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I take exception to you implying that I don't actually believe what I wrote about Oxbow.

I believe you don't think Oxbow is a top-tier producer of farmhouse ales. I just don't agree with you.

I've had Holy Mountain, Hill Farm, De Garde, SARA, Casey, Side Project, Ale Apothecary, Afterthought, Bokkereyder, Jester King, Fonta Flora, Jolly Pumpkin, Lost Abbey, Fantome, etc. etc. etc. I think they make great beers too.

Everyone is forgetting Suarez (not directed specifically at this but it was last in time)! They are right at the very, very top, in my opinion. Also, thank you.

Sad that I can’t make the event tomorrow as much as I would love to be there. Visiting Oxbow was an incredible experience. I drove home with a keg of FPA last time we visited.

Also, if this keeps up, we’re going to need a FIB Saison Thread, which I certainly wouldn’t complain about :)
 
When I saw a 375 or 500ml bottle? priced at 25 dollars, I passed without hesitation.
I dont think the french or belgian saison makers started brewing this style of beer with intentions of making it unaprochable for the working man, but here we are paying dollars per ounce.


... then again some places locally have charged 125-150$ for 5%abv lambics. lol, might as well save for a plane ticket to Belgium at that rate

For everyone's reference: https://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/fib-war-room.1419/page-1198

Related to above link: The first keg of Oxbow poured in IL? At BT. For free.
 
I take exception to you implying that I don't actually believe what I wrote about Oxbow.

I believe you don't think Oxbow is a top-tier producer of farmhouse ales. I just don't agree with you.

I've had Holy Mountain, Hill Farm, De Garde, SARA, Casey, Side Project, Ale Apothecary, Afterthought, Bokkereyder, Jester King, Fonta Flora, Jolly Pumpkin, Lost Abbey, Fantome, etc. etc. etc. I think they make great beers too.

Not saying you shouldn't advertise here, but you're awful defensive about people challenging your opinion. I think you should expect that people will question your opinions on a beer when you are throwing an event for said brewery. The fact that you're saying for the first time ever that Oxbow makes the best farmhouse beers (in your opinion) right before an event will raise some eyebrows. I never meant to imply that you don't actually believe that, but the timing is what made your comment contentious.

This is still missing the point:

Even if you don't agree with how much quinnsi likes Oxbow (which is, by itself, a silly thing to argue about), he is trying to promote his business, not change your ******* mind. If you don't like their beer or cost of their beer or whatever? Cool. But that doesn't mean there's anything insidious about someone who does also trying to sell it. Because god ******* forbid a business owner promote product that they ACTUALLY LIKE.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a place to talk beer? Is it now just a forum for people to promote their businesses?
 
Not saying you shouldn't advertise here, but you're awful defensive about people challenging your opinion.

You aren't challenging the opinion, you are challenging that it is an opinion, and not a lie intended to get you to spend money at my bar. If you want to say I'm being defensive, fine.

The fact that you're saying for the first time ever that Oxbow makes the best farmhouse beers (in your opinion) right before an event will raise some eyebrows.

Not a fact. I've said it several times before. I believe I've stated it on FB, IG, on my podcast, and in face-to-face conversations with various people. Maybe elsewhere too.

If you think I'm being dishonest, then fine. I'll take the criticism seriously and think about how I can better portray my honest opinions.


FFS, I have events all the time and don't post about them here. Maybe I actually thought the users of this forum would appreciate knowing about the event? If a few more people come out will it help me? Sure. But not that much.
 
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I dont think the french or belgian saison makers started brewing this style of beer with intentions of making it unaprochable for the working man, but here we are paying dollars per ounce.

Who it really was brewed for.
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Thats not lambic or the beer I was referencing, and you completely missed the point I was making about saison traditionally being somewhat affordable but its nice to know that you keep a backlog of old posts that you disliked, because thats totally normal

If you weren’t referencing the 3F bottle I had, noted later on that page, then I’m sorry. Still I think your sentiment there about that lambic is still valid here.

To your other point, I believe we sell traditional saison like DuPont,Thiriez, and Blaugies for the same price now as the day we opened. I think I’m a bit confused. My bad.
 
Can we PLEASE ******* stop linking price to alcohol content?

I agree. Lambic is 4 the ppl and by the ppl
the 5% abv comment is solely a reference to its ability to be drank in decent quantities, and its summertime quaffability. In the sense that I'd rather not buy something at that price point when I'd want a larger glass than I would some underattenuated adjunct hype boi stout
I believe he was referring to this post: https://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/fib-war-room.1419/page-1198#post-1674526 not yours which was at the top of the page.

Ty this makes more sense
 
You aren't challenging the opinion, you are challenging that it is an opinion, and not a lie intended to get you to spend money at my bar. If you want to say I'm being defensive, fine.

I clearly called it your opinion more than once. I question the timing of stating said opinion on TB. I have zero information that would lead me to believe that is not your opinion. Can you just get off your high horse and have a normal conversation about a brewery? Not everything is a personal attack on your beliefs.
 
To be fair, you have to have a very high beer IQ to understand oxbow. The nuances of a saison are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of beer most of the nuances will go over a typical FIBs’ head. There's also Oxbow’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into every drop of beer - their personal philosophy draws heavily from aquatic geography, for instance. The true FIBs understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these nuances, to realize that they're not just barrels- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike oxbow truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Oxbows existencial catchphrase "We’re not only brewers and glorified janitors but also truck drivers.," which itself is a cryptic reference to the dystopian future of craft beer in a world full of robots. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Oxbow's genius unfolds itself in their Spigeleau glasses. What fools... how I pity them.
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And yes by the way, I DO have a oxbow tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
 
I clearly called it your opinion more than once. I question the timing of stating said opinion on TB. I have zero information that would lead me to believe that is not your opinion. Can you just get off your high horse and have a normal conversation about a brewery? Not everything is a personal attack on your beliefs.

Maxim, I'll admit to being defensive. But please try to see things from my side as well. I say all this with the assumption that as the owner of The Beer Temple, it is assumed that I want people to come to events held there.

Literally the first response to my statement about Oxbow being "top-tier" called into question my motives for making the statement, and that I was having trouble selling Oxbow beer and essentially needed to resort to over-hyping the brewery in hopes that my opinion would sway people.

You did mention my opinion more than once - every sing time with the caveat that it should looked at with suspicion:

"Not saying you shouldn't advertise here, but you're awful defensive about people challenging your opinion."

"I think you should expect that people will question your opinions on a beer when you are throwing an event for said brewery."

"The fact that you're saying for the first time ever that Oxbow makes the best farmhouse beers (in your opinion) right before an event will raise some eyebrows."

As to having a normal conversation about a brewery, that's exactly what I started to do. I mentioned why I felt what I did, and how I came to that opinion. I would prefer to continue down that path, as I am genuinely interested in the opinions of the members of this forum - as a beer drinker more than a retailer. I don't plan to be able to sell much of the breweries cited as making the best anytime soon.

So I will leave it there. Again, my apologies for being defensive. I feel what I feel about Oxbow, and I precisely because of that opinion I am having an event with them tomorrow - which they approached me about FWIW. I would love people to try the beers if they feel like it, and I truly, honestly think regardless of who is making the #1 farmhouse beer in the world right now, lovers of this style will enjoy the event. Plus the folks from the brewery will be here, and that doesn't happen very often.

So what do I do? Should I just ignore the insinuations that my opinions are invalidated because of my connection to the event? The vibe I'm getting is that I should have the event, but not tell people about it in a public forum (ahhh - now I see vav ) but at the same time, I've seen post upon post on here from people being happy when industry folks do just that.

For example, I am also having a Scratch event. I also really really admire those people. I will also make personal statements about how I feel about their beers. Will it be in the interest of self promotion? Partially I suppose, although I don't need any help selling their beers, and they will be bringing up some stuff that I think it really special - even for a bar that has them on all the time.

Maybe I should acknowledge that people are suspicious of the timing of the post, and apologize as well as acknowledge it?

Again, genuine questions here. What is the right way to go about this in your opinion? This goes out to everyone outside of Maxim too.
 
Again, genuine questions here. What is the right way to go about this in your opinion? This goes out to everyone outside of Maxim too.
In my opinion, you're already going about it in the correct fashion.

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to post here both about upcoming events in your space as well as your beer preferences.

Where I think you went wrong was in engaging with the posters who are skeptical of your intentions. Regardless of your intention for making a post, whether it be self-promotion or just shooting the ****, it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately, beer culture (even our society as a whole, I suppose) is currently in a state of outrage fetishism. Popular culture has created a generation of people who scour every facet of the world looking for anything to be upset about, and then blow even the smallest things out of proportion.

Probably the best advice both for the internet and in real life is "don't feed the trolls."
 
In my opinion, you're already going about it in the correct fashion.

I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to post here both about upcoming events in your space as well as your beer preferences.

Where I think you went wrong was in engaging with the posters who are skeptical of your intentions. Regardless of your intention for making a post, whether it be self-promotion or just shooting the ****, it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately, beer culture (even our society as a whole, I suppose) is currently in a state of outrage fetishism. Popular culture has created a generation of people who scour every facet of the world looking for anything to be upset about, and then blow even the smallest things out of proportion.

Probably the best advice both for the internet and in real life is "don't feed the trolls."

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