read this wrong from the original corrected recipe but I interpreted 3 days of dry hopping after active fermentation. Dry hopping during active fermentation would kinda be a take away from the NEIPA style from my understanding. Specifically another poster indicated(not OP) dry hopping starts at 1.017. I feel like I read every page of this thread and biotransformation hopping was not mentioned at all. Maybe a couple of guys who have brewed this a bunch can clarify that point. I agree with you as that type of hopping yields a smoother taste. thank you for your advice about the abv as mine might approach 9% after bottling. After reading your post I went ahead and dry hopped today I still have some active fermentation going. I will remove in 3 days and add second dry hop. So another question if you bottle do you guys bottle at 10 day, 14 days or 21 days. Then I guess its a waiting game for the beer to mature.
How did this end up turning out for you? I missed your response but hopefully it turned out well. I've brewed this beer half a dozen times and I've missed one thing or another and it always ends up delicious.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
910
Reaction score
117
Thinking of brewing this soon. I have everything except the WLP002. Would London III 1318 be OK? I also have Mangrove Jacks M42 and US-05. Doesn't have to be an exact clone but I guess 1318 would be closest?:mug:
I didn't brew this yet but it's on the list for my next brew session in September.
I still don't have the wlp002 but I do have wlp005 British ale and London III 1318.
which one would be the better option?
I'm guessing wlp005?

Thanks :cask:
 
Top