Fastest way to carbonate cider?

[Garfield43]

OK I had a 2 gallon batch of cider that smelled off and tasted off. I tried to just persevere with it but it taste wrong. Like burnt caramel. I think it set too long and oxidized. I feared this might happen so on 8/23 I started another batch. I need somthing finished, carbonated and in a keg and cold by Saturday afternoon.

For carbonation I usually just add some apple juice concentrate and let it set 4 or 5 days. I do have CO2 and a keg now. Most reports I see claim force carbing takes 3 or 4 days if you don't have a stone or some other gimmick.

Ideally I would like to wait till the new batch has a gravity of 1.000 ish then cold crash it overnight, transfer that to the keg, then add the apple juice concentrate. I am just trying to figure out if the step after that is let it set at room temp until it is fizzy or hook up CO2 to it and take it out and roll it around every hour or so. Also I may be able to skip the cold crashing. I have installed a floating pick up tube. If it comes down to it I would rather bring somthing that taste good and looks cloudy than some beautiful thing that taste off.

I'm going to go look at the new batch and take a gravity reading.
Appreciate the thoughts from any of you who have had to finish a cider faster than you would have liked becase you screwed the other one up.
I can't be the only one who has done this right?
Thanks again.

Edit for additional information
Ok it is cloudy as all get out and has a gravity reading of what I estimate to be 1.001 I suspect that thousandth might well be due to yeast rather than sugar.

My thought is to let continue to ferment over night.
Tomorrow cold crash it than Tuesday keg it.
That gives me a couple of days to decide what I do with it once it has been kegged.
I am more than willing to adjust that time table if anyone has any suggestions.
Thanks again

 

[Garfield43]

OK change in schedule.
My cider usually ferments down to 1.000 -0.990.
I am not going to sweat that thousandth and call it done tonight and start cold crashing it. If it clears up over night I have bought enough time to carb it naturally (I hope).

 

[doublejef]

When I have time, for my keg, I put them under 3 bars - 3°C - 24h. When I don't have time, I put the keg a night at 3°C then plug the CO2, put 3 bars on it and shake the keg (or make it roll under my foot) during 2 or 3 minutes. Wait 15 minutes and it's ready to serve.

 

[Garfield43]

Thanks that's WAY faster than what I have read.
Thanks for the info!
Do you have to let it set at a lower pressure for a while before it is ready to serve?

 

[Newsman]

Another thing you can do is put the CO2 on the "out" post, put it on high pressure until it stops adding more gas to the keg, purge the keg and do it again. Oh, and it works better if your beverage is cold (maybe 40-50⁰ F.) Fill and purge several times, swap posts back to the normal and let sit overnight. May have to purge the keg a couple times when you go to serve.

 

[Garfield43]

Will that work with a floating dip tube?

I am hoping the floating tube helps me avoid dome of the yeast.

 

[Newsman]

Will that work with a floating dip tube?

I am hoping the floating tube helps me avoid dome of the yeast.

Hmmm. I don't know why it wouldn't work. That being said, I didn't even know that was thing.

 

[doublejef]

Do you have to let it set at a lower pressure for a while before it is ready to serve?

You have to let it rest like 15 min. I usually remove CO2 line but I'm not sure it's really needed.
The big advantage on cider to beer is it doesn't have much foam so it's easy to serve.

 

[Garfield43]

Thanks So Much for your help!

 

[Garfield43]

I have a big problem.
I set the CO2 to 3 bars, I set the fridge to a little coder than 3 c.
I let let it set for 26 hours.
I purged it down to 12 PSI let it set an hour and...
totally flat.
No bubbles.
I hooked it back up, took it out and rolled it back and forth for a couple minutes and put it back in the fridge.

What am I doing wrong?
I checked the pressure in the keg with a gauge it says 3 bar.
Having it colder that 3 c shouldn't hurt anything should it?
At the top of the keg it is 33F at the bottom it 43.
37 is 3 c.
Is that enough of a difference to make it totally flat?
How often should I agitate it seeing as how just letting it set isn't working?
Thanks again

 

[doublejef]

Are you sure your gas cylinder valve is well open? Does it stay open all the time? You let it plug on the keg during the all-time right?

For whatever reason, the CO2 is not coming into your keg during the all-time. Easiest way to check it is simply by shaking your keg with you CO2 connected, you must ear the sound of the gas coming out, like a pchhhhhht if not, there is something blocked somewhere in the line.

 

[Garfield43]

I left it plugged in to the keg all night.
Valve on the tank and on the regulator are opened all the way.
When I first connect it I hear the gas run in.
If I take the gas line off and connect my gauge the keg is at 3 bars of pressure.
Next time I take the keg out and rock it back and forth I will listen for gas flow.
I assume I should hear that at the regulator?
I don't see how anything could be plugged.
Co2 rushes in when I first connect it and it can come out of that port enough to move the needle on my gauge.
Would another way to test it be pulling on the relief valve and watching to see if the pressure came back up to 3 bars after I let go of the valve?

 

[Garfield43]

Should I try turning it up higher?

 

[Newsman]

I have a big problem.
I set the CO2 to 3 bars, I set the fridge to a little coder than 3 c.
I let let it set for 26 hours.
I purged it down to 12 PSI let it set an hour and...
totally flat.
No bubbles.
I hooked it back up, took it out and rolled it back and forth for a couple minutes and put it back in the fridge.

What am I doing wrong?
I checked the pressure in the keg with a gauge it says 3 bar.
Having it colder that 3 c shouldn't hurt anything should it?
At the top of the keg it is 33F at the bottom it 43.
37 is 3 c.
Is that enough of a difference to make it totally flat?
How often should I agitate it seeing as how just letting it set isn't working?
Thanks again

So the "set and forget" method of carbonating takes awhile. Simply putting it on higher pressure won't cause it to carb faster. IF you are trying to carb it fast, try putting the gas on the output line and bubble it through the brew. You should bubble gas through your beverage until it stops accepting any more gas into the keg, remove the gas, purge the keg and repeat several time (oh, and I'm assuming it's already cold.)

 

[doublejef]

Lower the temp, quicker the carb.
Higher the pressure, quicker the carb
Bigger the contact surface between gas and liquid, quicker the carb (so if you put your keg horizontally it will go faster than vertically)

All this parameter have an impact but - 3°C - 24H - 3 bar - keg vertical will give you a good result if everything is working well. I did it like hundred time.
Now I have less time, more keg to do and not enough place in my fridge so I use the "roll under my feet" method.

 

[Garfield43]

Ok I have been rolling this under my feet for a minute or every couple of hours. I will keep doing that and check it later.
Thanks!

 

[Newsman]

Ok I have been rolling this under my feet for a minute or every couple of hours. I will keep doing that and check it later.
Thanks!

Do you have your CO2 plugged into the liquid port? That adds to the surface area exposed to the gas when it bubbles through your cider/beer

 

[Garfield43]

I tried it just a minute ago.
After 2 days on the C02 and me rolling it around every other hour or so on the 2nd day I have a bunch of foam that goes away and leaves mostly flat cider.
I assume the problem it my fridge isn't cold enough.
I have moved the gas to the liquid port.
I have also turned the keg sideways with the liquid port down, raised the keg up so it is in the middle of the fridge instead on the bottom and removed the freezer door.
The freezer is at the top and will make ice but it is about 45 degrees at the bottom.
Every time I pull the keg and roll it a round it takes the fridge a while to get cold again.
Would I be better off to after hooking up to the liquid port just letting it set all night then try rolling it around in the morning?
I don't know what the bigger problem is, lack of agitation or temp.
I suspect the temp is the bigger issue.

Thanks again!

 

[Newsman]

Yeah. I'd leave it hooked to the liquid port overnight, and then purge and refill.

 

[Garfield43]

Should I roll it around after refilling?

 

[Newsman]

Probably a good idea. Purge, refill and wait till the bubbling stops, them put it back in the fridge for another 6-8 hours, minimum

 

[doublejef]

After 2 days on the C02 and me rolling it around every other hour or so on the 2nd day I have a bunch of foam that goes away and leaves mostly flat cider.

Your cider is already probably over carbonated, not flat at all. If there is too much pression the cider comes out too fast and only foams goes in the glass. It goes directly flat because it's like shaked.
How do you serve it? what kind of tap do you have?

 

[Garfield43]

I have a Perlick flow control. It just snaps on to the keg with one of those faucet to quick disconnect adaptors.
Hopefully by next year I will have one of my jockey boxes working.
The BBQ was Saturday. It came out really foamy even after setting for hours but when it died down there were bubbles in the cider.

I have to say the cider was met with roaring indifference. Other than what I drank I think I served about 4 ounces. It wound up tasting OK, not my best batch but not my worst. My friend who tasted it said he picked up a vinegar smell, no taste just smell. This may be enough to make me buy some Starsan I have just been using water, bleach and vinegar as recommended by Starsan inventor Charlie Talley. I didn't pick up the smell but it is possible others have better senses than I do.

In case someone reads this whole ordeal in the future, I defrosted my mini fridge and that brought the temp down from mid 40s in the middle to 36 degrees. It didn't have much ice so I didn't think it would make a difference. I was wrong.

Hopefully next year I plan things better and have time to naturally carb and time to let the yeast settle out better.

Thanks for your help everyone!
At least I was able to show up with somthing and now I have most of 2 gallons of cider and a couple of bottles of Evan Williams Fire Cinnamon Whiskey for my self. I prefer Evan Williams Fire to Fireball and it makes a nice apple cinnamon drink mixed with the cider.

Now that I have the real thing to compare to I will work on making my own cinnamon whiskey (starting with store bought whiskey, calm down revenue agents). There are several recipes on line for "homemade Fireball". I omit the peppers becase I just want the cinnamon flavor not the harsh burn. I tried making a small batch before and it was close but no cigar.

 

[jseyfert3]

Two weeks, crazy fast! I don’t think I’ve ever tried a batch of mine before a month. Basically once it clears up which is a month to a month and a half. Some sits much longer before I get to it.

My current oldest I’m trying malolactic, I believe I pitched the malolactic bacteria in January, and it was a month and a half or so before that. So coming up on a year now.

I’ve had decent success fast force carbing by setting the regulator to 35 psi or so and shaking the warm leg (right after I filled and purged it) a LOT. Until it seems like the gas flow when shaking has slowed down. Then drop pressure to serving and drop the keg in to cool. I did this one afternoon and served the next day around noon. Not quite as carbonated as usual but it was fast.