Fermzilla pressure ferment. Leave butterfly valve open during pressure fermentation or not?

[rtstrider]

Hey all! I just ordered the Fermzilla tri conical and will be playing with pressure fermentation right out of the gate. I've seen a morebeer video that states not to leave the butterfly valve open during pressure fermentation and the Kegland instructions just state to leave the butterfly valve open during fermentation (does not specify whether pressure or non pressure). Anyone out there have experience with one of these fermenters and pressure fermentation?

 

[Wayne1]

It depends on what pressure you are fermenting at. If you keep the total pressure at 1 bar (15 PSI) or less you should be good.

DO NOT close the valve with beer in the collection chamber part way through fermentation. The collection chamber cannot handle pressure above 17 PSI or so. For safety, add a pressure relief valve to the collection chamber. They can and have burst with too much pressure.

I like to use the system with the collection chamber open for primary fermentation. When gravity has reached terminal, I drop the temperature, close the valve, remove the collection chamber to remove all the yeast, add finings and maybe dry hops and put the chamber back on. Flush our the chamber with CO2 and then open the valve.

Good Luck!

 

[rtstrider]

It depends on what pressure you are fermenting at. If you keep the total pressure at 1 bar (15 PSI) or less you should be good.

DO NOT close the valve with beer in the collection chamber part way through fermentation. The collection chamber cannot handle pressure above 17 PSI or so. For safety, add a pressure relief valve to the collection chamber. They can and have burst with too much pressure.

I like to use the system with the collection chamber open for primary fermentation. When gravity has reached terminal, I drop the temperature, close the valve, remove the collection chamber to remove all the yeast, add finings and maybe dry hops and put the chamber back on. Flush our the chamber with CO2 and then open the valve.

Good Luck!

Thank you so much for that! I did order a ball lock fitting and prv valve for the collection chamber but for other reasons lol It was for purging the chamber for dry hopping and such. I don't plan on spunding any higher than 14 psi. Next question...If I spund at 14psi will there be any issue with cold crashing or do you think there will be enough positive pressure to prevent an implosion? I would be crashing to 30F-32F. If not I'm not opposed to having a dedicated co2 tank/regulator to keep pressure or even pressure transferring to a keg at room temp and crashing/fining in the keg.

 

[Wayne1]

I have no trouble dropping temperature with around 15 PSI on the fermenter. I can do it with as low as 7 PSI without any problems. It does help to have a CO2 tank close by for purging the collection chamber for dry hopping. After you have dropped the temperature, you can make up any pressure loss to reach your desired level of carbonation.

I pressure transfer cold with 15 psi on the fermenter and a spunding valve on the keg set to 10 psi. That seems to work out quite well.

 

[DuncB]

I fill the collection chamber with beer via a picnic/ party tap to brim with beer and foam before reattach after yeast dump.
I tend to leave prv open and lid loose at start of ferment then build pressure at end ferment.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Leave it open immediately after pitching / mixing the yeast. When you do close it make sure to remove the jar as there is no pressure relief valve and the yeast could still be actively fermenting.

Only time to really close that butterfly valve is when removing the jar to pull out the yeast

Also If you leave it closed at the beginning of fermentation then open later you will blow a whole bunch of air from the jar into the beer and oxidize the beer

The fermzilla is rated for 2.4 Bar (34.8 psi)

 

[rtstrider]

I'm on pressure lager fermentation number 2 now using a yeast repitch from the first ferment. This fermenter is awesome! I see what everyone is saying about lager pressure fermentation. I've been fermenting at 15psi (let the fermenter naturally rise to the pressure) at 64F temp controlled ambient air in the ferment fridge. I used some very expired WLP830 that was gifted from the LHBS and propped up on the stir plate using a stepped starter. Here's the method I used

Chill wort to 68F or lower prior to pumping/racking into the Fermzilla. Pour yeast slurry in first (probably doesn't matter if that's first or last) Make sure the butterfly valve is wide open. Lube up the gasket of the Fermzilla lid with Keg Lube, screw down tight, move to a temp controlled environment that's 64F ambient air (ferment fridge), put on the spunding valve (blowtie in my case) pre set to 15 psi, and wait for the pressure to naturally build up to 15 psi. These past two brews have fired right off and reached pressure/fully krausened within 12 hours. Another thing I've noticed is it seems to stop releasing pressure between 2 and a half to 3 days after yeast pitch. Aka it stays at 15 psi static pressure. On this first batch I pulled a gravity reading/taste at around 6 and a half to 7 days from the initial yeast pitch. It was done and as clean as it gets without proper cold conditioning! From that point the ferment fridge thermostat was set to be in the 32f-34f ambient air range (I just used the stock thermostat with a cheap fridge thermometer and bypassed the inkbird for this step). The brew was cold crashed for 4 days or so. I then pressure transferred over using a keg that was set to serving pressure. The gas in from the keg was connected to the gas in of the fermenter, the beer was coaxed through the liquid out of the fermenter until it just started coming out of the fitting. This was then connected to the liquid out of the keg and the pressure transfer began. It took about an hour to fully transfer over this way. Next step was warming 1/4 cup of campden treated filtered water to around 150F-ish, 1/2 tsp of gelatin was added, gently stirred in, this was added to the keg, keg was purged, and then it was hooked up to gas at serving pressure. This was done on 12/13 in the evening. It's definitely clearing and getting much better by the day and it should be fully carbonated/cleared by this weekend.

Now for the yeast harvesting steps I used. Once the beer was pressure transferred to the keg I cleaned/sanitized a 1 quart jar, lid, and ring. Pressure was released from the top of the fermenter, butterfly valve was closed off, then Star san got sprayed on the whole area where the tri clamp fitting sits. The tri clamp was undone, and the yeast/trub collection jar was sprayed with Star san again. The yeast/trub was a really thick gelatinous goo. This was dumped into the quart jar which filled it about halfway to three quarters full. I sprayed Star san around the quart jar again, sealed it off with the lid/ring, then wiped off the crud on the outside of the jar. This was then placed in the kegerator fridge until brew day which was 2 days later.

As far as using the trub jar for oxygen free dry hopping I'm not sure I can connect the trub jar on the unit right side up without an extra set of hands. The approach I plan on taking is just pressure fermenting, keg hopping with a keg hop tube (link below), and purging the keg with co2 prior to transferring the beer into the keg. If that does indeed make a difference then I'll probably invest in the dry hop kit for the Fermzilla but for now I'm happy with it the way it is.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/stainless-steel-hop-tube-chain.html
Hopefully this in depth post really helps answer any potential questions on the Fermzilla Gen 3.1 tri clamp.

 

[LloydGM]

I've been using a FermZilla All-Rounder for 2 years now and my process and results are as yours, minus the lower chamber. I brew successive Saturdays at 68F, mostly lagers, and they've all come out perfectly. At first, I rinsed my yeast cakes before pouring in the next batch's wort; after a while, I tried just skimming off the top of the slurry and pouring in the new wort, and I can't tell any difference in the final product. Nowadays, I just do 3 batches in a row w/o rinsing the yeast. Oh, and I always start with a 2x yeast starter for ales, 3x for lagers (1L water + 100g DME on Friday evening, add same amount Saturday morning, start 1st on Friday morning if doing a lager for a total of 3L + 300g DME). My fermentation is under pressure the whole time at 15 PSI and I also use the blowtie spunding valve.

I keep wanting to buy the tri-conical FermZilla, but my All Rounder just works so well. It's simple, always works, and every batch has been perfect. Oh, and I started pressure fermenting at batch 42, am drinking batch 103 atm, so I think this is a pretty good sample.
"This was then placed in the kegerator fridge until brew day which was 2 days later."
This is why I keep the FermZilla going the full week, no transferring & storing the yeast, and less risk as well. It's not that I'm lazy, I just prefer keeping things as simple as possible w/o risking the final product. I haven't ever seen a difference in fermentation cleaning my yeast & re-pitching vs. a quick skim & pouring the wort right on top of my yeast slurry; thus, it's hard for me to justify upgrading from my All Rounder. I might get the bigger one, though...

 

[rtstrider]

I've been using a FermZilla All-Rounder for 2 years now and my process and results are as yours, minus the lower chamber. I brew successive Saturdays at 68F, mostly lagers, and they've all come out perfectly. At first, I rinsed my yeast cakes before pouring in the next batch's wort; after a while, I tried just skimming off the top of the slurry and pouring in the new wort, and I can't tell any difference in the final product. Nowadays, I just do 3 batches in a row w/o rinsing the yeast. Oh, and I always start with a 2x yeast starter for ales, 3x for lagers (1L water + 100g DME on Friday evening, add same amount Saturday morning, start 1st on Friday morning if doing a lager for a total of 3L + 300g DME). My fermentation is under pressure the whole time at 15 PSI and I also use the blowtie spunding valve.

I keep wanting to buy the tri-conical FermZilla, but my All Rounder just works so well. It's simple, always works, and every batch has been perfect. Oh, and I started pressure fermenting at batch 42, am drinking batch 103 atm, so I think this is a pretty good sample.
"This was then placed in the kegerator fridge until brew day which was 2 days later."
This is why I keep the FermZilla going the full week, no transferring & storing the yeast, and less risk as well. It's not that I'm lazy, I just prefer keeping things as simple as possible w/o risking the final product. I haven't ever seen a difference in fermentation cleaning my yeast & re-pitching vs. a quick skim & pouring the wort right on top of my yeast slurry; thus, it's hard for me to justify upgrading from my All Rounder. I might get the bigger one, though...

Honestly think I'll probably bite the bullet and eventually upgrade to the stainless pressure ferment setups. In the meantime plan is to invest in more pressure stuffs...Aka another 20lb co2 tank, regulator, extra blowtie, the 1 micron reusable filter setup from Morebeer....Nukataps are still on the to do list also lol Pressure fermentation has been a definite game changer!