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Firestone Walker Wookey Jack Clone Attempt

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skeezerpleezer

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I brought home a few bombers of Firestone Walker Wookey Jack from California recently, and man is it good. Unfortunately, FW isn't available in the Atlanta area, so I guess it is time to start working on a clone. What I do know:

From Firestone Walker's website:
Style: Unfiltered Black Rye IPA
ABV: 8.5%
Malts: Pale Malt, Malted Rye, Dash of Cara-Rye, Midnight Wheat from Briess, De-Bittered Black Malt (Weyermann - Germany/Patagonia malting - Chile), Dash of Wookey dust
Hops: German Magnum (bittering), Citra & Amarillo (flavor/aroma and double dry-hopped)


From craftbeer.com, the color is 45 SRM.

I read somewhere that someone degassed a bottle and the FG was 1.015. That would put the OG at 1.080 to get the 8.5%.

Some of the other FW clones, including the CYBI ones, use a 90 minute boil.

Firestone uses English yeast in a lot of their other beers, so I have chosen WLP002.

I may also try to send FW an email...does anyone know if they usually respond? Here is what I am thinking for right now, but it is just something I threw together quickly. Feedback would be appreciated. I probably won't be brewing this for at least a couple weeks, so have some time to make some modifications. :rockin:

**edit: I got some feedback from Matt from Firestone Walker and changed the recipe. He is a helluva guy, and they make great beer...go buy some

Brew Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 7.46 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 7.46 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.1 %
1.66 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 9.9 %
0.50 lb Cara-Rye (70.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 lb Wheat (Midnight) (550.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 oz Magnum [13.00%] (90 min) Hops 20.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (25 min) Hops 24.8 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (25 min) Hops 17.0 IBU
1.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min) Hops -
1.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop#1 3 days) Hops -remove then add dryhop #2
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop#1 3 days) Hops -remove then add dryhop #2
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop #2 4 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop #2 4 days) Hops -

1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter 2500 ml]

Mash @ 145-148 for 60 min
Increase to 155 for 10 min, then sparge

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 39.6 SRM
Bitterness: 61.8 IBU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 8.6 %


Ferment at ~62 for 10 days.

2012-05-18_16-16-30_523.jpg
 

mhenry41h

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Living in midstate PA makes FW hard to find. I managed to find some Double Jack & Reserve Porter in Philly last fall...both are tremendous. Matt Brynildson is a true talent. I can't wait to try some Wookey Jack.
 

MedicineMan

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Iv been thinking about trying to make a clone of this beer, let us know how it turns out if you make it. I live in CA and am lucky enough to be able to get FS full time but even this beer is hard to get a hold of.
 

sjanz

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I'm also curious to hear how this turns out. I will ask a few questions at my LHBS next week and get back with you. They are pretty good at working on clones.
 

AnchorBock

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I have not had this beer, but have listened to the Firestone Walker CYBI podcasts several times as I found them to be very informative (especially since I use WLP002 in so many beers) so I'm just throwing a few things out there. I'm making the assumption that they follow their normal procedures/ingredients for this beer (particularly those of Union Jack).

I'd get rid of the 15 and 5 minute additions, do a small 30 minute addition, and load up the 0 minute and dry hopping a bit more - that would bring the hopping more in line with Union Jack (which would make sense). They typically whirlpool hot for 25-30 minutes, so I'd let the hops steep in the hot wort after flameout for the same amount of time (in the Union Jack show, Tasty was convinced this made a huge difference and gave him the mouthfeel he'd been looking for in other beers).

In the podcasts it sounded like Matt describes their "base malt" as typically having 2 row, Munich and Carapils (see Union Jack and Pale 31 to decide on what percentages you'd use). He likes this combo because it's almost like Marris Otter, but not quite as rich (I think he even said MO can give the perception of diacetyl). I wouldn't be surprised if this beer still had the Munich and Carapils even though it has the Rye and the dark malts.

I'd also follow their standard mashing protocol (145 for around 60 minutes, 155 for around 10 more minutes - see other recipes?). You probably aren't going to get a 1.080 beer down to 1.015 using WLP002 mashing at 150F.

For fermentation temp - I'd pitch around 62F and let it rise to 66F over 24 hours. Increase the temp as fermentation slows to keep the 002 working. I typically end up around 70F by day 6 or 7 (usually leave it a few more days then keg unless dry hopping) when using 002. They typically do the first dry hop charge when the beer is within about half a degree plato, so around 1.017 in this case.

Hope this helps, I might have to try something like this next time I want a CDA.
 

mhenry41h

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I'd seriously consider emailing the recipe to Matt and see what he thinks. One thing that I know about his brewing theory is that he likes to dry out all of his beers. In fact, I once heard an interview in which he said that he mashes almost every beer at 148F. If 1.080 is the OG and 1.015 is the FG AND he is using a lower attenuating British yeast...you'd be pushing it using 002 to get 76% attenuation. (even at 148F) I'd consider using 007 (Dry English)
 
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skeezerpleezer

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Thanks for the input. I will email Matt tonight or tomorrow and see if he would be willing to give any feedback.
 

AnchorBock

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I'd seriously consider emailing the recipe to Matt and see what he thinks. One thing that I know about his brewing theory is that he likes to dry out all of his beers. In fact, I once heard an interview in which he said that he mashes almost every beer at 148F. If 1.080 is the OG and 1.015 is the FG AND he is using a lower attenuating British yeast...you'd be pushing it using 002 to get 76% attenuation. (even at 148F) I'd consider using 007 (Dry English)
I just brewed a 1.070 IPA with the grist of Union Jack on Saturday - mashed at 145 for 60 minutes, raised to 155 over about 8 minutes and let it sit for another 30 minutes before mashout (I normally do a 90 minute mash so I stuck with that). Just took a gravity reading, it's sitting at 1.013 and looks about done (that's 80.4% apparent attenuation). WLP002 can dry out a beer like this just fine if you mash with that in mind.
 

mhenry41h

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That beer sounds terrific! One would definitely have to know what they are doing to get attenuation like that from 002. Most of the people I know who ask me for advice are likely to throw a recipe at me at 1.075 OG with a desired FG of 1.010 doing a single infusion at 154! Lol
 

FarmerTed

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Wookey Jack is an awesome beer. I'm not much into black IPA's, but it was love at first smell for me. That beer has an amazing aroma, right from the moment you crack the cap. I agree with AnchorBock, load up with the late additions and dry hop. I dare you to over-do it.
 
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skeezerpleezer

skeezerpleezer

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I was actually thinking the late additions would probably get increased. I do have about 2.5 lbs of Citra and 1-1.5 lbs of Amarillo....
 

scottland

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http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/2012/04/black-rye-west-coast-ipa.html

I brewed this, without knowing it was going to be the same recipe. I tried wookey jack after. Very close. The keg finally kicked two days ago, I was rather sad. I would simplify your hop additions. FW has a habit of adding hops at 30min, then 0min, followed by a whirlpool. Mash at 145 for 60min then 155 for 10min.

You're yeast is correct, I'd use a pinch more Rye, and much less cararye, like 4oz. (FYI cararye is like 70L, not 175)

EDIT: I threw together a proposed recipe for you:

This is for 5.5gal at 75% eff.

13lbs 2-row
2.5lbs Rye
7oz Midnight Wheat
7oz Carafa III
5oz CaraRye
[email protected] 145 for 60min then 155 for 10min
1oz Warrior @ 90min
1oz Amarillo @ 30min
1oz Citra @ 30min
2oz Amarillo @ 0min
2oz Citra @ 0min
Dry Hop:
2oz ea Amarillo and Citra. Split the additions in half 5 days each.
WLP002. Giant starter.

That puts the OG at 1.081, 15% Rye, 5% debittered malts, 2% cararye
 

Calichusetts

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FW is probably my favorite brewery. I am so glad a local store started carrying them, I have to buy at least a 6er a week just to make sure they never stop selling it!
 
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skeezerpleezer

skeezerpleezer

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Scottland- thanks for the advice. I made a hybrid of my initial recipe and yours and sent it to Matt for his thoughts/advise. He replied (within about 25 minutes), which is really cool, I am sure he has better things to do, like make us more beer! I have updated the original post to reflect his recommendations.

The big thing he recommended was to only dryhop for 3-4 days per dryhop to avoid vegetal flavors. The new grain bill is what he said they use. Can't wait to get this going!
 

scottland

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That's awesome. I just had the same experience with Vinnie from Russian River. Responded to an email with recipe help, which was very cool.

I have to admit, I'm pretty excited that I nearly guessed their recipe. I overshot the rye a little bit, but was other wise dead on.

That should turn out pretty awesome. I can tell you mine was amazing until the last drop. Be excited for this batch, it should be pretty epic!!!
 

mhenry41h

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I've asked Vinnie for help with Black IPA's and despite his prompt and courteous response...doesn't appear to care for the style. He said he's never even run one through his R&D system.
 
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skeezerpleezer

skeezerpleezer

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I haven't really had too many I like. Stone 15th, Wookey Jack, and the Harpoon 100 Barrel one are probably the only ones I have had that I would intentionally seek out again.

Wookey Jack is really good.
 

HItransplant

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Thanks for sharing this recipe--definitely going to give it a shot.
For those of us without the ability to increase mash temp easily, would a 148 reg mash suffice vs. 145x 60, 155x10?

Cheers!
 
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skeezerpleezer

skeezerpleezer

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I mash in a cooler, just planned to run off some wort, bring it to a boil then put back in to raise the temp.
 

mhenry41h

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HItransplant said:
Thanks for sharing this recipe--definitely going to give it a shot.
For those of us without the ability to increase mash temp easily, would a 148 reg mash suffice vs. 145x 60, 155x10?

Cheers!
I just dump my entire mash out of my cooler and into my kettle. Bring it up to your desired temp and dump it back into your mash tun and seal it up...easy peasy!
 

jclucca

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Also, Beersmith can calculate it for you. In a 5.5 gallon batch (of Union Jack) it just has me add 4 quarts of 207.8 degree water to my 10 gallon cooler to bring the mash up to 155.
 

mhenry41h

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jclucca said:
Also, Beersmith can calculate it for you. In a 5.5 gallon batch (of Union Jack) it just has me add 4 quarts of 207.8 degree water to my 10 gallon cooler to bring the mash up to 155.
Good intel! To be honest, I did not know Beersmith would give me that. Where do you find it on Beersmith?
 

jclucca

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Good intel! To be honest, I did not know Beersmith would give me that. Where do you find it on Beersmith?
In your mash profile, add a step and enter the target temp. I also entered the amount of water to add, and it calculated the infusion temp based upon my equipment profile.

I haven't tried it yet, but Beer Smith ALWAYS nails my mash temps dead on, so I trust it in this case too.
 

LarryC

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I just discovered Wookie Jack a month or so ago and as someone else mentioned, it was love at first smell (then taste). FW is a great brewery and I had the pleasure of stopping there last summer on our vacation ( a wine country/brewery tour up the southern CA coast).

After finding so much to like about FW beers, I found that the little bottle shop up the hill from me was selling FW sixers for 6.99 - all the time (except Union Jack). So now I get my Pale 31 on a regular basis, throw in a little Velvet Merkin and now that summers here, some Solstice. As they say, it's all good (especially at 6.99)!

Oh, and Wookie Jack will definitely be my next brew. Thanks for posting the recipe (and the update)!
 
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skeezerpleezer

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I got the ingredients awhile back, still haven't brewed it. Had a few others in line 1st. pumping is tomorrow or Friday, then a trip to Asia, then the Wookey when i get back.
 

ipsiad

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I came across your recipe a few weeks ago and decided to try it out. I brewed it yesterday, and other than a little boil-over issue which might affect the IBUs slightly, everything went well. For the mash I did 145F for 60min and 155 for 10min. After adding the flameout hops I did a 30 minute hot stand then chilled it down.

My main concern is getting the right attenuation. I used Wyeast 1968 and I've gotten 80% attenuation with that yeast in the past, so we'll see what happens. I gave it lots of O2, pitched a giant starter at 60F and set the temp controller to 65F.
 
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skeezerpleezer

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Awesome. Let me know how it comes out. I will be a week behind. The mash came from Matt B at Firestone, so you should be ok. I am making the starter tonight.
 

ipsiad

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Got all of my ingredients, except for Briess Midnight Wheat, from Brewmaster's Warehouse.

I just checked the gravity of mine after 7 days of fermentation, and it's at 1.018 (OG=1.080). Most of the yeast have dropped but I'm guessing it will drop another couple of points before it's completely done.

Hydro sample was really tasty - this is going to turn out great. It's been a while since I had the real Wookey Jack so I'll need to track down a bottle for a proper comparison. If anyone has any leads for finding it in the Chicago area, let me know! It should be hitting shelves right around now.
 
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skeezerpleezer

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I racked mine into a keg and started the first dryhop today. Gravity is currently at 1.016, i am hoping for another point or two. The sample I pulled was excellent, it is going to be close. I'll report back here in a couple weeks after the dryhop and carbing. I picked up 4 Wookey Jacks on a trip last week, so can do a side by side.
 

ipsiad

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My Wookey Jack clone is kegged up and carbing now, should be ready really soon. I also got some WJ bombers for a side-by-side comparison.

Mine finished out right at 1.015, so the Wyeast 1968 works great for this recipe. Due to a variety of reasons (including laziness and going out of town for work) my dryhopping process and schedule was different from what your recipe and Brynildson recommended. After my FG stabilized and all the yeast dropped, I threw the first dry hops directly into the primary (no hop bags), left it for 5 days, threw in the second dry hop, left it for another 5 days, then crash cooled to 32F and racked to a purged keg. I increased my dry hop quantities by 25% figuring I'd lose some hop oils to the yeast. So we'll see how these differences affect the hop profile. I tried a sample while racking to the keg, and WOW is it good. Whether or not it ends up exactly like the original, this one's a winner. There's a slight astringency to it but I'm pretty sure that will fade after about a week in the keg. One thing I noticed is that the Citra/Amarillo dry hops really increased the perceived sweetness of this beer.

I'll report back when mine is properly carbed and conditioned.
 
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