Fermentation loss with fruit puree

[gjolivo]

Hello all, I just completed a recipe for a mango milkshake ipa and it called for lactose, 6lbs of mangos (pureed, primary) and coconut flakes(secondary) plus dry hopping 6oz of hops. To avoid oxidation I kept everything in one vessel during fermentation. I used the 7.5g anvil bucket fermenter and tried doing a closed transfer to my keg. The transfer was going well until I hit the last 2ish gallons if not more. It was all just super murky beer so I stopped it there. This was a 5.5 gallon batch and I lost almost half my beer. How can I avoid this much loss when using fruit purees and dry hopping? Is it because I didn't transfer to an actual secondary?I also didn't do a cold crash which probably didn't help. But I was surprised at how much was lost. With normal IPAs (without fruit additions) or other beers using the same process I only has about a .5 gallon loss.

 

[hotbeer]

I don't understand what beer it is you said you lost or why.

Because it got murky and you threw it away? I'd think that after the new addition finished fermenting, most of the suspended stuff will eventually go to the bottom a week or so after it achieves it's FG.

I've never added puree to my FV though. So maybe I'm wrong about what goes on.

 

[day_trippr]

Well...there is a lot of cellular debris left behind after 6 pounds of fruit puree has fermented out, and that will try to hold on to quite a lot of beer. Then add 6 ounces of hops that will retain around a quart of beer on their own. I don't know that it would total to a couple of gallons, but then again, without a solid cold crash to drop the crud and allow the beer to sit on top, it's not unlikely.

I use a pound of raspberry puree per gallon in a fruited wheat beer and if I didn't do a hard crash I'm sure the bazillions of berry husks would retain a lot more beer...

Cheers!

 

[gjolivo]

Well...there is a lot of cellular debris left behind after 6 pounds of fruit puree has fermented out, and that will try to hold on to quite a lot of beer. Then add 6 ounces of hops that will retain around a quart of beer on their own. I don't know that it would total to a couple of gallons, but then again, without a solid cold crash to drop the crud and allow the beer to sit on top, it's not unlikely.

I use a pound of raspberry puree per gallon in a fruited wheat beer and if I didn't do a hard crash I'm sure the bazillions of berry husks would retain a lot more beer...

Cheers!

Yea i wish I would have cold crashed. Oh well, lesson learned.

 

[gjolivo]

I don't understand what beer it is you said you lost or why.

Because it got murky and you threw it away? I'd think that after the new addition finished fermenting, most of the suspended stuff will eventually go to the bottom a week or so after it achieves it's FG.

I've never added puree to my FV though. So maybe I'm wrong about what goes on.

After it finished fermenting I let it condition for 2 weeks. It had plenty of time to settle. The last 2 gallons were literally like liquid trub. I think what would of gotten more of the clear beer was cold crashing like the other reply mentioned. Normally I don't cold crash hazy ipas so didn't even think to do it.

 

[mashdar]

Did you heat the mango at all? Could be a pectin issue? (IDK if mango has much pectin.)

 

[day_trippr]

Mango is relatively low in pectin content, but it is there, and the yield could likely be improved by some degree by using pectinase at its working temperature to break down its cellular structure...

Cheers!

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Mango is relatively low in pectin content, but it is there, and the yield could likely be improved by some degree by using pectinase at its working temperature to break down its cellular structure...

Cheers!

I dug into the use of pectinase, is there any fruit it shouldn't be used with?

I use cherries or raspberries in some of my brews. My practice is to freeze the fruit, let it thaw to break down the cell walls, then add to the secondary. Could I extract more from the fruit using the pectin enzyme?

 

[hotbeer]

After it finished fermenting I let it condition for 2 weeks. It had plenty of time to settle. The last 2 gallons were literally like liquid trub. I think what would of gotten more of the clear beer was cold crashing like the other reply mentioned. Normally I don't cold crash hazy ipas so didn't even think to do it.

Two weeks after the initial ferment or two weeks after the puree finished fermenting? With beer I've made that had a lot of trub go into the FV, I found that the longer I left the beer in the FV the more compact the trub layer would get. So maybe two weeks wasn't enough.

But again, I'm only asking as I imagine one day I'll want to make some beers where I add puree.

I also don't care to cold crash. For the few times I've done it, I didn't find that it did anything better for the beer in the FV that just more time in the FV would do.

 

[day_trippr]

Could I extract more from the fruit using the pectin enzyme?

For raspberries, at least, absolutely, using pectinase will greatly increase yield by breaking the skins down.

I also don't care to cold crash. For the few times I've done it, I didn't find that it did anything better for the beer in the FV that just more time in the FV would do.

I agree with the equivalency but prefer the accelerated results...

Cheers!

 

[D the Catastrophist]

Mango is notorious for both taking forever to clear and leaving a mass of lees when making wine, so I assume if used in a beer has the same issues. The work around I have heard(not tried yet) is to use dried mango instead of fresh. But I am not sure with beer since it doesn't sit on the fruit as long, if it would still give the flavor you want.

If I am using mango or something I suspect does this, I make a larger batch in anticipation of losses.

 

[gjolivo]

Two weeks after the initial ferment or two weeks after the puree finished fermenting? With beer I've made that had a lot of trub go into the FV, I found that the longer I left the beer in the FV the more compact the trub layer would get. So maybe two weeks wasn't enough.

But again, I'm only asking as I imagine one day I'll want to make some beers where I add puree.

I also don't care to cold crash. For the few times I've done it, I didn't find that it did anything better for the beer in the FV that just more time in the FV would do.

2 weeks after everything finished fermenting. I tracked my fermentation with an ispindel.